Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

[cottonweaver]

I don't think she'll seriously consult Judges working still in the Court system in SA
I think she has someone she can consult though if she wants, i think it's like a Legal Guru, i think she will be very very careful this time to get it right, but really p*ssed that she has had her previous conviction overturned by SCA, that can't sit easy with her.

BIB mmm very astute.

I'd always mentioned a "mentor" but never thought they may be out of the system.
I hope this guru isn't you know who .....

 

[cottonweaver]

We have written an open letter to Barry Roux to ask him some questions about his conduct in court. Read here

Hi Calvin, Thanks for this link and your book was great BTW, heartily recommend it. ( Reckon Roux put his hourly rate up after Trial 1! )

Anyway, what's your view as to why an enterprising journalist has still not tracked down Frank's location before now?

It's always surprised me that that the lure of the £scoop on that has not led to him being found - even if it's only to end up with a door slammed in the journalist's face.
Our devious and resourceful British press would be onto that story quicker than flies on the proverbial.
Are the press really that diff in SA or has someone already tried and given up?

Obviously we all expect him to be "protected" possibly in a job just outside of SA, and shielded as much as possible - but even still some dogged news hound usually get's as far as that in these sorts of cases, especially given the 2 years to find him . ( Naturally I wouldn't expect Frank to be willing to give an interview.......)

 

[mrjitty]

I think this is best way it is explained is to put the link to the actual Judgement to clarify , you have not interpreted the SCA Judgement correctly.

The issue arises out of the use of the loaded word "intruder" which of course implies threat - though no belief in threat was proven. Hence it is an improper framing.

As Justice Leach made clear in his dicta as he dismantled Roux in oral argument, it could have been anyone behind the door including a child, or implicitly Reeva

As you say, the SCA approached the murder verdict on the basis that knowledge of identity was not proven and also not relevant.

Sentencing should proceed on the same basis

Furthermore, in my view, "murdering the wrong person" cannot provide mitigation - even if such a mistake was proven (it was not).

 

[mrjitty]

I've held this view for quite a while. The SCA judges would be far more experienced and competent than Masipa and likely to deliver an appropriate sentence without her obvious bias.

RSA does seem to be somewhat lenient when you look at the Jub Jub case

25 years became 10 on appeal with

And that was for killing multiple kids!

I agree with the CH verdict but i thought the switch from 25 to 10 was hard to follow!

 

[JudgeJudi]

<RSBM>

I'm wondering what people are thinking, in terms of specific mitigation numbers/weighting - ie. years for these factors alone - disability, mental health, ie. the needs of and mercy for the individual as he is today , not as he was in 2013 when he committed murder.

snipped

The 'broken' individual he is today has nothing (IMO) to do with remorse for killing another human being, but a lot to do with the countdown to prison getting closer and closer. His disability shouldn't factor in at all, since he already served time inside and coped fine. He'll still have his legs, therefore the stumbling and hobbling round his cell won't be a factor (although we all know how nimble he is on his stumps in the dark...)

As for his mental health, again, I think that's to do with the fact he thought this day would never come and that he'd never have to go back inside. His delay tactics and appeals have come to nothing, so it's not surprising the poor murderer is suffering, knowing he's all out of tricks. And mercy? Hmm. Perhaps if he hadn't used national TV to speak for Reeva from beyond the grave, or used the court to exaggerate his disability so he could play on Masipa's sympathy, then maybe he'd deserve some mercy. However, he showed Reeva no mercy. He's tried every tactic to avoid more prison time, and he's dragged Reeva's family through an emotional roller coaster - all to avoid doing time for murder.

IMO, he is exactly the same devious person he was in 2013. Little has changed, although unsurprisingly we've seen his continued resistance to being punished for the crime of murder, ie; the Con Court debacle and the TV interview. Then there's the utter disregard for Reeva's family as he ploughs on thinking only of himself, talking graphically about Reeva's blood on TV, making out they were so in love. For God's sake, they knew each other for a matter of weeks! And for some of that time Reeva was scared of him. Hardly Romeo and Juliet.

