PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

[Ann99]

Years back when I looked into 195 Avenue A in Pittsburgh, I thought I had something, it being near a direct rout to Bedford. But it is a private residence and there was never a locksmith there, it is just a coincidence.

PLEASE PLEASE don’t anyone bug whoever lives there now!

I was only kidding. I saw on Google earth that it was a private residence.
I was being sarcastic about the "evidence" of a direct route to Bedford, even though that is a fact .
I've learned a lesson. Sarcasm has no place here. Sorry !

 

[Ann99]

DBM
DUPLICATE.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I was only kidding. I saw on Google earth that it was a private residence.
I was being sarcastic about the "evidence" of a direct route to Bedford, even though that is a fact .
I've learned a lesson. Sarcasm has no place here. Sorry !

I was only kidding. I saw on Google earth that it was a private residence.
I was being sarcastic about the "evidence" of a direct route to Bedford, even though that is a fact .
I've learned a lesson. Sarcasm has no place here. Sorry !

Nooo Ann99, I knew you were being funny! I just worried that someone else might not get it and start bothering the residents. The occasional sarcasm helps keep us sane. When someone would come up with elaborate theories based on basically nothing I used to “call mustard” on them. This came from the game of Clue, as in “Colonel Mustard did it in the hallway with a candlestick”. And when I read “I feel” or “I believe” too much without any evidence or reason, I call it Counselor Troi mode. “Fleeing an abusive relationship” and “Left an Amish community for Rumspringa and never went back” are the two classic Websleuths theories that could always be true in any case and never are, and will get you a mustard citation!

 

[Ann99]

585UMPA

"Clothing: From the initial 1958 report: Gray wool hunting socks with red top, blue denim dungarees with a wide black leather belt, white tee shirt, white jockey type shorts, black leather motorcycle type jacket with full length zipper and slant zipper pockets, and black "engineering" boots, length 12 5/8", width of sole 4 1/2", heel 3 1/4 ", top height 10 1/2", with buckles on the outside. Numerous articles of clothing found nearby. No hat was found."

A measurement of the waist band of the denim pants and inseam, and a better description of the belt length could be a good clue as to the weight of this man.
Same for the jockey type shorts. Shoulder measurement of black leather jacket
would be helpful.

From the photo of the pants, Mr. Bones waist looks to be very slim.

Mr. Conner appears to be more "paunchy"
Was he a bit more heavy?
I don't see Mr. Conner as a jockey shorts type guy...

 

[Magnum P.E.]

585UMPA

"Clothing: From the initial 1958 report: Gray wool hunting socks with red top, blue denim dungarees with a wide black leather belt, white tee shirt, white jockey type shorts, black leather motorcycle type jacket with full length zipper and slant zipper pockets, and black "engineering" boots, length 12 5/8", width of sole 4 1/2", heel 3 1/4 ", top height 10 1/2", with buckles on the outside. Numerous articles of clothing found nearby. No hat was found."

A measurement of the waist band of the denim pants and inseam, and a better description of the belt length could be a good clue as to the weight of this man.
Same for the jockey type shorts. Shoulder measurement of black leather jacket
would be helpful.

From the photo of the pants, Mr. Bones waist looks to be very slim.

Mr. Conner appears to be more "paunchy"
Was he a bit more heavy?
I don't see Mr. Conner as a jockey shorts type guy...

They told me a long time ago that they no longer have the jacket.
I am not sure how one would accurately assess the type of underwear that Chuck Conner would have worn in 1957.
Interestingly, Conner was reported to have been wearing a red shirt when he died. Could the “red top”refer to a shirt, or is it the socks that have a red top?

 

[Warwick1991]

They told me a long time ago that they no longer have the jacket.
I am not sure how one would accurately assess the type of underwear that Chuck Conner would have worn in 1957.
Interestingly, Conner was reported to have been wearing a red shirt when he died. Could the “red top”refer to a shirt, or is it the socks that have a red top?

When I lived in New England, I wore woolly "ragg" wool socks designed for hunters - more than one brand had a red band woven around the top. They were typically worn under boots, and helped make the boots more comfortable as well as offering warmth. These aren't common today and have been replaced by blends with synthetic materials. I don't see any like them advertised today, but I still have some old pairs. Woolrich formerly made some, but there were other brands as well.

 

[Ann99]

They told me a long time ago that they no longer have the jacket.
I am not sure how one would accurately assess the type of underwear that Chuck Conner would have worn in 1957.
Interestingly, Conner was reported to have been wearing a red shirt when he died. Could the “red top”refer to a shirt, or is it the socks that have a red top?

