Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016

[Viper]

This is exactly what I raised before.

A poster already made a post with the answer and authorities.

Now you post 75% - what is your authority for this please?

I've been on this board for years, done lots of research and read many SA case laws and appealate decisions, that was one of the facts that I read. I'm not going to do the research again to give you a link, but ask yourself: What do I have to gain by lying about that simple fact?

 

[sleuth-d-]

So far all I can think of that Masipa will have to start with 15 years minus what he has already served.

However, we have not heard of his aggravation factors yet.

i think trained gun owner/user has already been mentioned as aggravating. i really hope nel has a simple list of aggravating factors both at the beginning and at the end of his paper.

 

[Marfa Lights]

What was she doing Marfa?

When Nel asked for the lunch break, she sat there unmoving for several seconds (whereas she would normally jump at the chance for a break). I could not see her expression well enough but I almost felt she was glaring at Nel. It was long enough a pause to be slightly awkward IMO. Then her voice was rather gruff almost sarcastic when she finally agreed to the break.

I think she must resent how effectively Nel has boxed her in regarding her duty to respect legislative intent with the mandatory minimum sentence for a serious offense like murder. I don't think she will give a rat's , however, and I think she will give him the most lenient sentence she can possibly get away with.

But Nel did a great job, obviously, putting her on the spot as he did.

 

[mrjitty]

The dichotomy between the two sides is breathtaking but Nel has brought this home using solid law and the weight of the SCA's ruling. He's told Masipa what he's going to tell her, next he will tell her backed up by solid case law, then he will tell her what he just told her and put this sorry charge to bed for good.

This has really shown up Roux's dramatic, emotional, supplication for the Hail Mary it was. He's getting 10+ for sure. Masipa is boxed in by the clear judgement of the SCA and she knows damn well if she doesn't put him away for a lengthy spell the SCA will gladly do it for her.

I know it's dull but this is usually how the law works

What are the principles? How are they applied? What did Courts do in the past?

Roux avoids all of that to focus on drama because he has a **** case.

My guess is that he is asking for the moon so when OP gets 10 it will seem like Masipa is being tough when in fact she is being soft. the

 

[Jake18]

I'm really hoping that her days of controversy are over - no one likes being negatively scrutinised by their colleagues.

 

[JudgeJudi]

It is 75% not 50%. The State has all of the cards at this point. Forget about the 8 years comment. If she gave 10 years the State can still appeal that sentence with nothing to lose, and the SCA would absolutely throw 15 years at OP, or more, without blinking an eye.

This is exactly what I raised before.

A poster already made a post with the answer and authorities.

Now you post 75% - what is your authority for this please?

Here you go. I bumped the relevant part up from the beginning of the thread:

The mandatory minimum sentence for murder is 15 years, however ...

If "substantial and compelling circumstances" are present to justify a lesser sentence, the court is permitted to deviate from the prescribed sentence as long as the judge provides reasons for the deviation on the record. This is not an unusual occurrence in SA.

In addition to the mandatory minimum sentence, the mandatory minimum sentencing regime also restricts the ability of judges to suspend parts of custodial sentences they impose. The Criminal Procedure Act provides that a court, after it convicts a person for a crime for which a prescribed minimum sentence is applicable, may suspend up to five years of the prescribed sentence on the basis of various conditions, including compensation, community service, submission to correctional supervision, good behaviour, or any other condition that it deems fit. The mandatory sentencing regime prohibits the suspension of a mandatory minimum sentence.

Hypothetically Masipa could reduce the 15 year sentence to 10 if she finds substantial and compelling circumstances (IMO there are none) and then deduct the year already served leaving a balance of 9. In my eyes the minimum he should get is 14, i.e. 15 less 1 year served.

 

[mrjitty]

When Nel asked for the lunch break, she sat there unmoving for several seconds (whereas she would normally jump at the chance for a break). I could not see her expression well enough but I almost felt she was glaring at Nel. It was long enough a pause to be slightly awkward IMO. Then her voice was rather gruff almost sarcastic when she finally agreed to the break..