So after much ranting, I think Masipa will give him a few years off the minimum (because he's 'broken') and maybe add another 10 for the fake hobbling and sly TV interview!

Just to add to soozie's excellent post:

Disability: OP only chooses to call himself disabled when it’s of benefit to him, either financially or to save him years in prison. His disability was used to get him the 5 year sentence for culpable homicide which meant he was only required to serve 1/6 of his sentence. Nothing has changed regarding his physical disability, but he wants to use it again.

Mental health: His own psych did not come to the sentencing hearing, and who would be the most qualified to judge his mental state both as it was and as it is now? Certainly not Scholtz who was bought off by the defence team. Any person looking at a potentially long prison sentence will have anxiety issues. If mental health is being used to get a further reduction in sentence, why didn't Barry Roux arrange for a full psychiatric assessment? OP's psych obviously didn't see the need.

Mercy: Sorry, he’d get no mercy from me. For what?
He’s made Reeva’s family suffer not only by murdering their daughter, but making them suffer for the last 3 years and still to this day denying them the truth of what happened.
His ultimate insult - his pity parade right in front of them on the world stage. This after they’ve seen what he did to Reeva.

As far as the interview goes (invariably described as a “documentary”) - what a joke. Here’s the definition of a “documentary film”: A non-fictional motion picture intended to document some aspect of reality”. What an insult to both the court and Reeva’s family after he’s already been convicted of murder. He lied all the way through his trial, denied he murdered her, too ill to testify, and his final insult to the family, the appalling walk designed to garner pity from Masipa. I’ll have to restrain myself from commenting further on this.

I absolutely believe in mercy but not for the likes of the murderer known as OP. His apologists constantly raise the Visagie case but they have no understanding of legal precedent. In their eyes it's a simple case of another man shot and killed his daughter and was not charged with murder. As far as they’re concerned the two cases are the same. Nothing could be further from the truth. This poor man was correctly given mercy. Many of you will be familiar with the case so I won’t go into the details.

To me it’s the same as looking at OP walking on his stumps in court and seeing Barry Steenkamp in the witness box. Who do you see as the victim?

 

[DexterMorgan]

<RSBM>





Just to add to soozie's excellent post:

Disability: OP only chooses to call himself disabled when it’s of benefit to him, either financially or to save him years in prison. His disability was used to get him the 5 year sentence for culpable homicide which meant he was only required to serve 1/6 of his sentence. Nothing has changed regarding his physical disability, but he wants to use it again.

Mental health: His own psych did not come to the sentencing hearing, and who would be the most qualified to judge his mental state both as it was and as it is now? Certainly not Scholtz who was bought off by the defence team. Any person looking at a potentially long prison sentence will have anxiety issues. If mental health is being used to get a further reduction in sentence, why didn't Barry Roux arrange for a full psychiatric assessment? OP's psych obviously didn't see the need.

Mercy: Sorry, he’d get no mercy from me. For what?
He’s made Reeva’s family suffer not only by murdering their daughter, but making them suffer for the last 3 years and still to this day denying them the truth of what happened.
His ultimate insult - his pity parade right in front of them on the world stage. This after they’ve seen what he did to Reeva.

As far as the interview goes (invariably described as a “documentary”) - what a joke. Here’s the definition of a “documentary film”: A non-fictional motion picture intended to document some aspect of reality”. What an insult to both the court and Reeva’s family after he’s already been convicted of murder. He lied all the way through his trial, denied he murdered her, too ill to testify, and his final insult to the family, the appalling walk designed to garner pity from Masipa. I’ll have to restrain myself from commenting further on this.

I absolutely believe in mercy but not for the likes of the murderer known as OP. His apologists constantly raise the Visagie case but they have no understanding of legal precedent. In their eyes it's a simple case of another man shot and killed his daughter and was not charged with murder. As far as they’re concerned the two cases are the same. Nothing could be further from the truth. This poor man was correctly given mercy. Many of you will be familiar with the case so I won’t go into the details.

