PA - Conner Snyder, 8, & Brinley, 4, hangings, Berks Co., 23 Sept 2019 *Mom arrested* *GRAPHIC* #2

[gitana1]

I know this is a very old post, but oh well.

You and I tend to follow the same cases and alot of the time, a mother is the suspect and I think I know why I choose some cases over others.

As a child of an abusive mother, I need to understand the psychology behind it. My mother had many narcissistic traits, was an alcoholic and drug addict and was diagnosed with a few mental health diagnoses and also completed suicide. She also had my 2 younger siblings removed by DCF from her care. I was removed also but not by DCF. I was the oldest and only one not legally removed, so she still had some access to me but not the other 2 after they were removed. Sorry, got off track...

Anyway, the cases that feature an abusive/killer mother have alot of good information about why a mother would do these things, not in a defending them type way, but to shed light on what must be wrong with a mother that allowed their brains to malfunction so badly.

I see alot of my own mother in these women and I guess it helps me to understand that it was her who was flawed, not me. YMMV, but I think that's why I follow them. I can empathize with the children in these cases better because I have been them and they are me.

In my mother's case, the abuses were generational and so were the mental health issues. I inherited the mental health issues, but thankfully the abuse and addiction and all that comes with it, has ended with my mother. And maybe the reason I was the one that ended the line of abuse comes from the fact that I have had an interest in, been reading and learning about true crime since I was somewhere around 6 or 7 years old... oddly enough, my mother was a major reader of true crime books which is why I had access to them at such a young age. So short story made way too long to say, I think many Websleuthers choose to read about certain cases because they can see themselves in the victim (we are survivors, not victims but I think you understand what I mean) and may need to understand the perpetrator better.

JMO, YMMV, ETC ETC

Wow. That’s a powerful post.

I am always amazed by those like you who are able to overcome childhood trauma and not repeat it. What makes some able to rise above? What makes people like you survive and persevere?

It’s incredible.

And it’s research I would like to see. Research into trauma and how some overcome. I feel like we need more study into pathways to heal trauma and not continue the pattern.

Also, I’m sorry you went through that. It’s never a child’s fault. Never.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yeah and there’s a difference between being mentally ill and being not guilty by reason of insanity.

I think many criminals, if not most, are mentally ill. Usually personality disordered.

But there are millions of people with mental illness who would never consider harming someone. These people for the most part, are choosing to do what they do. They have free will, despite their mental health issues. They choose evil.

Unless their mental illness makes it so they’re so psychotic they actually do not know what they’re doing (squeezing a neck thinking it’s a lemon is the example we were given in law school, which would probably never happen), or don’t believe what they’re doing is wrong, there’s no chance they can be declared not guilty by reason of insanity.

Insanity is different than just mentally ill.

Planning and/or hiding the crime typically and quickly eliminates a successful insanity defense.

Insane people don’t cover up the crime. They call 911 (I killed my kids). Or they walk down the street naked, and covered in blood.

They have long histories of severe, serious psychosis and hospitalizations. Inability to care for themselves or others. Etc.

Not what we find in this case or almost any case we see.

I have missed posting with you my dear friend. I've always greatly admired you for the wealth of knowledge you willingly share with all of us. But, most of all you are one of the kindest posters I've ever had the privilege to post with.

You not only post with great respect for everyone you do it with such grace, and good common sense.

I couldn't agree with you more. AGAIN! LOL!

Very few defendants are truly mentally insane under criminal judicial standards at the time the murders were committed.

As you said, usually the evidence of planning, the actual way the murders were carried out, and just as importantly is the evidence showing how they tried to coverup the murders afterwards.... shows they weren't mentally insane at the time.

Their own actions before, during, and afterwards defeats the assertion they were mentally insane at the time.

The recent stats I've read state only a very small percentage (1 to 3 percent) even try this defense, and overall even if they claim it during trial less than 1 percent are successful. Imo, some try this defense for there simply isn't any other one to go with.

