Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #67 *Appeal Verdict*

[cottonweaver]

Wow, talk about manipulation.
" 'I can’t think about anything else right now apart from what’s coming up next for me, it’s big.'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...just-days-convicted-murder.html#ixzz3tNZww1ua

Sounds to me like OP was rounding up his troops in the event there was a retrial, or at best, using emotional blackmail to guilt those who had betrayed him into improving his mitigation chances by way of his new mantra that he might "‘do something stupid’" to replace the old one of I thought she was a burglar to convince his supporters that he deserves better than prison because "He kept talking about how hard prison had been for him". It seems OP thinks prison shouldn't be any harder than his normal life....


Apparently it's working too... "Yesterday, after South Africa’s Supreme Court of Appeal dramatically overturned Pistorius’ manslaughter conviction and found him guilty of murdering Reeva instead, Lerena tried to phone him and sent a message of support."

Completely agree Val, I think this is a part of a "set-up" and that Lerena may have been given the OK that he can speak with the media. ( Can't see Lerena not informing OP he had been approached for interview.)
It's corroborating a suicidal state of mind and the timing of the interview is very coincidental but it's not scripted.
At first I believed it, now just think we are being manipulated again It's like the tears/bucket again at the bail hearing, striking initially, then later very transparent.

Not sure that OP was considering there might be a re-trial,as you say, but do think he knew he might need to use some people to present information about how devastated he is in order to build some sympathy and he obviously can't use family members as that would be too obvious.
The fact about OP feeling betrayed by all his friends including Lerena, sucked me in when I first saw the article but then the penny dropped. No such thing as too cynical when dealing with OP's fight against justice.

"‘so low and without anything to live for', "terrified", ‘do something stupid’, "given up on life", don’t think he will be able to handle it," 'I know they don’t let them have anything in jail that they can harm themselves with, but, you know, this is South Africa, and you can buy stuff you want, even in jail.’ how low he felt, how tired he was. " 'He has obviously been completely broken by it. He seemed despondent ", 'He really sounded in pain about it. He said he thought about her all the time." it’s as if he has lost all interest in the things "

No, I don't think Lerena is aware he has been used.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iend-betrayed-just-days-convicted-murder.html

 

[Colin de France]

Or not. Here in the US,for example, there is a very well known case in which a homeowner, hearing noises on the first floor of his house, walked half way down the stairs and shot repeatedly towards the noise, killing one of three underaged kids who had broken in to steal from him. The kids were unarmed. They didn't think he was home.

So....the homeowner wasn't charged with any crime at all, but two of the kids who had broken in were charged and convicted of murder. Go figure.

....yes, we've had similar situations here in France.......just for the info things works different here, once a case is in the system it doesn't always get to court and i think in certain situations it would find it's way onto a shelf for a very long time .......

 

[Tortoise]

Completely agree Val, I think this is a part of a "set-up" and that Lerena may have been given the OK that he can speak with the media. ( Can't see Lerena not informing OP he had been approached for interview.)
It's corroborating a suicidal state of mind and the timing of the interview is very coincidental but it's not scripted.
At first I believed it, now just think we are being manipulated again It's like the tears/bucket again at the bail hearing, striking initially, then later very transparent.

Not sure that OP was considering there might be a re-trial,as you say, but do think he knew he might need to use some people to present information about how devastated he is in order to build some sympathy and he obviously can't use family members as that would be too obvious.
The fact about OP feeling betrayed by all his friends including Lerena, sucked me in when I first saw the article but then the penny dropped. No such thing as too cynical when dealing with OP's fight against justice.



No, I don't think Lerena is aware he has been used.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iend-betrayed-just-days-convicted-murder.html

I think you've hit the nail on the head cottonweaver.

He has to get the message out there somehow. If the professional therapy he is having isn't working, they need to get him sectioned soonest, for his own protection of course. Or isn't it quite that bad? :thinking:

 

[geevee]

Hi Geevee! Never did think there was any reliable evidence of any fight at all, much less one that would lead OP to killing Reeva in cold blood. Still don't.

Laws are different in SA as I came to learn. If he wasn't allowed to shoot through a closed door no matter what, even if he thought a burglar was hiding in there, and even if he feared for his life, and if shooting in those circumstances means he committed murder according to SA law, then he's a murderer.

