Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #67 *Appeal Verdict*

[jilly]

Since Massipa seems bias. I truly hope that the court doesn't allow her to sentence him again. Jmo

I think our only hope is that she declines. Any reason would be good for me.

 

[Ochre Blue]

Lenience for his disability? isn't Oscar the one who carried an almost dead adult woman down a flight of stairs no less?? In my eyes I just don't see him as disabled. Of course he doesn't want to be locked up but too bad so said. Killing some one the way he did, I do not feel sorry for him
at all. JMO

And OP wanted to NOT be viewed as disabled - competed in the able-bodied Olympics!
Can't have it both ways!

 

[Ochre Blue]

BIB Hi Tortoise,
I posted this earlier in the year as I thought it was amazingly accurate birth chart interpretation considering it was again just days after the murder. ( Incidentally How refreshing is it to say murder instead of killing! )
Appreciate astro is minority interest - but for anyone with experience/interest in birth chart analysis.....TBH it is nearly two decades since I was able to fully understand all the complexities of all the planetary factors myself, but I can see it's a very competent analysis.

http://www.exeterastrologygroup.org.uk/2013/02/oscar-pistorius_16.html

Thank you very much!
Utterly fascinating!

 

[Ochre Blue]

Thank you! So what's the difference between appearing voluntarily and a warrant that wasn't enforced in the first place?

This "boy" continues to be handled with kid gloves.

And that's the nub of OP problem - total lack of responsibility for his actions!
As a teacher I would often see this with teens who'd been acting up.

 

[Ochre Blue]

Can anybody explain why on earth a convicted murderer like OP was't put straight into jail following the conviction in the SCA.
Why on earth is the SA justice system waiting for a time when OP can apply for bail.
Why on earth would they not jail him pronto and then allow other legal processes to occur, with OP in jail. Issues re bail, appeal, sentencing etc can all proceed with OP incarcerated .... Surely!
Surely a convicted murderer like OP wouldn't get bail?
As a convicted murderer surely his sentence will ultimately involve jail time.
What IS going on here? I totally don't get it!!!! Am I alone in this?

 

[mister happy]

Can anybody explain why on earth a convicted murderer like OP was't put straight into jail following the conviction in the SCA.
Why on earth is the SA justice system waiting for a time when OP can apply for bail.
Why on earth would they not jail him pronto and then allow other legal processes to occur, with OP in jail. Issues re bail, appeal, sentencing etc can all proceed with Op incarcerated .... Surely!
Surely a convicted murderer like OP wouldn't get bail?
As a convicted murderer surely his sentence will ultimately involve jail time.
What IS going on here? I totally don't get it!!!! Am I alone in this?

You're not alone. And I thought the U.S. justice system was funky.

 

[L2L]

Can anybody explain why on earth a convicted murderer like OP was't put straight into jail following the conviction in the SCA.
Why on earth is the SA justice system waiting for a time when OP can apply for bail.
Why on earth would they not jail him pronto and then allow other legal processes to occur, with OP in jail. Issues re bail, appeal, sentencing etc can all proceed with OP incarcerated .... Surely!
Surely a convicted murderer like OP wouldn't get bail?
As a convicted murderer surely his sentence will ultimately involve jail time.
What IS going on here? I totally don't get it!!!! Am I alone in this?

You're far from being alone, Ochre Blue! I've been asking the same questions here since the SCA verdict and still no answer!

 

[Madeleine74]

What is the absolute minimum amount of real jail time OP could get?

 

[Ochre Blue]

You're not alone. And I thought the U.S. justice system was funky.

Here in Australia, when the narcissist Gerard Baden-Clay finally ran out of legal options & was convicted of murdering his wife Alison, it was straight to jail for him. No 'by your leave, please may we' or anything ridiculous like that. I thought jail for a convicted murderer would apply straight away in any country with the rule of law.
The GBH case bore some similarities to the OP case.

 

[krkrjx]

Can anybody explain why on earth a convicted murderer like OP was't put straight into jail following the conviction in the SCA.
Why on earth is the SA justice system waiting for a time when OP can apply for bail.
Why on earth would they not jail him pronto and then allow other legal processes to occur, with OP in jail. Issues re bail, appeal, sentencing etc can all proceed with OP incarcerated .... Surely!
Surely a convicted murderer like OP wouldn't get bail?
As a convicted murderer surely his sentence will ultimately involve jail time.
What IS going on here? I totally don't get it!!!! Am I alone in this?

I am not familiar with any other case in SA courts so cannot speak with any knowledge about what goes on there as the norm but what I have seen happen with this particular case leads me to believe this murderer has received and continues to receive special consideration because of who he is. IOW, the powers that be are star struck.

IMO.

 

[krkrjx]

I had read (sorry, cannot recall where) that the minimum sentence for this crime is 15 years and that a person cannot serve more than 5 of those years as house arrest. So that leaves 10 years he would be expected to actually serve, minus time already served.

But I think that is for regular people. For Oscar, I will not be surprised if the law is given special interpretation.

 

[JudgeJudi]

James Grant ‏@JamesGrantZA · Dec 5  South Africa
The Constitutional Court may hear both Constitutional matters and "any other matter" (s 167(3), esp 167(3)(b)(ii)).

(ii) any other matter, if the Constitutional Court grants leave to appeal on the grounds that the matter raises an arguable point of law of general importance which ought to be considered by that court; and


Barry Bateman Retweeted
Eyewitness News ‏@ewnupdates · 1h1 hour ago

NPA to secure warrant of arrest for Oscar Pistorius today
http://dlvr.it/CxLZmw

 

[Val1]

What is the absolute minimum amount of real jail time OP could get?