I don't know how many High Court Judges you have witnessed but to me that is completely normal.

On my first appearance, I said my piece (asking for an adjournment).

The Judge said nothing for about 30s

Then the Court Registrar read out the adjournment and called the next case.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'll have to look to find the relevant section if you need it.

 

[lithgow1]

I've been on this board for years, done lots of research and read many SA case laws and appealate decisions, that was one of the facts that I read. I'm not going to do the research again to give you a link, but ask yourself: What do I have to gain by lying about that simple fact?

It is just that there has been some confusion re this Viper and about ten pages back someone posted the criteria for time spent before parole along with the links to two government documents showing that it is 50% for this charge. With other charges/circumstances it is set at the higher 75% rate. I asked a few times as I kept seeing different figures given (by SA journos and law talkin' folk) and someone provided what looks pretty much the accurate info.

 

[sweetcaro]

How long until the break is over?

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks. Do you have a link to the actual page where we can listen to him? I just went to the eNCA but can only see the live stream and it is on pause for lunch.

Whatever is contained in the post. No further info.

 

[Marfa Lights]

So far all I can think of that Masipa will have to start with 15 years minus what he has already served.

However, we have not heard of his aggravation factors yet.

The firearms training has been mentioned, but I think Nel intended aggravating factors to include his remarks re: Oscar never offering a satisfactory reason why he shot (unless that will appear on the ITV interview June 24th) and therefore cannot be remorseful for something he refuses to explain.

And to some extent, Oscar's hostile and belligerent behavior towards the prison hospital staff as an indication that he is not accepting his rehabilitation well and that he has been breaking prison rules re: medication. Not sure why the "illegal" cell phones they supposedly confiscated were never mentioned.

 

[mrjitty]

Here you go. I bumped the relevant part up from the beginning of the thread:

The mandatory minimum sentence for murder is 15 years, however ...

If "substantial and compelling circumstances" are present to justify a lesser sentence, the court is permitted to deviate from the prescribed sentence as long as the judge provides reasons for the deviation on the record. This is not an unusual occurrence in SA.

In addition to the mandatory minimum sentence, the mandatory minimum sentencing regime also restricts the ability of judges to suspend parts of custodial sentences they impose. The Criminal Procedure Act provides that a court, after it convicts a person for a crime for which a prescribed minimum sentence is applicable, may suspend up to five years of the prescribed sentence on the basis of various conditions, including compensation, community service, submission to correctional supervision, good behaviour, or any other condition that it deems fit. The mandatory sentencing regime prohibits the suspension of a mandatory minimum sentence.

Hypothetically Masipa could reduce the 15 year sentence to 10 if she finds substantial and compelling circumstances (IMO there are none) and then deduct the year already served leaving a balance of 9. In my eyes the minimum he should get is 14, i.e. 15 less 1 year served.

Thank you

I believe Viper is talking about parole not suspended sentence.

Parole is not actually relevant in sentencing tho' the Judge may specify a non parole period.

 

[Paul Connelly]

For Barry Roux to parade Oscar on his stumps in front of Masipa to get her sympathy at the sentencing hearing is the lowest thing I've ever seen in a courtroom for a man who is a convicted murderer. I've said it before but I have to say it again, and again, I have no respect for Roux. He has no morals, no scruples, no sense of decency. This in front of Barry and June who know their daughter was murdered in a most horrendous way and trapped in that tiny cubicle.

I nearly choked when Nel asked on behalf of Barry that Reeva's injuries be shown to the world and I understand why he said it. Barry has seen the 2 in court, but he hasn't seen the others. I don't think his heart will stand it to see close-ups of her injuries. Countless pics are taken of bodies from every angle and some very close-up shots. He's barely managing now. This is really a case of be careful what you ask for.

