Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016

[Paul Connelly]

Lol, Roux should book for the Edinburgh Fringe. I've never seen satire this good before! :happydance:

 

[cottonweaver]

Roux – Closing. Head of argument

Masipa we took your J and compared it to the SCA j and compared and we concluded with the distilled facts to give you a complete pic - a reconciliation between the two.
But before hand but there are serious enemies in this matter. Firstly perception created that Op wanted to kill RS, direct intent and this perception does not go away because some people who want to trust the court and the facts – those will consider is it true it was DD or what happened ( basically)

A father is hurting because what was put in his mind is there.
And it's not for me to cross the father on the courts findngs.

Missed the rest , feed down, here's Gdn.

Roux: There are serious enemies, so to speak, in this matter.

There is a perception created that [Pistorius] wanted to kill the deceased … Was it really true that he wanted to kill her?

Is it not perhaps a different picture?

Roux says he can only have “empathy and sympathy” with Steenkamp’s parents. But he mentions ideas “put in their heads”.

He says a “second enemy … is an unwillingness or an inability … to see the accused in the context of that evening”.

He says many can see only the gold medallist, the strong person winning races.

The real facts become concealed … It was not the man winning gold medals that must be judged … It was a 1.5m person, standing on his stumps, three o’clock in the morning when it was dark.

There is a third enemy, Roux says: an inability to set aside the negative emotions caused by the misperceptions and look at the true facts.

He says it’s not about “what people thought” but objective evidence

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...ius-sentencing-live-day-three-reeva-steenkamp

 

[JudgeJudi]

Roux refers to the case where the man shot his daughter as she drove away in the car. "Everyone sympathised with him".

 

[Really?]

He fired 4 shots to make sure he killer Reeva

 

[Marfa Lights]

Now he is on about the 4th enemy of the case--

The court is capable of giving the accused the benefit of the doubt.

But now when we get to sentencing, there is a perception in the mind of laypeople, there is doubt that becomes an aggravating factor and to seek a more severe sentence.

(This is a BRILLIANT tactic from Roux. I imagine this will totally work on Masipa!)

Now he wants to reverse engineer the SCA judgment and have Masipa consider that there may be more reason to believe Oscar shot in a mistaken belief, just like the man who shot mistakenly and killed his own daughter. Roux says Oscar was never granted this benefit of the doubt about shooting his girlfriend.

 

[cottonweaver]

which father was not prosecuted for his mistake? WHICH case is he citing or is it another made- up scenario

There can never be an appropriate sentence in the eyes of those who think there was an argument, Steenkamp ran to the toilet and he killed her, Roux says. They are not the objective facts.

He says when it comes to sentencing, you cannot decide a punishment based on “fanciful doubt”.

How can I add years, how can I ask for a more severe sentence, if the very real possibility is that he didn’t do it?

 

[Really?]

After Reeva screamed out in pain.....be repositioned himself to aim at her screams

 

[Trooper]

Masipa is going to have to justify and explain why she would go the discretionary route in the sentencing... That would be an endless job.

But no reason why Roux shouldn't try and get his client the best deal. Hard to listen to though, because it's expensive waffling...

 

[JudgeJudi]

Barry Bateman
#OscarPistorius Roux: you can deviate from the 15yr discretionary sentence when there are substantial and compelling circumstances.

#OscarPistorius Roux: there shouldn’t be an argue that those circumstances are present in this case

 

[Trooper]

which father was not prosecuted for his mistake? WHICH case is he citing or is it another made- up scenario

there had been a case.. a father, a rugby player, ( half god in South Africa ) saw a figure running out of his yard and into his pickup truck.. he fired his gun, and was amazingly accurate.. a head shot, unfortunately, it was his daughter , sneaking out the house for a date..

totally different facts to Oscar's situation, but hey...

 

[Marfa Lights]

Roux says that there should be no argument that there are compelling and discretionary circumstances that allow her to deviate from the mandatory sentence.

Citing a case Malfas (?) Salfi (?) where the SCA said the sentencing phase did not have to have exceptional circumstances but could take "feelings" into consideration. (That's a weird translation-- but Roux put great emphasis on the word "feelings" and that if Masipa has any unease about sentencing him 15 years, it cannot be.)

