PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[littlehorn]

A myth.If only that was true.
How are things going Littlehorn?

Good, yourself? Not much going on here. Haven't really looked at the case in a long time now.

 

[littlehorn]

I read that 5,000 people had been interviewed about Betsy's murder. She took a bus back from Hershey. Just grasping at straws, but could someone on the bus have become fixated with her?

Theoretically possible, but there is almost a 24-hour period between her taking the bus, and the murder. Hard to believe someone could have followed her that diligently without being noticed as she went about an abnormal routine that day.

 

[kline]

Good, yourself? Not much going on here. Haven't really looked at the case in a long time now.

Hanging in there! As you can see interestingly enough someone else posted about my favorite obsession case(5 idaho murders...)Which was cool!

 

[littlehorn]

Part I of a 2-part article in the Harrisburg Patriot News just came out today.

This part deals with Betsy and the murder; Part 2 will deal with the investigation and comes out tomorrow, 12/8.

http://www.pennlive.com/specialprojects/index.ssf/2008/12/they_are_old_men_now.html

 

[lost indie]

Part I of a 2-part article in the Harrisburg Patriot News just came out today.

This part deals with Betsy and the murder; Part 2 will deal with the investigation and comes out tomorrow, 12/8.

http://www.pennlive.com/specialprojects/index.ssf/2008/12/they_are_old_men_now.html

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I always knew Betsy was wearing a red jumper and a white top. I hadn't heard that it would have been unusual attire for her. Sounds like she was on her way to meet someone.

 

[littlehorn]

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I always knew Betsy was wearing a red jumper and a white top. I hadn't heard that it would have been unusual attire for her. Sounds like she was on her way to meet someone.

Well, I find that statement problematic...It's one of those things that has come through in all of the articles. The coroner said years ago he felt she was dressed in her "Sunday best."

The part I found more interesting was that she was starting to feel worried and wondering why she was there...Perhaps there was someone she was going to meet, or maybe someone she was dating on the side??

Who knows? Unfortunately much as I'd like to see it solved I think it probably never will be.

Perhaps Betsy was able to compartmentalize her life moreso than some folks. I know I have the ability to live a complete other life while keeping my "mask of sanity" intact. I suppose if something were to happen to me in the process it would seem as random and baffling as what happened to Betsy.

 

[littlehorn]

Here's another interesting piece from the Patriot News today:

http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/122845201814790.xml&coll=1

This covers some of the theories that have been discussed. It's nothing different from what was on the Theories and Rumors page of www.whokilledbetsy.com, but it is interesting and well-done.

 

[sneezy]

littlehorn, is www.whokilledbetsy.com down? I can't see it

 

[littlehorn]

littlehorn, is www.whokilledbetsy.com down? I can't see it

Yes, I took it down a couple of months ago.

The ball was rolling and the case was starting to get national attention...So it was no longer necessary.

 

[kline]

Well, I find that statement problematic...It's one of those things that has come through in all of the articles. The coroner said years ago he felt she was dressed in her "Sunday best."

The part I found more interesting was that she was starting to feel worried and wondering why she was there...Perhaps there was someone she was going to meet, or maybe someone she was dating on the side??

Who knows? Unfortunately much as I'd like to see it solved I think it probably never will be.

Perhaps Betsy was able to compartmentalize her life moreso than some folks. I know I have the ability to live a complete other life while keeping my "mask of sanity" intact. I suppose if something were to happen to me in the process it would seem as random and baffling as what happened to Betsy.

Very Good point.
I know I have aquaintances who dont know lots of other people I know.
And I have different levels of relationship with many of them.
Not out of a desire to keep them seperate just the way my life is structured.
And if some little alcove of Betsy's life died with her that could be where the key is and its with her in her grave for eternity.
Very possible.
Especially for a college kid.
Your making new relationships and meeting people all the time you might not tell your folks or fiancee about.
Always glad to see you post Littlehorn.