Still very different than saying he meant to kill Reeva. Don't think that he did. In the most meaningful way that doesn't make the outcome any different, as he DID kill her.

Hiya Hope! With the totality of evidence, her stomach contents, the fans, the damage to the tub surround and bedroom door, her jeans on the floor as well as those outside the window, the apparently change in aiming after the first shot fired, not to mention all of the ear witnesses reporting nearly the same things at the same times, I do think there's plenty of evidence of a fight/argument. Compiled with that his explanations that make little sense at all, if you're so worried about your safety and security in a walled and gated community, do you sleep with fans going on the balcony and sliding glass door wide open? Do you allow your handyman to leave ladders below windows? Do you tell varying versions of why you shot someone while testifying? I just don't think so.

We're of the same mind in many areas )) but in this one I do think he let his anger get the best of him and he killed her with intention. I do believe he regretted that almost immediately but I'm not quite sure of the reason for his remorse, that her life was ended at his hand or his own life was obliterated by his own hand.

 

[soozieqtips]

Completely agree Val, I think this is a part of a "set-up" and that Lerena may have been given the OK that he can speak with the media. ( Can't see Lerena not informing OP he had been approached for interview.)
It's corroborating a suicidal state of mind and the timing of the interview is very coincidental but it's not scripted.
At first I believed it, now just think we are being manipulated again It's like the tears/bucket again at the bail hearing, striking initially, then later very transparent.

Not sure that OP was considering there might be a re-trial,as you say, but do think he knew he might need to use some people to present information about how devastated he is in order to build some sympathy and he obviously can't use family members as that would be too obvious.
The fact about OP feeling betrayed by all his friends including Lerena, sucked me in when I first saw the article but then the penny dropped. No such thing as too cynical when dealing with OP's fight against justice.

No, I don't think Lerena is aware he has been used.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iend-betrayed-just-days-convicted-murder.html

BIB - the only people betrayed were Reeva and her family through OP's repeated lies and attempts to wriggle out of any responsibility. He tried to put pressure on a friend not to give evidence even though he'd been subpoenaed. Not so hard to understand why Frank (the guy he screamed at for some minor 'offence') never showed up to give evidence. If OP felt entitled to intimidate a friend, imagine how much more entitled he'd feel to intimidate an employee. OP will do anything to save himself. That's the kind of guy he is.

 

[Hope4More]

Hiya Hope! With the totality of evidence, her stomach contents, the fans, the damage to the tub surround and bedroom door, her jeans on the floor as well as those outside the window, the apparently change in aiming after the first shot fired, not to mention all of the ear witnesses reporting nearly the same things at the same times, I do think there's plenty of evidence of a fight/argument. Compiled with that his explanations that make little sense at all, if you're so worried about your safety and security in a walled and gated community, do you sleep with fans going on the balcony and sliding glass door wide open? Do you allow your handyman to leave ladders below windows? Do you tell varying versions of why you shot someone while testifying? I just don't think so.

We're of the same mind in many areas )) but in this one I do think he let his anger get the best of him and he killed her with intention. I do believe he regretted that almost immediately but I'm not quite sure of the reason for his remorse, that her life was ended at his hand or his own life was obliterated by his own hand.

We could go through each of those points one by one. I'm 100% positive of two things if we did:

1. That we could and would have a respectful exchange of ideas and listen well enough to each other to each have a slightly different point of view at the end.

2. That neither of us would change our minds about the bottom line conclusions we've reached after a lot of research and discussion.

It's all good.

 

[geevee]

We could go through each of those points one by one. I'm 100% positive of two things if we did:

1. That we could and would have a respectful exchange of ideas and listen well enough to each other to each have a slightly different point of view at the end.

2. That neither of us would change our minds about the bottom line conclusions we've reached after a lot of research and discussion.

It's all good.

Ditto x 3

 

[jilly]

...i go along with that except killing someone in cold blood unarmed behind a door needs more than a domestic dispute......i'm sure there's something more.....

How can you be sure about that? Perhaps you meant to say, you'd like there to be more?

I'm willing to give you the benefit of doubt by saying (from your post), you appear to be naive on the topic of domestic violence. I'm not here to lecture or educate you.