Some states like my homestate of Georgia have enacted laws that even if the jury finds the defendant mentally insane at the time they can still be found guilty, if the evidence supports it, and the sentence imposed can be the same as if the defendant had been found guilty without this defense.

The courts state the convicted can be treated in prison just as well now instead of sent to a mental hospital.

As you know those who were deemed mentally insane were usually sent to mental institutions, and can be released at anytime if the mental health experts agree. The length of time sometimes have been very short even though the murders were horrific.

In some instances of those released from a mental health facility turned right around when released to do more heinous crimes against innocent victims. I believe those in that category were smart enough to outsmart even the finest psychiatrists or psychologists. Most likely these defendants were psychopaths or sociopaths or some other personality disorder as you have mentioned.

I've really tried not to dwell on this case for it haunts me to even think about it.

Its unbelievable that any mom could be so sadistic, barbaric, and cold to the two precious babies she brought into this world
We will never know fully what they both had endured in their short lives in earth by the subhuman pretending to be their mom.

What haunts me too is she blamed her little son for all of it when she knew she had cruelly murdered him along with murdering his precious baby sister.

BUT, look at how many threads we have here recently involving the heinous murders of children, and the majority of them are where a parent solely murdered them or coconspired with another.

The common denominator in so many of these murders of children seem to involve their own moms. Moms like this creature who was the sole murderer. Or single moms conspiring, and equally participating with a live in, or bf to abuse, and murder their children, and equal in the cover ups including discarding the murdered children's bodies.

Or coconspiring with the bio dad to do the horrible things they do against their own children.

For years we have stressed 'stranger danger's to our children, yet the overwhelming worst enemy ...neglected, grossly abused in all forms, and murdered children is not done by strangers. But the worst enemy they truly have to fear the majority of the time resides right in the home with them.

I pray every day for all children who've been neglected, abused, and murdered, and for all of those out there so scared, and voiceless who are going through their own hell.

Jmhoo

 

[gitana1]

I have missed posting with you my dear friend. I've always greatly admired you for the wealth of knowledge you willingly share with all of us. But, most of all you are one of the kindest posters I've ever had the privilege to post with.

You not only post with great respect for everyone you do it with such grace, and good common sense.

I couldn't agree with you more. AGAIN! LOL!

Very few defendants are truly mentally insane under criminal judicial standards at the time the murders were committed.

As you said, usually the evidence of planning, the actual way the murders were carried out, and just as importantly is the evidence showing how they tried to coverup the murders afterwards.... shows they weren't mentally insane at the time.

Their own actions before, during, and afterwards defeats the assertion they were mentally insane at the time.

The recent stats I've read state only a very small percentage (1 to 3 percent) even try this defense, and overall even if they claim it during trial less than 1 percent are successful. Imo, some try this defense for there simply isn't any other one to go with.

Some states like my homestate of Georgia have enacted laws that even if the jury finds the defendant mentally insane at the time they can still be found guilty, if the evidence supports it, and the sentence imposed can be the same as if the defendant had been found guilty without this defense.

The courts state the convicted can be treated in prison just as well now instead of sent to a mental hospital.

As you know those who were deemed mentally insane were usually sent to mental institutions, and can be released at anytime if the mental health experts agree. The length of time sometimes have been very short even though the murders were horrific.

In some instances of those released from a mental health facility turned right around when released to do more heinous crimes against innocent victims. I believe those in that category were smart enough to outsmart even the finest psychiatrists or psychologists. Most likely these defendants were psychopaths or sociopaths or some other personality disorder as you have mentioned.

I've really tried not to dwell on this case for it haunts me to even think about it.

Its unbelievable that any mom could be so sadistic, barbaric, and cold to the two precious babies she brought into this world
We will never know fully what they both had endured in their short lives in earth by the subhuman pretending to be their mom.

What haunts me too is she blamed her little son for all of it when she knew she had cruelly murdered him along with murdering his precious baby sister.