All My Opinion. Supposition. Theory.

That's too bad about the jacket. Wonder why they don't have it any longer....too nice to have in an evidence barrel for decades.... Someone in Bedford may be wearing it.

As far as the underwear, it was my opinion only.
Of course I don't really know what kind of underwear either man preferred. With no disrespect, I do think Criminals wear tighty whities.
Would someone staging this event and dressing this man for the purpose of causing misidentification/confusion, follow thru all the way down to underwear?

The sock. I think it is the sock that has the red top. I will search for a photo as I am familiar with this hiking, hunting sock. It is specifically a boot sock.

 

[Ann99]

When I lived in New England, I wore woolly "ragg" wool socks designed for hunters - more than one brand had a red band woven around the top. They were typically worn under boots, and helped make the boots more comfortable as well as offering warmth. These aren't common today and have been replaced by blends with synthetic materials. I don't see any like them advertised today, but I still have some old pairs. Woolrich formerly made some, but there were other brands as well.

Yes, I imagined this immediately. Here is a link to a photo, if I have done this correctly. The socks are gray with a red band at the top. I had a pair like this long ago.

Wolverine Wool Blend Over-the-Calf Boot Sock, Large, 2 pair $14.99 • $14.99

It seems to me Mr. Bones was a well dressed (upscale) hiker/hunter.
The only item that bothers me is the "cooking utensil" item.

I rationalize new looking, somewhat flimsy utensils by assuming Mr. Bones intended to do nothing more than heat water for coffee, etc.
It was a cold season, as per his clothing, and one would want a hot cup of coffee or tea.
As far as other food items, animals would have carried those things off almost immediately. Anything with an interesting scent is subject to animals carrying off.
If Mr. Bones is Mr. Conner, it makes a very, very good story.
If Mr. Bones is someone else, it is a mystery.

I can't resist... the clue is the underwear...
...and the Bedford Springs Hotel.
Too bad Bedford Springs Hotel can't be more interested in researching their own records/history. MO - The Key Mr. Bones carried, had to have been a Hotel Room Key.
Those records must exist somewhere. After all, it is an Historic Site.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Yes, I imagined this immediately. Here is a link to a photo, if I have done this correctly. The socks are gray with a red band at the top. I had a pair like this long ago.

Wolverine Wool Blend Over-the-Calf Boot Sock, Large, 2 pair $14.99 • $14.99

It seems to me Mr. Bones was a well dressed (upscale) hiker/hunter.
The only item that bothers me is the "cooking utensil" item.

I rationalize new looking, somewhat flimsy utensils by assuming Mr. Bones intended to do nothing more than heat water for coffee, etc.
It was a cold season, as per his clothing, and one would want a hot cup of coffee or tea.
As far as other food items, animals would have carried those things off almost immediately. Anything with an interesting scent is subject to animals carrying off.
If Mr. Bones is Mr. Conner, it makes a very, very good story.
If Mr. Bones is someone else, it is a mystery.

I can't resist... the clue is the underwear...
...and the Bedford Springs Hotel.
Too bad Bedford Springs Hotel can't be more interested in researching their own records/history. MO - The Key Mr. Bones carried, had to have been a Hotel Room Key.
Those records must exist somewhere. After all, it is an Historic Site.

I feel the same way about the jacket. I do have a similar one, of similar vintage, and others covet it. It is heavy and miserable to wear, and I prefer an A2 flight jacket.
Most people take canned goods camping, as you usually lack refrigeration. I know I usually do. None were found, nor a can opener. The animals must have been very frustrated, lacking opposing thumbs and all.
The key might have been a house key as well. We lack access to the police files, but I would bet they checked with the Bedford Hotel in 1958 to see if a big guy in a leather jacket was missing.
Our wheels will be spinning in the mud until Mr. B’s DNA is properly done. Whether Mr. B. is Chuck Conner or someone else, we won’t know until then. All other avenues (including Avenue A), seem to be dead ends.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I feel the same way about the jacket. I do have a similar one, of similar vintage, and others covet it. It is heavy and miserable to wear, and I prefer an A2 flight jacket.
Most people take canned goods camping, as you usually lack refrigeration. I know I usually do. None were found, nor a can opener. The animals must have been very frustrated, lacking opposing thumbs and all.
The key might have been a house key as well. We lack access to the police files, but I would bet they checked with the Bedford Hotel in 1958 to see if a big guy in a leather jacket was missing.
Our wheels will be spinning in the mud until Mr. B’s DNA is properly done. Whether Mr. B. is Chuck Conner or someone else, we won’t know until then. All other avenues (including Avenue A), seem to be dead ends.