To me it’s the same as looking at OP walking on his stumps in court and seeing Barry Steenkamp in the witness box. Who do you see as the victim?

Agree. But I'm still dumbfounded of how the minimum sentence for murder is 15 years; But he still hasn't been sentenced yet. What's the problem.

I'm sure he can appeal it later while staying out of jail.

So what's the problem.

 

[Interested Bystander]

If I were Masipa, faced with this mess of a former national hero and the backlash that I received from my previous lenient sentence I would hit him hard with at least 25 years and then allow an appealate panel review of my decision. Masipa, I believe, is done with leniency for this coward, which was likely misplaced because of his former public status.

That would be good. I agree if there is an appeal it might just be that he is given a longer sentence than Masipa would hand down. Not long now - short sentence = appeal by Nel, long sentence = appeal by OP and the wheel keeps turning LOL!

 

[Marfa Lights]

I am sick of hearing his wimpering squeaky forced high pitch crying-talking voice ( he does the high pitched tone again in the ITV Interview to stick to story that he is capable of screaming like a woman) .
He makes me feel very uncomfortable just hearing him talk about that night again, he has vacant cold eyes and even still manages to stumble over his words,hesitate and repeat even though he's supposed to be recounting truth of what happened that night.

As Mrs Steenkamp said - there are massive gaps that still need answers , his story doesn't make sense, he hasn't told the truth.

Yes, I have tried to allow for the accent, but it still comes uncomfortably close to "baby talk" to me. And all that muttering and stumbling over his words that he did in court and in this interview-- when you read it in transcript form it seems deliberately done to obfuscate.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Great idea Viper.

Masipa needs to throw the book at him to show her ferociousness.

But just like in the United States. If a judge gives you leniency while then being forced to give you a harsher sentence. Then usually that judge would be not be mad at the suspect. They would usually be more mad at the protesters and higher ups for questioning their decision in the first place. Jmo.

So unless she caught Oscar on tape; Where he was saying degrading things about her while laughing at her.

Then I doubt she will throw the book at him.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I have been thinking about mitigating and aggravating factors for sentencing-- I do not see much in the way of mitigating factors, especially since having done the interview followed by his unwillingness to testify at his final court hearing for sentencing. I think that pretty much cancelled out any potential benefit from the stumps on parade routine.

As far as aggravating circumstances, I think back to his lack of respect for the court in going out night-clubbing while on bail, getting drunk and harassing women and other male club members (but Roux said his client doesn't drink, right?), texting various women during the court proceedings, being an evasive witness and not taking the court into his confidence, not showing true remorse, not showing a propensity for rehabilitation by being aggressive and disrespectful to the prison staff, as well as the possession of contraband phones, medication, etc while in prison. These would factor into my sentencing thoughts if I were in Masipa's shoes.

Mainly I think he has such a long history of disrespect for both women and guns, that it is for society's benefit and protection that he receive a fairly lengthy prison term (10 years confinement + whatever non-custodial terms to be tacked on for another 5 years) to give him time to grow up and come to terms with his own self-centered arrogant attitudes toward life and the blatant and reckless disregard for the lives of others (previously exemplified by his frequent driving at excessive speed, the boating accident while driving drunk at night, carelessly discharging a firearm in public, threatening to break people's legs, carrying a weapon at all times just looking for an opportunity to use it.)

I hope he serves at least 10 years incarcerated. Masipa should not be able to justify more than 5 years mitigation/time served.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I have been thinking about mitigating and aggravating factors for sentencing-- I do not see much in the way of mitigating factors, especially since having done the interview followed by his unwillingness to testify at his final court hearing for sentencing. I think that pretty much cancelled out any potential benefit from the stumps on parade routine.

