PA PA - Carol Dougherty, 9, Bristol, 22 Oct 1962

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I can't see anyone doing such a horrible thing anywhere, least of all in church! But the sad truth is that it did happen, behind latched doors.

Especially this church. It is on the middle of a busy street.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

]If it wasn't the priest, and the priest knew who did it, could be he wouldn't say anything if the killer knew about the sins of the priest. [/COLOR]Kind of like, you tell on me I'm going to expose you for what you are.

I can't remember, do they have DNA from the crime? If so why not exhume the priest's body, and Schreider's body, the two that passed the lie detector tests.

I have not read anywhere where the priest had sexual intercourse with any of his female parishioners. Or even attempted to have sexual intercourse with any of them. If that has been confirmed to be not true than accept my apologizes for not knowing.

But it has been a hunch for me since i read this case and just followed up reading was has been recently posted.

I am one whom believes that the priest in question didn't commit the crime. But I do believe that the priest did watch and listen to the crime being committed. He may have heard a commotion and went to investigate and appeared from behind a curtain or dark corner out of sight and watched and listen to the young girl being attacked, raped and murdered and he did nothing. The priest propbably seen the killer during and after when he was leaving but never came forward to give this information as far as we know. After the killer left he went up to where she laid and knew then he would be blame for this crime do to his past, and then his behavior after leaving the church became suspicious.

In his mind watching a young girl being raped and murdered and not doing anything to help would have made him look more sinister being a priest than the demon that did it.

This priest lived in a fantasize world when it came to his young girls. A fantasize world that evolved touching and rubbing parts of there bodies and probably kissing them at some point. But a ultimate fantasize of actually raping a young girl was just that. Until this day, when he watched and listened to his ultimate fantasy being committed right before his eyes.

I believe he lived with the guilt associated with what he did and didn't do that day. Even with a past such as his, he knew what he witnessed and did nothing to help was very wrong and something he himself would not do. I don't believe he ever told a living soul watch he watched that day and took it to his grave.

 

[alliemay]

http://www.bishop-accountability.or...yCourierTimes_HauntedBy_Joseph_Sabadish_1.htm

"I hated the guy, I was afraid of him," Nelis said of Sabadish. "He didn't like kids. He'd slap you around, call you stupid. You never knew what would set him off."

bishop-accountability.org/pa_philadelphia/Philly_GJ_report.htm#sabadish

Under incidents it say's "no entry", strange since there is more detailed information on other priests. I wonder why.

In one of my posts I had stated that the priest passed the lie detector test, but I found an article that said he did not pass it. So it's kind of confusing.

http://crimsonshadows.net/?p=360
"Among the many individuals interviewed and then released in 1962, one individual not only seemed to fit the profile–he had claimed to a friend that he was sterile–but failed the lie detector test as well. (Canavan, Bucks County Courier Times, 1977)"

 

[dotr]

Wonder if any of the priest's DNA can still be found at the church?
Was he inclined to write letters to the newspaper editor, what about members of his congregation?

 

[alliemay]

I had thought about the fact that it was a busy street in the middle of the day. Would someone take the chance of being seen going into the church right after Carol Ann went in? What if this someone was already in there, priest or parishioner, and afterwards when out the side door. Or, this person originally came in the side door and out the side door. I wonder if Carol Ann was going to pray? If she was, she probably never even made it to the alter.

Was the housekeeper ever given a lie detector test? I also wonder if there is anyone actively working this cold case now.

 

[OEJ]

http://www.bishop-accountability.or...yCourierTimes_HauntedBy_Joseph_Sabadish_1.htm

"I hated the guy, I was afraid of him," Nelis said of Sabadish. "He didn't like kids. He'd slap you around, call you stupid. You never knew what would set him off."

bishop-accountability.org/pa_philadelphia/Philly_GJ_report.htm#sabadish

Under incidents it say's "no entry", strange since there is more detailed information on other priests. I wonder why.

In one of my posts I had stated that the priest passed the lie detector test, but I found an article that said he did not pass it. So it's kind of confusing.

http://crimsonshadows.net/?p=360
"Among the many individuals interviewed and then released in 1962, one individual not only seemed to fit the profile–he had claimed to a friend that he was sterile–but failed the lie detector test as well. (Canavan, Bucks County Courier Times, 1977)"

A nasty piece of work this priest, and what do you know, another little girl was murdered in another little town nearby while he was in the vicinity. Little girls just seem to get murdered around him.