 

[littlehorn]

Very Good point.
I know I have aquaintances who dont know lots of other people I know.
And I have different levels of relationship with many of them.
Not out of a desire to keep them seperate just the way my life is structured.
And if some little alcove of Betsy's life died with her that could be where the key is and its with her in her grave for eternity.
Very possible.
Especially for a college kid.
Your making new relationships and meeting people all the time you might not tell your folks or fiancee about.
Always glad to see you post Littlehorn.

Good to hear from you, too.

Something could easily have developed in Betsy's life that she was uncomfortable with or could not/did not tell anyone about and which is what came home to roost that day in November.

I suffer from severe clinical depression and even though I lived at home during college, when I told dad after I graduated that I had pretty much come within inches of eating a bullet several times over the previous three years, he was shell-shocked.

"I had no idea you felt bad. You seemed normal!"

Compartmentalizing can be good but generally it seems it can be bad.

 

[kline]

Good to hear from you, too.

Something could easily have developed in Betsy's life that she was uncomfortable with or could not/did not tell anyone about and which is what came home to roost that day in November.

I suffer from severe clinical depression and even though I lived at home during college, when I told dad after I graduated that I had pretty much come within inches of eating a bullet several times over the previous three years, he was shell-shocked.

"I had no idea you felt bad. You seemed normal!"

Compartmentalizing can be good but generally it seems it can be bad.

Deppression is something I struggle with as well.
Its something I always have to be aware of.
I was thinking about my life back when I was in my early 20's after these posts yesterday.
Man,I did a great deal of compartmentalizing.
My parents,seeing two different women at once, my life partying and running around with my friends,my job...I would hate to have been an investigator trying to unravel that mess if something had happened to me back then.
Most anyone they talked to would have been unaware of whole other areas of my life and scores of people I knew.
It makes you wonder as far as Betsy's case goes.
Hope your staying on top of the depression Littlehorn I know it isnt easy sometimes.Wishing you good Mojo in that department.

 

[littlehorn]

Deppression is something I struggle with as well.
Its something I always have to be aware of.
I was thinking about my life back when I was in my early 20's after these posts yesterday.
Man,I did a great deal of compartmentalizing.
My parents,seeing two different women at once, my life partying and running around with my friends,my job...I would hate to have been an investigator trying to unravel that mess if something had happened to me back then.
Most anyone they talked to would have been unaware of whole other areas of my life and scores of people I knew.
It makes you wonder as far as Betsy's case goes.
Hope your staying on top of the depression Littlehorn I know it isnt easy sometimes.Wishing you good Mojo in that department.

Thanks man. Yeah, I think if the same thing here had happened to either you or I, they'd still be wondering about it. Unfortunately, if it was someone she had only recently known, or someone she was actively keeping separate, we probably will never know.

 

[Stella]

Perhaps Betsy's murder was politically motivated? She was only on campus for 2 months, but was involved in at least one political event that we know of. Emotions were running high on all sides. Could she have ticked off someone who decided to make a symbolic statement by literally giving her a "bleeding heart"? Were all her political activities checked out by LE? Could she have secretly become involved with SDS or Weathermen, then decided she wanted to break from them and they killed her? Something wasn't right in her life, but what was it?

 

[maconrich]

Littlehorn, since you closed your site (which I totally understand) have you considered creating a yahoo (hotmail or whatever) email addy just for this and posting it after the articles (in the comments section)?

I just finished reading the comments after the first part of the article and am getting ready to read part two. But it's clear people read your comment and it makes me wonder if there might be a chance that you could hear from either someone who knows something (but hasn't/doesn't want to come forward to the media or police) or maybe even from the killer himself?

I know you directed people to this thread, but since WS has restrictions on email addys that people can use to register it could put off someone wanting to remain anonymous.

Just something for your consideration...

 

[littlehorn]

Perhaps Betsy's murder was politically motivated? She was only on campus for 2 months, but was involved in at least one political event that we know of. Emotions were running high on all sides. Could she have ticked off someone who decided to make a symbolic statement by literally giving her a "bleeding heart"? Were all her political activities checked out by LE? Could she have secretly become involved with SDS or Weathermen, then decided she wanted to break from them and they killed her? Something wasn't right in her life, but what was it?