She should not allow herself to be drowned by wrong perceptions.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Don't agree she was paid off in any way. She simply didn't understand the evidence or the law, felt sorry for OP and made a terrible judgment. She must feel like an idiot having to sentence him after her verdict was overturned.

Lol. How long has she's been a judge. What do you mean that she didn't understand it.

Please. Don't drink the Kool-aid. Jmo.

Now either she was paid off or sympathetic to Oscar because she was jealous of the law degree /model Reeva. Jmo

Because if Reeva was Winnie. Then Oscar would have been sentenced to 30 years from the gate. Jmo

 

[cottonweaver]

All i got in between the buffering was :

He is now quoting the case I put up before, malgas

para 22
"What that something more must be it is not possible to express in precise, accurate and all-embracing language. The greater the sense of unease a court feels about the imposition of a prescribed sentence, the greater its anxiety will be that it may be perpetrating an injustice. Once a court reaches the point where unease has hardened into a conviction that an injustice will be done, that can only be because it is satisfied that the circumstances of the particular case render the prescribed sentence unjust or, as some might prefer to put it, disproportionate to the crime, the criminal and the legitimate needs of society."


http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2001/30.html

 

[Marfa Lights]

Roux is earning his money here. Once again he is handing it to Masipa on a silver platter.

I predict she will lap it up and spit it back out just like the timeline he handed her.

 

[cottonweaver]

there had been a case.. a father, a rugby player, ( half god in South Africa ) saw a figure running out of his yard and into his pickup truck.. he fired his gun, and was amazingly accurate.. a head shot, unfortunately, it was his daughter , sneaking out the house for a date..

totally different facts to Oscar's situation, but hey...

Cheers Trooper, must be Visagie case?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Barry Bateman
#OscarPistorius Roux: there must be unease where you are told that you must send this man to jail for 15 years

Karyn Maughan
Roux: must be unease if people say you must sentence #OscarPistorius to 15 years,person on stumps at 3am who didn't want to shoot girlfriend

 

[Trooper]

All i got in between the buffering was :

He is now quoting the case I put up before, malgas

para 22
"What that something more must be it is not possible to express in precise, accurate and all-embracing language. The greater the sense of unease a court feels about the imposition of a prescribed sentence, the greater its anxiety will be that it may be perpetrating an injustice. Once a court reaches the point where unease has hardened into a conviction that an injustice will be done, that can only be because it is satisfied that the circumstances of the particular case render the prescribed sentence unjust or, as some might prefer to put it, disproportionate to the crime, the criminal and the legitimate needs of society."


http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2001/30.html

the thing about the case of the father shooting the daughter, in the dark, thinking it was a thief, was.. their loss, the mother and father' s loss was deemed to be so great, and so unchangeable, that the father wasn't even prosecuted, on the grounds that no punishment a court could inflict would be any greater than the punishment the father was living with and would live with for the rest of his life. .. . ( South African Law)

 

[Estelle]

This sounds more like an Appeal to the murder verdict.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Roux saying SCA didn't disturb Masipa's finding that Reeva was in the bedroom.

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes Visagie but Nel will be super prepped for this comparison and the important distinctions.

There can never be an appropriate sentence in the eyes of those who think there was an argument, Steenkamp ran to the toilet and he killed her, Roux says. They are not the objective facts.

He says when it comes to sentencing, you cannot decide a punishment based on “fanciful doubt”.

How can I add years, how can I ask for a more severe sentence, if the very real possibility is that he didn’t do it?

Roux: How must it feel when you shoot your own girlfriend?

What do I want to happen this man, Roux asks.

He mentions rugby player Vleis Visagie, who accidentally shot and killed his daughter. He was not prosecuted.

Roux says he is not asking here for a non-prosecution.

You can make a mistake … You shoot at a person under a mistaken belief.

How must you feel when you fire those shots that you should not have, and it’s your own girlfriend?

What do we do? We criticise.

Roux tells judge she must not allow herself to be “drowned by perceptions”. The supreme court considered only legal aspects, he says, not the facts of the case.

He says, therefore, that this sentencing should rely on the same facts as the original sentencing (which resulted in a five-year term, of which Pistorius has served 10 months in prison).

Roux; 'Nothing in SCA judgement saying there was an argument, she ran to cubicle, that he wanted to shoot her!'
Roux says "do you send that person 15 years to jail?"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...ius-sentencing-live-day-three-reeva-steenkamp