PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[littlehorn]

Leanardo!How could I forget?
Im sure it was hard for her sister.Wishing good Mojo to you and her

Thanks. Apparently her mother is still alive as well and it is hard for her as expected.

 

[cbcrime]

I'm glad that you were able to connect with the family. It must have been incredibly difficult for them. You mentioned changing the crime. Do you still think it is random? If feel uncomfortable answering that I understand.

It's funny there is a press conference on the Ray Gricar case - but from Lewisburg not Centre.

Hope those eggs are viable. Pics would be fun.

 

[gaia227]

Hasn't been mentioned before, but thanks for bringing it up. Pam West has been very helpful to our case with her notes, etc., being from a time when a lot more people were still alive and memory was less foggy.

The Gricar thing is odd but I know a bit more than meets the eye with that case as well and it seems unrelated in the sense that it was NOT an Aardsma suspect involved in his disappearance.

Agreed, I don't think so either, just thought it was interesting. It is a small world though. Thanks for eveyrthing you do for Betsy and her family. I am sure they are eternally grateful.

 

[littlehorn]

I'm glad that you were able to connect with the family. It must have been incredibly difficult for them. You mentioned changing the crime. Do you still think it is random? If feel uncomfortable answering that I understand.

It's funny there is a press conference on the Ray Gricar case - but from Lewisburg not Centre.

Hope those eggs are viable. Pics would be fun.

My partner and I on the case (my wife thinks I'm nuts, LOL, so a buddy is helping me) aren't sure WHAT to think about the stuff that we know. One thing is for sure, it makes it a lot more than meets the eye. It's stuff that the police didn't release.

I guess I could sum it up by saying that it makes it seem like less of a "perfect crime" and more possible that there might be some resolution someday.

 

[littlehorn]

I'm glad that you were able to connect with the family. It must have been incredibly difficult for them. You mentioned changing the crime. Do you still think it is random? If feel uncomfortable answering that I understand.

It's funny there is a press conference on the Ray Gricar case - but from Lewisburg not Centre.

Hope those eggs are viable. Pics would be fun.

My partner and I on the case (my wife thinks I'm nuts, LOL, so a buddy is helping me) aren't sure WHAT to think about the stuff that we know. One thing is for sure, it makes it a lot more than meets the eye. It's stuff that the police didn't release.

I guess I could sum it up by saying that it makes it seem like less of a "perfect crime" and more possible that there might be some resolution someday.

I should know about

 

[cbcrime]

That is encouraging and I am glad that you have some help. I understand about spouses mine thinks I'm nuts also. Though he is retired LE - so I pick his brain!

 

[littlehorn]

That is encouraging and I am glad that you have some help. I understand about spouses mine thinks I'm nuts also. Though he is retired LE - so I pick his brain!

Sorry about the double-post. Computer froze up and I assumed it had not gone through.

I should know about the turtles when I get back from vacation.

 

[littlehorn]

Agreed, I don't think so either, just thought it was interesting. It is a small world though. Thanks for eveyrthing you do for Betsy and her family. I am sure they are eternally grateful.

It is interesting,partly because we have discussed among ourselves whether perhaps there was some kind of relationship between the case and Gricar's disappearance.

I think though that Ray, being DA, did not have time to actively pursue "leads" so to speak, and so would likely not have been involved to the point of being a target. And police are still baffled about both cases so I doubt there is a connection...But you have to wonder!

 

[rozey]

littlehorn,
I am a Centre County resident and this case has always haunted me as has the murder of Dana Bailey. The effectiveness of the local le is disappointing to say the least. In reviewing the information released about Dana's case I recognized that the car seen on the night of her murder and the description of a male in the area resembled someone familiar. I reported this to the le, they questioned the person and the response was, "the person in question said he never owned that type of vehicle". Sorry not him...
Thank you for keeping Betsy's case alive.