BUT, look at how many threads we have here recently involving the heinous murders of children, and the majority of them are where a parent solely murdered them or coconspired with another.

The common denominator in so many of these murders of children seem to involve their own moms. Moms like this creature who was the sole murderer. Or single moms conspiring, and equally participating with a live in, or bf to abuse, and murder their children, and equal in the cover ups including discarding the murdered children's bodies.

Or coconspiring with the bio dad to do the horrible things they do against their own children.

For years we have stressed 'stranger danger's to our children, yet the overwhelming worst enemy ...neglected, grossly abused in all forms, and murdered children is not done by strangers. But the worst enemy they truly have to fear the majority of the time resides right in the home with them.

I pray every day for all children who've been neglected, abused, and murdered, and for all of those out there so scared, and voiceless who are going through their own hell.

Jmhoo

That’s the horrible truth - that kids are more at risk at home than with a stranger.

This case is one I set aside for awhile after the details came out. Too revolting and horrific.

She’s truly, truly evil. I mean killing her babies is bad enough. But she researched and carbon monoxide would’ve been painless at least. Instead she chose to let her kids slowly strangle to death. Makes me say the F word.

I also agree with you that women perps get much more leeway, as well as the benefit of the doubt, over male perps. And I don’t believe that is right.

While I believe some people deserve to die, im not a believer in the death penalty as a government-imposed sentence. For various reasons.

But I do believe that the law should be equally applied to both sexes.

I truly believe Jodi Arias got LWOP instead of the death penalty because she’s female and played the victim of DV, rather than the perp. I was particularly offended by the “expert” who arrogantly testified that Travis was abusive, based on zero evidence. And that men could not be victims, essentially.

While I do not believe in the death penalty, it truly bothers me that Arias is free to conduct strip teases for guards and socialize with, manipulate and use other prisoners and the guards.

For people like her prison is not a truly difficult experience.

 

[kshultz06082]

Wow. That’s a powerful post.

I am always amazed by those like you who are able to overcome childhood trauma and not repeat it. What makes some able to rise above? What makes people like you survive and persevere?

It’s incredible.

And it’s research I would like to see. Research into trauma and how some overcome. I feel like we need more study into pathways to heal trauma and not continue the pattern.

Also, I’m sorry you went through that. It’s never a child’s fault. Never.

I can answer why I was able to overcome having an abusive parent from my experience only... as I stated in my original post, I was removed from my mother's care, but not by DCF. My dad and my paternal grandparents took me away from her and I will forever be grateful for that. To this day, my dad doesn't know all the things my mother did, but that is because I know he would feel guilty and neither of us needs that. My grandparents and dad are amazing people who taught me what real love looks like. They loved me with every fiber of their being, so the awful crap my mother said and did, was overrode by their love. I didn't make it out Scot-free, but having a phenomenal support system in place definitely lessened the effects. I wrote an autobiography in 8th grade (it was an assignment) and we were asked to discuss who had the largest impact on our lives. Most people probably would have chosen to write about someone who was a "good" person. Not me. I chose my mother and explained how she was the BEST example of what NOT to do or be. That's basically how I live my life. I do the opposite of what she would have done in every situation. At times, I have caught myself acting in ways she would and i end up in a crying heap on the ground repeating to myself "i am not my mother"... it's not a pretty sight, but i am grateful that i can recognize on my own when her demons come out in me and with the support of my family, i get thru it. I wish all children could have people in their lives that could support them the way i was and still am. Without that support, i could easily be my mother 2.0. And it sucks cuz as i get older (41 now), i look more and more like her and that can be scary.

Sorry, i didn't mean to write a novel.