As far as aggravating circumstances, I think back to his lack of respect for the court in going out night-clubbing while on bail, getting drunk and harassing women and other male club members (but Roux said his client doesn't drink, right?), texting various women during the court proceedings, being an evasive witness and not taking the court into his confidence, not showing true remorse, not showing a propensity for rehabilitation by being aggressive and disrespectful to the prison staff, as well as the possession of contraband phones, medication, etc while in prison. These would factor into my sentencing thoughts if I were in Masipa's shoes.

Mainly I think he has such a long history of disrespect for both women and guns, that it is for society's benefit and protection that he receive a fairly lengthy prison term (10 years confinement + whatever non-custodial terms to be tacked on for another 5 years) to give him time to grow up and come to terms with his own self-centered arrogant attitudes toward life and the blatant and reckless disregard for the lives of others (previously exemplified by his frequent driving at excessive speed, the boating accident while driving drunk at night, carelessly discharging a firearm in public, threatening to break people's legs, carrying a weapon at all times just looking for an opportunity to use it.)

I hope he serves at least 10 years incarcerated. Masipa should not be able to justify more than 5 years mitigation/time served.

Agree. But I think Masippa is waiting for additional funds to clear by his uncle before she sentences him. Lol

Or she is really mad at the highest courts for making her seem stupid and she is doing her best by law to still give him the most lenient sentence possible while staying within the guidelines. Jmo

 

[BeachSky]

I am sick of hearing his wimpering squeaky forced high pitch crying-talking voice ( he does the high pitched tone again in the ITV Interview to stick to story that he is capable of screaming like a woman) .
He makes me feel very uncomfortable just hearing him talk about that night again, he has vacant cold eyes and even still manages to stumble over his words,hesitate and repeat even though he's supposed to be recounting truth of what happened that night.

As Mrs Steenkamp said - there are massive gaps that still need answers , his story doesn't make sense, he hasn't told the truth.

Was reading a comment on 13 juror about the direct fatal target of his bullets after the first shot..
maybe he could see into the bullet hole ( her cell phone lighting up herself /the target)
Rage. He has always left out rage.
The door:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-13/pistorius-bathroom-door/5741954
He did not love her . He not only killed her but he's leaving her buried with this lie that she made a mistake...that she set off the chain of events of her own death.That he was a protective boyfriend ,when he was a raging time bomb that hunted her down. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

Was reading a comment on 13 juror about the direct fatal target of his bullets after the first shot..
maybe he could see into the bullet hole ( her cell phone lighting up herself /the target)
Rage. He has always left out rage.
The door:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-13/pistorius-bathroom-door/5741954
He did not love her . He not only killed her but he's leaving her buried with this lie that she made a mistake...
that she set off the chain of events of her own death.That he was a protective boyfriend ,when he was really a raging time bomb that had to win that night. JMO

Lol. Agree.

I would love to see what OP looks like when firing 4 shots from a gun while on his stumps. Jmo.

So I don't know why Massipa allowed us to see him struggling on his stumps. But didn't allow us to see other footage of how he is actually quick or capable on his stumps to feel confident enough to approach a home invader on his stumps.

Plus the way Oscar was walking in court on his stumps. I'm surprised Massipa didn't ask him why he didn't ask Reeva to pass him his legs while he grabbed his gun. Jmo.

 

[Tortoise]

We have written an open letter to Barry Roux to ask him some questions about his conduct in court. Read here

Great stuff and good timing.

He needs to be exposed and held to account for his trickery. There is so much more..

 

[Marfa Lights]

Lol. Agree.

I would love to see what OP looks like when firing 4 shots from a gun while on his stumps. Jmo.

So I don't know why Massipa allowed us to see him struggling on his stumps. But didn't allow us to see other footage of how he is actually quick or capable on his stumps to feel confident enough to approach a home invader on his stumps.

Plus the way Oscar was walking in court on his stumps. I'm surprised Massipa didn't ask him why he didn't ask Reeva to pass him his legs while he grabbed his gun. Jmo.