 

[littlehorn]

littlehorn,
I am a Centre County resident and this case has always haunted me as has the murder of Dana Bailey. The effectiveness of the local le is disappointing to say the least. In reviewing the information released about Dana's case I recognized that the car seen on the night of her murder and the description of a male in the area resembled someone familiar. I reported this to the le, they questioned the person and the response was, "the person in question said he never owned that type of vehicle". Sorry not him...
Thank you for keeping Betsy's case alive.

The Dana Bailey case has always bothered me, too. LE did so much to mess that case up, it was unreal. Gricar released the wrong picture of the victim to the newspapers originally, etc. There's so much there that's unreal how bad they are. I have heard other stories about this issue.

The cops had 5 major suspects in the Bailey case. One was a police officer. One was a professor's son, who has since died/committed suicide. Another suspect committed suicide also, and two others I don't know about. They seem to get in their head who they think it is, and just go with that to the exclusion of everyone else, including tips from citizens.

 

[littlehorn]

Keep an eye out for State College Magazine, November issue. Should be some major announcements from our team about information on the case which has never been publicly revealed by law enforcement.

 

[MaryLiz]

Keep an eye out for State College Magazine, November issue. Should be some major announcements from our team about information on the case which has never been publicly revealed by law enforcement.

I can't wait to see it..NOVEMBER!!!! We have to wait that long..LOL! Oh well, at least there will be something new to read about it. Hopefully the info they release which has never been seen before might be read by someone who can ultimately help with the investigation and move it forward. That's great...thanks for the info.

 

[littlehorn]

I can't wait to see it..NOVEMBER!!!! We have to wait that long..LOL! Oh well, at least there will be something new to read about it. Hopefully the info they release which has never been seen before might be read by someone who can ultimately help with the investigation and move it forward. That's great...thanks for the info.

Actually, just so you know, WE will be releasing the info...The police have given us NOTHING, and the info we have uncovered is based on talking to certain retired investigators who were helpful. Several were not -- to the point of being jerks about the whole thing.

I do hope our new info being released will get people thinking. But in the meantime mark your calendars for State College Magazine's November issue.

 

[littlehorn]

Just an FYI to folks reading this thread, I put up a link to Jeanine Nicarico's Memorial Literacy Fund on www.whokilledbetsy.com. Hoping some folks will see fit to donate as I will once I get back from vacation.

What a sad case that one was.

 

[kline]

Have a great vacation Littlehorn!
Cant wait to hear about the new info!

 

[littlehorn]

Have a great vacation Littlehorn!
Cant wait to hear about the new info!

Thanks! Not trying to be deliberately cryptic or hold out info -- but my buddy is a writer by trade so we'd like to make the magazine article one which a lot of people want to read, as that helps him out.

 

[Rhett]

Where do you get that magazine? Never heard of it.

 

[Talisman]

Just bumping Betsy's case up. We have many new members and one might have some good theories.


p.s. littlehorn, hope your vacation is/was relaxing.:cheerful:

 

[shadowangel]

Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate...And throwing a few different ideas out there...
I read through most of the posts, and some of the articles. Of course, there is a lot of contradictory information, so this is more of an intellectual exercise than any real "sleuthing". According to the primary article I read, Betsy was found by another female student. (I know, there are several accounts of who actually found her). This same student reported hearing screams and the sounds of books falling. Then two males walked from the area, one of them stating that "someone had better help this girl". (Daily Collegian, 12/2/69). The student then claimed she stayed with Betsy some 15 to 20 minutes before help arrived, though she continuously called for assistance (though the length of time is disputed by the LE rep quoted in the article). If medical assistance had arrived earlier, I feel it possible she may have survived.
Now...As I've read most of the posts, a common idea is that this was committed by a jealous wannabe-boyfriend, upset at her recent engagement, or a thrill-kill. However, there is another possiblity, with the scenario arranged in the news article.
What if this were not committed by someone jealous of the soon-to-husband, but someone jealous of Betsy? The student hears screams which apparently no one else heard. She reports two suspicious men, one of whom speaks to her, intentionally pointing out the victim. She goes to Betsy's aid, staying with her and calling for help (instead of running from the stacks and calling for an ambulance herself). The time it takes for someone else to finally call for help virtually ensures Betsy's death.
Others have commented on the calculated, nearly methodical and cold-blooded nature of this murder. I have no difficultly believing that a woman could be this methodical, possibly more so than a man would be.
It is stated in the article that, due to the angle of the blade penetration, that the killer was behind Betsy, placing one hand over her mouth and stabbing with the other. As we tend to consider the majority of people right-handed, I am assuming the angle of penetration is from right to left and downward (and overhand swing, over Betsy's shoulder, the knife held in the right hand).
Again, for thought's sake...What if the killer were left-handed? An overhand swing, the knife in the left hand, would (to my thinking, at least) penetrate in quite the same way. According to this same article, the wound was only three inches deep. If the blade were very sharp, I wouldn't think an overabundance of strength would be necessary to penetrate three inches.
That being said, how could someone attack Betsy from the front? If she knew the person...Expected the person to be there...Or felt no threat until it was too late.
As she would problably feel if the killer were a female. I have to wonder if the boyfriend left any women scorned when he became engaged to Betsy.

Again, I'm sure most of this is contradicted by other information. Just posting some random thoughts to get the brain cells working.

 

[kline]

Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate...And throwing a few different ideas out there...
I read through most of the posts, and some of the articles. Of course, there is a lot of contradictory information, so this is more of an intellectual exercise than any real "sleuthing". According to the primary article I read, Betsy was found by another female student. (I know, there are several accounts of who actually found her). This same student reported hearing screams and the sounds of books falling. Then two males walked from the area, one of them stating that "someone had better help this girl". (Daily Collegian, 12/2/69). The student then claimed she stayed with Betsy some 15 to 20 minutes before help arrived, though she continuously called for assistance (though the length of time is disputed by the LE rep quoted in the article). If medical assistance had arrived earlier, I feel it possible she may have survived.
Now...As I've read most of the posts, a common idea is that this was committed by a jealous wannabe-boyfriend, upset at her recent engagement, or a thrill-kill. However, there is another possiblity, with the scenario arranged in the news article.
What if this were not committed by someone jealous of the soon-to-husband, but someone jealous of Betsy? The student hears screams which apparently no one else heard. She reports two suspicious men, one of whom speaks to her, intentionally pointing out the victim. She goes to Betsy's aid, staying with her and calling for help (instead of running from the stacks and calling for an ambulance herself). The time it takes for someone else to finally call for help virtually ensures Betsy's death.
Others have commented on the calculated, nearly methodical and cold-blooded nature of this murder. I have no difficultly believing that a woman could be this methodical, possibly more so than a man would be.
It is stated in the article that, due to the angle of the blade penetration, that the killer was behind Betsy, placing one hand over her mouth and stabbing with the other. As we tend to consider the majority of people right-handed, I am assuming the angle of penetration is from right to left and downward (and overhand swing, over Betsy's shoulder, the knife held in the right hand).
Again, for thought's sake...What if the killer were left-handed? An overhand swing, the knife in the left hand, would (to my thinking, at least) penetrate in quite the same way. According to this same article, the wound was only three inches deep. If the blade were very sharp, I wouldn't think an overabundance of strength would be necessary to penetrate three inches.
That being said, how could someone attack Betsy from the front? If she knew the person...Expected the person to be there...Or felt no threat until it was too late.
As she would problably feel if the killer were a female. I have to wonder if the boyfriend left any women scorned when he became engaged to Betsy.

Again, I'm sure most of this is contradicted by other information. Just posting some random thoughts to get the brain cells working.

Intriguing possibilty.
It plays just as well as any scenario ive been able to come up with
It would be interesting to know if amy link between this young woman and Betsy's fiancee was ever explored?
Of course one would think the fiancee might have a red light or two go off when a shunned ex happened to be the first on scene to Betsy's stabbing but who knows?
I think this kind of thinking outside the box is exactly what is needed.
Good job!