JudgeJudi had posted here about it:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-67-*Appeal-Verdict*&p=12225865#post12225865

from http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/124f0d804ad03cdabd36bf2f1282c98c/-

"The minimum sentence for a first offence of murder is 15 years’ imprisonment. This is the shortest sentence Pistorius can expect unless he can prove that there are “substantial and compelling circumstances” for a lesser sentence. But the court will need to be convinced that:

his particular circumstances render the minimum prescribed sentence unjust; and

it would be disproportionate to the crime, the accused’s personal circumstances and the needs of society.

But the court is unlikely to deviate from the minimum prescribed sentence lightly. Whatever sentence Pistorius gets, he will, at the very least, serve two-thirds of it."

I guess it all depends on the family's influence....

 

[JudgeJudi]

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter · 2h2 hours ago  Johannesburg, South Africa
#OscarPistorius NPA has secured warrant of arrest for Pistorius to ensure he appears in court tomorrow for a bail application

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter · 56m56 minutes ago  Johannesburg, South Africa
#OscarPistorius The warrant of arrest will not mean the athlete will be arrested

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter · 55m55 minutes ago  Johannesburg, South Africa
#OscarPistorius Besides the bail application - the court will also set a date for sentencing arguments

 

[krkrjx]

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter · 2h2 hours ago  Johannesburg, South Africa
#OscarPistorius NPA has secured warrant of arrest for Pistorius to ensure he appears in court tomorrow for a bail application

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter · 56m56 minutes ago  Johannesburg, South Africa
#OscarPistorius The warrant of arrest will not mean the athlete will be arrested

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter · 55m55 minutes ago  Johannesburg, South Africa
#OscarPistorius Besides the bail application - the court will also set a date for sentencing arguments

It bothers me that a reporter is referring to him as the athlete. That gives him status that he no longer deserves. They should be calling him what he is--convicted murderer.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman · 12h12 hours ago
The pars in the Pistorius judgment which stand out for me

 

[Ochre Blue]

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/9b8201...cussion-with-Pistoriuss-defence-team-20151206

So, NPA lawyers are discussing with Pistorius' defence team to find a 'suitable date' for OP to return to court for a bail hearing.

Nothing mentioned about an arrest to return OP to jail.

Which other convicted criminal has enjoyed the luxury of 'discussions to find a suitable date for their return to court' for a bail hearing.

Return OP to jail pronto.... If he then needs to be in court for a bail hearing, transport him to court from jail, like any other criminal convicted of murder.

Enough with the shilly-shallying and treating OP with kid gloves... He's a murderer!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

OMG:

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/osca...legalising-disability-discrimination-20151207


Oscar Pistorius: Is the actions of the SCA effectively legalising Disability Discrimination?

The fact that Oscar was on his stumps was according to the SCA of no consequence. To make such a determination is in direct contradiction to its own equality legislation. The SCA therefore in my opinion, in issuing this judgement have violated the legislation the are duty bound to uphold, enshrine and lead by example. Their ruling also sets a precedent that disability can never be considered a factor in a crime. It endorses the position in law that a person without legs effectively has the same level of mobility as a person who is able bodied, that a person without legs can not be considered in any way to be more vulnerable than a person with full mobility.

The SCA determined that Oscar was responsible for the murder of a person whose identity was unknown to Oscar. They further determined that the assumption that this person may be dangerous was an irrational assumption on Oscar's part. Using the same reasonable man test it would imply that a blind person would be viewed the same as a fully sighted person.

............. and much more .....

 

[mhiforme]

OMG:

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/osca...legalising-disability-discrimination-20151207


Oscar Pistorius: Is the actions of the SCA effectively legalising Disability Discrimination?

The fact that Oscar was on his stumps was according to the SCA of no consequence. To make such a determination is in direct contradiction to its own equality legislation. The SCA therefore in my opinion, in issuing this judgement have violated the legislation the are duty bound to uphold, enshrine and lead by example. Their ruling also sets a precedent that disability can never be considered a factor in a crime. It endorses the position in law that a person without legs effectively has the same level of mobility as a person who is able bodied, that a person without legs can not be considered in any way to be more vulnerable than a person with full mobility.

The SCA determined that Oscar was responsible for the murder of a person whose identity was unknown to Oscar. They further determined that the assumption that this person may be dangerous was an irrational assumption on Oscar's part. Using the same reasonable man test it would imply that a blind person would be viewed the same as a fully sighted person.

............. and much more .....

My gut tells me this may still go to the constitutional court and OP may just have his verdict dropped down to CH due to his disability.

When the SCA overturned Masipa's ruling and said this was murder, most on this board were pleased with the new verdict and said that 5 learned judges made the right decision.

If the CC was to overturn the SCA verdict based upon disability, I'm wondering if people would accept the ruling of this group of learned judges?

 

[L2L]

My gut tells me this may still go to the constitutional court and OP may just have his verdict dropped down to CH due to his disability.

When the SCA overturned Masipa's ruling and said this was murder, most on this board were pleased with the new verdict and said that 5 learned judges made the right decision.

If the CC was to overturn the SCA verdict based upon disability, I'm wondering if people would accept the ruling of this group of learned judges?

Yes, I wouldn't like it and I'd probably rave and rant for a bit, but if the CC is higher court of appeal than the SCA I would accept their ruling, just as I would have accepted CH had that been the verdict of the SCA.