We've all seen how fast he can put his stumps on-- nearly as fast as he can unholster his gun.

I think he had his "legs" on the entire time-- beginning with when he first fired the air rifle to scare her, (possibly hitting her and the bedroom door as well) before he then picked up the cricket bat and chased her into the toilet screaming "Get the fck out of my house!" When Reeva slammed the toilet door and locked herself in screaming he became enraged and kicked and bashed at the door with the cricket bat. I think it was at this time that he also hit the metal plate on the side of the bathtub with the cricket bat just for the extra effect. I then think he decided to return to the bedroom and get his gun. Reeva was screaming bloody murder and "Help, Help, Help" so while in the bedroom he took the opportunity to step out on the balcony and in mocking tone countered her cries for help with his own. I think he then had already made up his story of the intruder before he went back to the bathroom and shot her in cold blood. (I do not believe the ballistics ruled out the possibility that he fired with his elbow bent. He even admitted to this at one point in his testimony or cross IIRC.) All he had to do then was take the cricket bat and pry open a damaged panel or two and reach inside for the key.

ETA: for anyone who thinks it unlikely that Oscar would come up with an intruder story that quickly, I would say that he could quickly reflect back on the time that he went Code Red on his washing machine and on another occasion when he pulled his gun on his trainer's son who was staying overnight, nearly scaring him to death. I imagine Oscar spent quite a bit of time laying in bed, unable to sleep as was often the case, with his gun beside him playing out various scenarios in his mind about how one day he might be able to use his gun on an intruder. I guess maybe that's when he would get up and go to the gun range in the middle of the night and practice.

 

[Gecko100]

Lol. Agree.

I would love to see what OP looks like when firing 4 shots from a gun while on his stumps. Jmo.

So I don't know why Massipa allowed us to see him struggling on his stumps. But didn't allow us to see other footage of how he is actually quick or capable on his stumps to feel confident enough to approach a home invader on his stumps.

Plus the way Oscar was walking in court on his stumps. I'm surprised Massipa didn't ask him why he didn't ask Reeva to pass him his legs while he grabbed his gun. Jmo.

It seems his disability did not stop him from carrying his fans inside, and he was carrying the bat while shooting which may have supported his disability. Did he have his legs on when he carried her downstairs, it would have been so slippery with all the blood?

 

[cottonweaver]

today's news24 - an analysis of his ITV interview.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...re-we-being-manipulated-if-so-by-who-20160705

What's more surprising?
a) the amount of nonsense contributed by Pistorians to news24 on a daily basis?
b) that the link above was written by a media specialist from UnivCapeTown?

 

[cottonweaver]

Today's enca

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/preview-oscar-pistoriuss-sentencing-procedures

this is from a link from the other forum, thought I'd move it over here, thanks .

edit - just checked , i can't find where it apparently says URoux "says Oscar should have 48 hours to report to prison after sentencing ...He also said Oscar could apply for bail if he decides to appeal the sentence."

it does have the live feed broadcast for tomorrow at the top though.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Today's enca

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/preview-oscar-pistoriuss-sentencing-procedures

this is from a link from the other forum, thought I'd move it over here, thanks .

edit - just checked , i can't find where it apparently says URoux "says Oscar should have 48 hours to report to prison after sentencing ...He also said Oscar could apply for bail if he decides to appeal the sentence."

it does have the live feed broadcast for tomorrow at the top though.

Thanks Cottonweaver. I watched all of it (about 6 minutes) and noted that he did say Oscar would have 48 hours to report to prison after sentencing. This was right around the 3:40 mark.

 

[Hazy]

Thanks Cottonweaver. I watched all of it (about 6 minutes) and noted that he did say Oscar would have 48 hours to report to prison after sentencing. This was right around the 3:40 mark.

He didn't get 48 hours last time but maybe a longer sentence warrants that 'to get his affairs in order' ?

Up to judge I guess.