I suppose it's possible that something political could be behind, but is there a precedent for these fringe groups like SDS and the Weathermen killing someone who tried to split with them? Just curious, my one history prof was really into the 1960s racial/anti-war movement but that wasn't my cup of tea so I don't know too much about how those groups operated.

 

[littlehorn]

Littlehorn, since you closed your site (which I totally understand) have you considered creating a yahoo (hotmail or whatever) email addy just for this and posting it after the articles (in the comments section)?

I just finished reading the comments after the first part of the article and am getting ready to read part two. But it's clear people read your comment and it makes me wonder if there might be a chance that you could hear from either someone who knows something (but hasn't/doesn't want to come forward to the media or police) or maybe even from the killer himself?

I know you directed people to this thread, but since WS has restrictions on email addys that people can use to register it could put off someone wanting to remain anonymous.

Just something for your consideration...

I should have just put my personal email address...It's not really secret, I just wanted to send folks here because I didn't have anything like you were talking about.

I do have [email protected] if anyone needs to email anonymously. I don't check it often though.

One problem is that the way the newspaper sites work is that those comments are only linked to the article through that specific link. If you go to Pennlive.com now and search for the story, it won't have the comment section at the end. Only someone seeing the original link would see those comments.

I wish they left the comment section attached to all of the story so that people could see it after the first few days.

 

[Stella]

littlehorn, your reply shook another idea loose from my mind. Could she have been a police informant; gathering information about radicals or drug dealers? In a way, this makes more sense to me. From my experience of these things, a good number of informants aren't the stereotypical losers you see on TV shows; they look like respectable students and adults. They look like Betsy did. And if her cover was blown, she very likely was in danger.

 

[littlehorn]

littlehorn, your reply shook another idea loose from my mind. Could she have been a police informant; gathering information about radicals or drug dealers? In a way, this makes more sense to me. From my experience of these things, a good number of informants aren't the stereotypical losers you see on TV shows; they look like respectable students and adults. They look like Betsy did. And if her cover was blown, she very likely was in danger.

That was one rumor that was floated back in the day. Specifically, that she was undercover DEA. No evidence has ever come forth to support it. In fact, one of the police officers called to her murder was undercover informing like that. No one in PSP or even the FBI files has indicated that she was an informant. If it is the case, FOIA and other sunshine laws have not brought it forth. But it is an interesting thought.

 

[maconrich]

I noticed that the first officer was undercover and figured he would have a good idea who the key players were in the various student groups on campus, and if Betsy was involved with any of them. I don't know about SDS specifically but I do know a lot of groups along those lines tended to be overly paranoid due to gvt infiltration. --In reality they had reason to be, but there were cases where they believed people were gvt informants when they weren't. A good example of that was the murder of Anna Mae which was, most likely, a result of various members of the American Indian Movement believing she was working with the FBI. Sadly that type of paranoia exists to this day, and I'm sure there were many cases like Anna Mae's that haven't been exposed yet (and may never be).

Following the above line of thinking, I could see a scenario where Betsy may have been drawn in by a male who belonged to one of the underground movements - perhaps someone who was very charismatic, intelligent and who she found herself spending more time with on the side. And if it was believed she was an informant (or working undercover) it could have led to her murder. *But* it seems the agent should have been aware of this - and of any involvement she may have had with anyone that belonged to the groups being observed/infiltrated. Correct?

So what about her ex brother in law? Did LE make sure that he had an solid alibi? He noted he'd spoken to her on Thanksgiving but he (or someone else from her hometown) had plenty of time to get to Penn State. I thought his explanation about why they wrote the letter asking that her killer not receive the DP was a bit odd - mainly because the police hadn't arrested anyone or named any suspects. I can see the theory behind the request but the timing makes it a bit suspicious?

Also in your experiment, what angle did you determine that she was attacked from? You stated it wasn't from behind, and I remember reading what you'd had on your page and it made a lot of sense -- I just can't remember :waitasec: TYIA!