To me, on the face of it, there was enough evidence at trial which showed Oscar's true colors. He had a history of reckless behavior which he kept getting away with. No doubt, he thought he could get away with it again. He had an uncontrollable temper...and a gun - not a good combination. This time, unfortunately, he went too far and got caught.

 

[possumheart]

Excuse my naivety. I was speaking to someone who comes from SA and she said it is OK by law to shoot an intruder with intent to kill if they are in your house in SA ... so now I am a bit confused. Is this why the first verdict was seen as acceptable at the time?

 

[Val1]

Hiya Hope! With the totality of evidence, her stomach contents, the fans, the damage to the tub surround and bedroom door, her jeans on the floor as well as those outside the window, the apparently change in aiming after the first shot fired, not to mention all of the ear witnesses reporting nearly the same things at the same times, I do think there's plenty of evidence of a fight/argument. Compiled with that his explanations that make little sense at all, if you're so worried about your safety and security in a walled and gated community, do you sleep with fans going on the balcony and sliding glass door wide open? Do you allow your handyman to leave ladders below windows? Do you tell varying versions of why you shot someone while testifying? I just don't think so.

We're of the same mind in many areas )) but in this one I do think he let his anger get the best of him and he killed her with intention. I do believe he regretted that almost immediately but I'm not quite sure of the reason for his remorse, that her life was ended at his hand or his own life was obliterated by his own hand.

That's not even going into the background of the day. OP's "babyshoes" call minutes before getting home that evening, their ongoing conversations that day about RS leaving by such and such a time with her delays while trying to finish her speech(seemed to me like she was fishing for OP to invite her to do something special for either that night or the next day) and laundry and OP's seemingly offhand comeback that she could stay if she liked with her finally responding to the effect that no worries don't put yourself out she'd go.

All this the night before their first Valentine Day where they hadn't made any plans to spend it together and then no testimony on how they spent any intimate time together(the only sexual activity reported was that someone had been looking at sites while OP was in the bath and RS cooking dinner), but instead spent the evening with OP allegedly advising RS about her upcoming modelling contract and then looking at vehicles on their ipads/laptops while having a cuppa ... the only somewhat intimate act they apparently shared was RS calling him to come and brush his teeth at bedtime.

 

[soozieqtips]

Excuse my naivety. I was speaking to someone who comes from SA and she said it is OK by law to shoot an intruder with intent to kill if they are in your house in SA ... so now I am a bit confused. Is this why the first verdict was seen as acceptable at the time?

Unless the intruder poses an actual threat, ie, is advancing towards you with a weapon, it is not okay by law to shoot with intent to kill. In OP's case, the 'threat' was a noise behind a closed door and had never actually materialised.

 

[44ALLAN]

Just watched the final verdict on youtube for the first time..................
Wow.
Justice Leach all alone( where are the other 4?). and complaining from the start about his voice/bad cold lol but only stopped for a drink twice in the 56 mins he spoke..........bravo mate I'm impressed .

Rational/common sense big in the verdict..................................yeah !.
I knew that.....................crime scene photos were crucial but ignored ffs.
Mangena/bedroom pics etc........................fans/jeans doors /blood trail etc.....................ignored by the bench.

Trial judge and her assessors should be on the checkouts at Asda in my opinion but what the heck do I know eh !

I need to let go but hate reading that he'll be back home in less than 5 year........................that can't be right it just can't be !!

 

[soozieqtips]

That's not even going into the background of the day. OP's "babyshoes" call minutes before getting home that evening, their ongoing conversations that day about RS leaving by such and such a time with her delays while trying to finish her speech(seemed to me like she was fishing for OP to invite her to do something special for either that night or the next day) and laundry and OP's seemingly offhand comeback that she could stay if she liked with her finally responding to the effect that no worries don't put yourself out she'd go.

All this the night before their first Valentine Day where they hadn't made any plans to spend it together and then no testimony on how they spent any intimate time together(the only sexual activity reported was that someone had been looking at sites while OP was in the bath and RS cooking dinner), but instead spent the evening with OP allegedly advising RS about her upcoming modelling contract and then looking at vehicles on their ipads/laptops while having a cuppa ... the only somewhat intimate act they apparently shared was RS calling him to come and brush his teeth at bedtime.