I agree JJ. It would do him no good whatsoever. There are various stages of grief to go through and he is still at the blame stage. Unfortunately, he wants to blame himself as a father who failed to protect his daughter. That's why he wants to stick needles into his abdomen to feel what she felt. He wants to take that pain and endure what she did and soak it up like a sponge. Similarly, he wants to see the graphic images to help him feel what she felt. We know that it won't help him of course, he needs to move on to the other stage of grieving which is acceptance. To do this he needs to understand why and how she was killed and Roux won't allow him this salve to help him heal. Roux is compounding the man's distress and you right he is all of those things and more. He has no integrity and he is cynically torturing the innocent. He has gone way beyond the bounds of his duty to give his client a fair trial. He's crossed the rubicon and entered the abyss. He more than anyone will know Pistorius is guilty and yet he still persecutes the fragile, vulnerable and innocent Steenkamps. The man is beyond belief.

 

[Fuskier]

I'm really hoping that her days of controversy are over - no one likes being negatively scrutinised by their colleagues.

Might be wise for her to give him 15. My opinion only.

 

[lithgow1]

Thank you

I believe Viper is talking about parole not suspended sentence.

Parole is not actually relevant in sentencing tho' the Judge may specify a non parole period.

Yep - here below is the original post by sinth relating to parole:

In this case for Oscar Pistorius it will be 50%.

There is provision in law that it must be 80% (or reduced to two-thirds if the sentencing court states so) if the murder meets certain requirements:
1) Planned or premeditated
2) Victim was a law enforcement officer or witness.
3) Rape and/or robbery was a factor
4) Organized crime was a factor
5) Victim was killed for organ extraction
6) Witchcraft was involved

My sources:

Correctional Services Act 1998 §73 (6b)(v)
Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997, Schedule 2 (Section 51) Part I

 

[mrjitty]

I've been on this board for years, done lots of research and read many SA case laws and appealate decisions, that was one of the facts that I read. I'm not going to do the research again to give you a link, but ask yourself: What do I have to gain by lying about that simple fact?

I am not saying you a lying.

I am simply pointing out that it is frustrating if the wrong information is continuously posted in the thread.

The previous posted showed authority for 50% and this fits with what I previously researched months ago.

So I am wondering where you get 75% from.

Perhaps its best not to insist you are correct about this unless you can cite the authority?

I do wonder if a separate thread would have been useful for all these statutory provisions!

 

[Viper]

It is just that there has been some confusion re this Viper and about ten pages back someone posted the criteria for time spent before parole along with the links to two government documents showing that it is 50% for this charge. With other charges/circumstances it is set at the higher 75% rate. I asked a few times as I kept seeing different figures given (by SA journos and law talkin' folk) and someone provided what looks pretty much the accurate info.

Ah, who knows. It was just stuff we read on the Internet! :smile: Anything less than 25 years served in full would not be justice to me but SA is a very forgiving penal country if you play nice, so...

 

[mrjitty]

Yep - here below is the original post by sinth relating to parole:

In this case for Oscar Pistorius it will be 50%.

There is provision in law that it must be 80% (or reduced to two-thirds if the sentencing court states so) if the murder meets certain requirements:
1) Planned or premeditated
2) Victim was a law enforcement officer or witness.
3) Rape and/or robbery was a factor
4) Organized crime was a factor
5) Victim was killed for organ extraction
6) Witchcraft was involved

My sources:

Correctional Services Act 1998 §73 (6b)(v)
Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997, Schedule 2 (Section 51) Part I

That is my recollection as well.

These are murders with aggravated features.

So Pre-meditated murder carries mandatory life sentence (25 yrs)

 

[Fuskier]

The Citizen News ‏@TheCitizen_News 15h15 hours ago

#OscarPistorius back in court in his black suit. His sister Aimee hugs him tightly. #ID

Erin Bates Verified account ‏@ermbates 15h15 hours ago

Sister and brother to @OscarPistorius escort him to bench, he's dressed in a suit again, lunched with his legal team #OscarPistorius @News

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter 15h15 hours ago

#OscarPistorius court about to resume. Into the last stretch. BB

Barry Bateman Verified account ‏@barrybateman 15h15 hours ago

#OscarPistorius court about to resume. Into the last stretch. BB