I agree. A proper DNA analysis seems to be the best way to solve this thing. I just hope the proper authorities are able to find the time and resources to do so.

 

[Startover]

With all these clues Maybe Mr Bones can be identifed..for example his teeth..have fillings made in Europe or USA? Its a long shot but prehaps they can norrow down the type fo Dental school...of course even if he id known {DNA forensic genealohy} the next question is..how did he die... Accident...murder....???
Of course even when a John Doe is identied...and is not a case of natural causes....who or what brought it about? CAse in Point in the 1960's a US Soldier stationed at Ft Myers VA went out on leave..and vanished..about 15-17 years later a old restraurant on Washington DC was being town down..and human remains were found...they were identied as missing man...his parents were still alive...and his funeral had some closure and grief of course...{Sorry I cant remember the soldiers name]....these facts however just stuck in my mind.....indeed never give up hope prehaps one day Mr Bones will be identified...after all murder victium Horseshoe Harriet has been identied after nearly 20 years.......

 

[Richard]

"Mr. Bones", Unidentified man, Bedford, PA.

LINKS:

Facebook

Mr. Bones

DA, sheriff vie over burying 'Mr. Bones'

‘Mr. Bones’ decoded?: Sleuth believes remains found in Bedford 55 years ago may be Ohio man


https://www.facebook.com/WeWontForg....1073742188.854990047848367/1868079763206052/

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

"Mr. Bones", Unidentified man, Bedford, PA.

LINKS:

Facebook

Mr. Bones

DA, sheriff vie over burying 'Mr. Bones'

‘Mr. Bones’ decoded?: Sleuth believes remains found in Bedford 55 years ago may be Ohio man

It’s been so long since I’ve posted here. I recently heard the Bibb County Doe from Alabama was identified, presumably through the use of his DNA in a genealogical database. If only the same could be done with Mr. Bones... Tried to work something out earlier this year, but I’ve hit a stone wall. I remain patient regardless, and please do not pester the local PD with calls and emails. That isn’t going to help. If they don’t want to retrieve another sample for testing, that’s their choice, and it should be respected. Sorry for rambling. Just getting this out of my system.

 

[Eddie99]

I can't help but to chime in, and repeating myself.

I will still bet anything that Magnum is correct.

The odds of a man that large (in 1957 there were even fewer people that tall than today.)
Being found with a head wound exactly ever Connor was reported to be shot. At roughly the same time period Connor was shot.
Then a career criminal is seen at the exact ¹/2 way point between Lima Ohio and Bedford PA. Dumped with a bunch of crap that has thrown the police off for decades (like a professional criminal would do). That's all way too much for me to dismiss.

If the DNA didn't match Connors parents. I think it's much more likley that there is something wrong with the test, or his parents aren't who he thought they were.

I can't even begin to pretend to know how to calculate the odds of this....

Being murders with a rifle in the 1950s? I'm guessing maybe 50 people, put of 180 million, in a given year in the 50s?

Being 6'⁴ and built. Maybe .05% max of US born men were over 6'2

Same color hair.... no idea how to calculate.

Shot in the head? No idea how to calculate.

One being missing, one being unidentified? No idea how to calculate.

Odds of a guy that just happened to be accused of murder with ties to Ft Wayne, and was seen heading back towards Lima Ohio..... no idea how to calculate.

I apologize for rambling. I just can't believe this isn't him.

I'll bet the farm, that Magnum nailed this.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I can't help but to chime in, and repeating myself.

I will still bet anything that Magnum is correct.

The odds of a man that large (in 1957 there were even fewer people that tall than today.)
Being found with a head wound exactly ever Connor was reported to be shot. At roughly the same time period Connor was shot.
Then a career criminal is seen at the exact ¹/2 way point between Lima Ohio and Bedford PA. Dumped with a bunch of crap that has thrown the police off for decades (like a professional criminal would do). That's all way too much for me to dismiss.

If the DNA didn't match Connors parents. I think it's much more likley that there is something wrong with the test, or his parents aren't who he thought they were.

I can't even begin to pretend to know how to calculate the odds of this....