BIB - do you remember OP saying for Valentine's Day that he'd ordered Reeva an (invisible) charm for a bracelet he'd bought her earlier in the year? I don't think it was ever picked up. I'd have liked Nel to have asked where he ordered it from. My guess is he never ordered it in the first place and it was yet another lie.

 

[possumheart]

Unless the intruder poses an actual threat, ie, is advancing towards you with a weapon, it is not okay by law to shoot with intent to kill. In OP's case, the 'threat' was a noise behind a closed door and had never actually materialised.

Thanks soosieqtips I figured something had been lost in translation in that conversation.

 

[Tortoise]

That's not even going into the background of the day. OP's "babyshoes" call minutes before getting home that evening, their ongoing conversations that day about RS leaving by such and such a time with her delays while trying to finish her speech(seemed to me like she was fishing for OP to invite her to do something special for either that night or the next day) and laundry and OP's seemingly offhand comeback that she could stay if she liked with her finally responding to the effect that no worries don't put yourself out she'd go.

All this the night before their first Valentine Day where they hadn't made any plans to spend it together and then no testimony on how they spent any intimate time together(the only sexual activity reported was that someone had been looking at sites while OP was in the bath and RS cooking dinner), but instead spent the evening with OP allegedly advising RS about her upcoming modelling contract and then looking at vehicles on their ipads/laptops while having a cuppa ... the only somewhat intimate act they apparently shared was RS calling him to come and brush his teeth at bedtime.

Funny, because I was just going to post something along these lines Val. It's not so much what happened because no one was there to be able to fill in that detail for us, but what didn't happen. No intimacy between this young couple still in the honeymoon period of their relationship? Tucked up in bed with a hot drink? It says a lot to me.

 

[soozieqtips]

Just watched the final verdict on youtube for the first time..................
Wow.
Justice Leach all alone( where are the other 4?). and complaining from the start about his voice/bad cold lol but only stopped for a drink twice in the 56 mins he spoke..........bravo mate I'm impressed .

Rational/common sense big in the verdict..................................yeah !.
I knew that.....................crime scene photos were crucial but ignored ffs.
Mangena/bedroom pics etc........................fans/jeans doors /blood trail etc.....................ignored by the bench.

Trial judge and her assessors should be on the checkouts at Asda in my opinion but what the heck do I know eh !

I need to let go but hate reading that he'll be back home in less than 5 year........................that can't be right it just can't be !!

BIB - no it's not. Not considering the lengths he went to in order to avoid assuming responsibility for his actions. But it's better than him lounging about in luxury at Uncle Arnie's and at least now everyone knows what he is - a convicted murderer.

 

[44ALLAN]

Excuse my naivety. I was speaking to someone who comes from SA and she said it is OK by law to shoot an intruder with intent to kill if they are in your house in SA ... so now I am a bit confused. Is this why the first verdict was seen as acceptable at the time?

You need to follow the earlier part of the trial possum to be fair.

Oscar was trained to use a firearm and his training included what he,as a firearm user, could and couldn't do/to be basic.
Read up on that first then come back or you'll just get confused

 

[44ALLAN]

BIB - no it's not. Not considering the lengths he went to in order to avoid assuming responsibility for his actions. But it's better than him lounging about in luxury at Uncle Arnie's and at least now everyone knows what he is - a convicted murderer.

Hi sooz.................here's hoping he does the same time for his actions as anyone else with his conviction would do.
Nothing more nothing less but no preferential treatment.

He knew it was her tho.......................................................

 

[mister happy]

---Snipped---

I need to let go but hate reading that he'll be back home in less than 5 year........................that can't be right it just can't be !!

Wait! Where did you read that he will be back home in less than 5 years? Is this true?

 

[Cherwell]

I'm just waiting for the accusations that RS was the intruder/burglar.... though so far the only evidence of theft has been by OP's own siblings(removal of crime scene evidence, RS's purse, who knows what else). Maybe OP's sis will come forward claiming to have found some of OP's stuff in RS's stolen purse... :facepalm:

BIB Weren't the very first reports something just like that? That she'd turned up unexpectedly to surprise him? Suppose they soon realised that version wouldn't stand up ...