 

[bessie]

I had thought about the fact that it was a busy street in the middle of the day. Would someone take the chance of being seen going into the church right after Carol Ann went in? What if this someone was already in there, priest or parishioner, and afterwards when out the side door. Or, this person originally came in the side door and out the side door. I wonder if Carol Ann was going to pray? If she was, she probably never even made it to the alter.

Was the housekeeper ever given a lie detector test? I also wonder if there is anyone actively working this cold case now.

I don't believe there is a side door. Also, Carol Ann's parents said she often stopped in the church to pray, and she like to do so in the choir loft.

As for the perp being a person already inside the church, do you mean a parishioner who went there to pray? I know I'm repeating what I said in my previous post, but I can't grasp the notion of a person praying in church, and suddenly switching into attack mode when a little girl walks in. Unless the reason he was in church was to quell the urges that tormented him. I suppose that could happen, but what an odd and terrible coincidence it would be.

The Doughertys described their daughter as a religious girl who often "made a visit" on the spur of the moment. Her favorite place to pray was St. Mark's choirloft.

Bucks County Courier Times February 7, 1977 Pt 2

Carol Ann's father told police the girl often stopped at the church in the afternoon to pray.

Strangled body of girl, 10 found in church choir loft

 

[bessie]

I agree about the time and the familiarity. You would think someone off the street would be concerned a priest might catch him. A priest might feel the community would find him beyond reproach even if the housekeeper did say she saw him which she didn't.

I see it that way, too. IF it was the priest, I think he was confident that the housekeeper didn't recognize him (maybe he knew she was near sighted), and/or wouldn't say a word to implicate him if she did, because she'd by 100% convinced of his innocence. JMO

 

[alliemay]

Oh ok, I didn't know there was not a side door. I think that fact makes the priest more likely. Are there any pictures of a back door entrance? Which of course only the priest, cleaning lady or maintenance would use.

 

[bessie]

Oh ok, I didn't know there was not a side door. I think that fact makes the priest more likely. Are there any pictures of a back door entrance? Which of course only the priest, cleaning lady or maintenance would use.

I wasn't able to zoom in on the back from google satellite view. I might try again in google earth because I'd like to see the rear exterior, myself.

 

[TheDiva]

I have not read anywhere where the priest had sexual intercourse with any of his female parishioners. Or even attempted to have sexual intercourse with any of them. If that has been confirmed to be not true than accept my apologizes for not knowing.

Unfortunately, I personally know at least one of his alleged victims. I also believe, if I'm not mistaken, that there is a recorded phone call, done by an angry husband, that has him threatening to rape a woman he had a 'friendship' with. Did I misread, or is there a recording somewhere of that conversation?

It wouldn't surprise me if he did witness this attack, but I'm more inclined to believe he stumbled upon it and either helped conceal it, or helped with the actual murder itself. Again, this is merely speculation on my part. I realize, having known him personally and NOT having pleasant memories of him, this might slant my view, so I emphasize that this is JUST MY OPINION!

 

[alliemay]

It makes you wonder how many other victims he had, that have not come forward. What stays with me is the victim who stated that kids were "slapped" around. This to me would not be someone who gently "grooms". This shows me that this person had two sides.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I wasn't able to zoom in on the back from google satellite view. I might try again in google earth because I'd like to see the rear exterior, myself.

I'll go take pictures one day. I think I have some on my laptop. If not I'll take some more. In the back there is a cemetery. If I remember right there is aback side door on both sides of the church. To a parking lot on one side and the side street on the other.




Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So I have a new lead about where she may be buried. Planning to check it out in the next weeks.

 

[Jmoose]

But that is not who he chose as victims. Groomers know exactly how to groom and who is a good target. They can tell whether someone is a good subject or not. He would have just pulled back. I just don't see it happening in the church with open doors to the street.


Forgive the autocorrect. Tapatalk has a mind of its own.

Wasn't the door locked from the inside, as the lady from the bank discovered?

 

[Donamena]

Must go back to read this thread. Priest,?

 

[Donamena]

Intersting PDF- some 'suspensions' from 1976 and '85, Some folk just seem above the law.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/2005_09_21_Philly_GrandJury/Philly_C_46_Sabadish.pdf

Edited to add this little gem

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/pa_philadelphia/Philly_GJ_report.htm

The church has long arms.

 

[bessie]

Wasn't the door locked from the inside, as the lady from the bank discovered?

Yes, it was. And there was no other entrance except from inside through the sacristy.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Look at the Archdiocese of Philadelphia website / office of investigations. The length of the list of credible allegations is shocking. He is listed.

 

[dotr]

The church has long arms.

..... and deep pockets!