Being murders with a rifle in the 1950s? I'm guessing maybe 50 people, put of 180 million, in a given year in the 50s?

Being 6'⁴ and built. Maybe .05% max of US born men were over 6'2

Same color hair.... no idea how to calculate.

Shot in the head? No idea how to calculate.

One being missing, one being unidentified? No idea how to calculate.

Odds of a guy that just happened to be accused of murder with ties to Ft Wayne, and was seen heading back towards Lima Ohio..... no idea how to calculate.

I apologize for rambling. I just can't believe this isn't him.

I'll bet the farm, that Magnum nailed this.

From what I’ve seen and heard about this case, I’m going to have to agree on this. It is frustrating that we aren’t able to get more conclusive evidence to either confirm or rule out this theory, but that’s simply the present reality. I’m hopeful that our patience will pull off though.

 

[Ozoner]

I can't help but to chime in, and repeating myself.

I will still bet anything that Magnum is correct.

The odds of a man that large (in 1957 there were even fewer people that tall than today.)
Being found with a head wound exactly ever Connor was reported to be shot. At roughly the same time period Connor was shot.
Then a career criminal is seen at the exact ¹/2 way point between Lima Ohio and Bedford PA. Dumped with a bunch of crap that has thrown the police off for decades (like a professional criminal would do). That's all way too much for me to dismiss.

If the DNA didn't match Connors parents. I think it's much more likley that there is something wrong with the test, or his parents aren't who he thought they were.

I can't even begin to pretend to know how to calculate the odds of this....

Being murders with a rifle in the 1950s? I'm guessing maybe 50 people, put of 180 million, in a given year in the 50s?

Being 6'⁴ and built. Maybe .05% max of US born men were over 6'2

Same color hair.... no idea how to calculate.

Shot in the head? No idea how to calculate.

One being missing, one being unidentified? No idea how to calculate.

Odds of a guy that just happened to be accused of murder with ties to Ft Wayne, and was seen heading back towards Lima Ohio..... no idea how to calculate.

I apologize for rambling. I just can't believe this isn't him.

I'll bet the farm, that Magnum nailed this.

Personally, I doubt it.

First of all, a height of 6'4" was not nearly as rare as you suggest. The average height in the US has decreased in recent decades due to immigration from parts of the world where people tend to be shorter (like South America). 6'4" is 98th percentile, so roughly one man in 50 is that tall or taller. 6'2" is only 94.5 percentile, so about one man in 18 is that tall or taller. The numbers would have been similar back in the 50s.

Moreover, the heights do not match perfectly. Conner was reportedly 6'2", but Mr. Bones' was estimated at 6'4".

Not only that, but it doesn't make sense that Conner would have been moved that far. In those days, moving a body across the county line would have been enough to prevent it from being identified. Few criminals would have risked hauling a dead body that far. It would been far easier to simply bury it, and that's probably what happened to Conner.

Besides, Mr. Bones' was wearing contact lenses, and there is no evidence that Conner wore those (plus someone of Conner's socio-economic status would not have been able to afford them).

Mr. Bones' may have been a murder victim, but it is more likely that he died by his own hand, whoever he was.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Personally, I doubt it.

First of all, a height of 6'4" was not nearly as rare as you suggest. The average height in the US has decreased in recent decades due to immigration from parts of the world where people tend to be shorter (like South America). 6'4" is 98th percentile, so roughly one man in 50 is that tall or taller. 6'2" is only 94.5 percentile, so about one man in 18 is that tall or taller. The numbers would have been similar back in the 50s.

Moreover, the heights do not match perfectly. Conner was reportedly 6'2", but Mr. Bones' was estimated at 6'4".

Not only that, but it doesn't make sense that Conner would have been moved that far. In those days, moving a body across the county line would have been enough to prevent it from being identified. Few criminals would have risked hauling a dead body that far. It would been far easier to simply bury it, and that's probably what happened to Conner.

Besides, Mr. Bones' was wearing contact lenses, and there is no evidence that Conner wore those (plus someone of Conner's socio-economic status would not have been able to afford them).

Mr. Bones' may have been a murder victim, but it is more likely that he died by his own hand, whoever he was.

Even if you are correct, as I once believed given the aforementioned distance between Conner’s murder and Mr.Bones’s body, it would still be nice to conclusively rule Conner out as a candidate. Referring to what Magnum has said on this matter, it appears the testing that has been done is by NO MEANS definitive. Furthermore, building a family tree using Mr. Bones’s DNA would likely enable LA to identify potential relatives even if he isn’t Conner.

 

[Eddie99]

First, I apologize for the typos on my previous post. I was in a hurry.

With regards to the contacts, Connor was a union painter. He probably did ok for himself. I researched a bit on contact lens use in the 50s. My sense is that they were more common than eluded to, in earlier parts of this thread.

As far as moving the body vs. Risk of getting caught. The defendant was witness to be 200 miles away already. The goal was probably to mix up jurisdictions by dumping him in PA.

I don't recall the specifics as to the exact times. But the witness that saw the perp washing out the car in Cadiz saw him at a point in time where there was an 3-5 hour window of opportunity from the time Connor was reported to be shot, then transported to Bedford area, and back the time to backtrack to Cadiz. The logistics fit. Going secondary roads to PA, and back to Cadiz where he was spotted, he had a few hours to load and prep the body, get food & beverage, gas, and such.

Not to mention, the rifle was traced to ft Wayne. Where we know the perp lived.

Way too many things fit together here.

I apologize for repeating this again, it's probably annoying to read. Please indulge me.

Unusually big man.
Head shot
Brown hair.
Connection to gun, perp and city of purchase.
Seen in Cadiz on the exact same route that would have been used to get to Bedford area.
Missing body / unidentified body.
Same caliber rifle.
All these things also occur in the same time period on almost the EXACT same line of latitude.

The only things in the periphery are:
Contact lenses. ( We just don't know enough about Connor. I don't think they have any dental records either.)

The weird books & camping stuff. But they is just weird stuff regardless of whom this might be.

The location. No vehicles abandoned anywhere near the remains. Which means he got there somehow.

The odds are the lab f-ed up. Or the cemetery funeral home (if the parents were exhumed)
Or the family used to compare dna, are not the blood relation that they think they are.

Bottom line is, if the police aren't interested in solving this, it's never going to be solved.

 

[Ozoner]

First, I apologize for the typos on my previous post. I was in a hurry.

With regards to the contacts, Connor was a union painter. He probably did ok for himself. I researched a bit on contact lens use in the 50s. My sense is that they were more common than eluded to, in earlier parts of this thread.

As far as moving the body vs. Risk of getting caught. The defendant was witness to be 200 miles away already. The goal was probably to mix up jurisdictions by dumping him in PA.

I don't recall the specifics as to the exact times. But the witness that saw the perp washing out the car in Cadiz saw him at a point in time where there was an 3-5 hour window of opportunity from the time Connor was reported to be shot, then transported to Bedford area, and back the time to backtrack to Cadiz. The logistics fit. Going secondary roads to PA, and back to Cadiz where he was spotted, he had a few hours to load and prep the body, get food & beverage, gas, and such.

Not to mention, the rifle was traced to ft Wayne. Where we know the perp lived.

Way too many things fit together here.

I apologize for repeating this again, it's probably annoying to read. Please indulge me.

Unusually big man.
Head shot
Brown hair.
Connection to gun, perp and city of purchase.
Seen in Cadiz on the exact same route that would have been used to get to Bedford area.
Missing body / unidentified body.
Same caliber rifle.
All these things also occur in the same time period on almost the EXACT same line of latitude.

The only things in the periphery are:
Contact lenses. ( We just don't know enough about Connor. I don't think they have any dental records either.)

The weird books & camping stuff. But they is just weird stuff regardless of whom this might be.

The location. No vehicles abandoned anywhere near the remains. Which means he got there somehow.

The odds are the lab f-ed up. Or the cemetery funeral home (if the parents were exhumed)
Or the family used to compare dna, are not the blood relation that they think they are.

Bottom line is, if the police aren't interested in solving this, it's never going to be solved.

You continue to try to force the facts to fit a theory that is unsupported by the weight of the evidence.

At 6'4", Mr. Bones could reasonably be described as unusually tall; at 6'2", Conner could not be.

Contact lenses of the 50s were "expensive and fragile" according to Wikipedia. If you have a source that says contact lenses were common in 1957 and within the budget of blue-collar workers, please cite that source. It would contradict all factual information posted so far.

The Conner theory was always a stretch, and the DNA testing disproved it. Familial DNA stands a good chance of solving the case eventually.

 

[Eddie99]

If listing out the elements of Connors murder, and the circumstances if the discovery of the body is "forcing facts" I apologize.

If questioning a bag of random stuff like hardly used camping cookware, poetry books, and contact lenses outweighs everything else we know happened, I apologize for that too.