 

[MsMarple]

I can answer why I was able to overcome having an abusive parent from my experience only... as I stated in my original post, I was removed from my mother's care, but not by DCF. My dad and my paternal grandparents took me away from her and I will forever be grateful for that. To this day, my dad doesn't know all the things my mother did, but that is because I know he would feel guilty and neither of us needs that. My grandparents and dad are amazing people who taught me what real love looks like. They loved me with every fiber of their being, so the awful crap my mother said and did, was overrode by their love. I didn't make it out Scot-free, but having a phenomenal support system in place definitely lessened the effects. I wrote an autobiography in 8th grade (it was an assignment) and we were asked to discuss who had the largest impact on our lives. Most people probably would have chosen to write about someone who was a "good" person. Not me. I chose my mother and explained how she was the BEST example of what NOT to do or be. That's basically how I live my life. I do the opposite of what she would have done in every situation. At times, I have caught myself acting in ways she would and i end up in a crying heap on the ground repeating to myself "i am not my mother"... it's not a pretty sight, but i am grateful that i can recognize on my own when her demons come out in me and with the support of my family, i get thru it. I wish all children could have people in their lives that could support them the way i was and still am. Without that support, i could easily be my mother 2.0. And it sucks cuz as i get older (41 now), i look more and more like her and that can be scary.

Sorry, i didn't mean to write a novel.

Beautifully written! I think you hit on two critical points; first, the importance of having *someone* who can provide support and guidance and second, the power of having the insight to know how to break that damn generational cycle of abuse. You've encompassed both - not easy but you did it.

So many cases we see here end badly because IMO the perpetrator lacks those skills. One reason I dislike the terms "baby daddy" and "baby mama" is that the child often has no stability or feeling of safety and security in the home. I could care less if people have kids without being married but I hate when people pop out babies with no desire to take on the responsibilities. Children aren't toys to be discarded when they get too "needy."

Connor's and Brinley's murders IMO are in the top ten of disgusting cases and I hope their so-called mother pays the maximum for her horrific act.

It's heartening to see a success story such as yours in the midst of these awful threads. Kudos to you and hugs!

 

[gitana1]

I can answer why I was able to overcome having an abusive parent from my experience only... as I stated in my original post, I was removed from my mother's care, but not by DCF. My dad and my paternal grandparents took me away from her and I will forever be grateful for that. To this day, my dad doesn't know all the things my mother did, but that is because I know he would feel guilty and neither of us needs that. My grandparents and dad are amazing people who taught me what real love looks like. They loved me with every fiber of their being, so the awful crap my mother said and did, was overrode by their love. I didn't make it out Scot-free, but having a phenomenal support system in place definitely lessened the effects. I wrote an autobiography in 8th grade (it was an assignment) and we were asked to discuss who had the largest impact on our lives. Most people probably would have chosen to write about someone who was a "good" person. Not me. I chose my mother and explained how she was the BEST example of what NOT to do or be. That's basically how I live my life. I do the opposite of what she would have done in every situation. At times, I have caught myself acting in ways she would and i end up in a crying heap on the ground repeating to myself "i am not my mother"... it's not a pretty sight, but i am grateful that i can recognize on my own when her demons come out in me and with the support of my family, i get thru it. I wish all children could have people in their lives that could support them the way i was and still am. Without that support, i could easily be my mother 2.0. And it sucks cuz as i get older (41 now), i look more and more like her and that can be scary.

Sorry, i didn't mean to write a novel.

Don’t apologize. I think this is important stuff. Thank you.

 

[kshultz06082]

Don’t apologize. I think this is important stuff. Thank you.

Beautifully written! I think you hit on two critical points; first, the importance of having *someone* who can provide support and guidance and second, the power of having the insight to know how to break that damn generational cycle of abuse. You've encompassed both - not easy but you did it.

So many cases we see here end badly because IMO the perpetrator lacks those skills. One reason I dislike the terms "baby daddy" and "baby mama" is that the child often has no stability or feeling of safety and security in the home. I could care less if people have kids without being married but I hate when people pop out babies with no desire to take on the responsibilities. Children aren't toys to be discarded when they get too "needy."

Connor's and Brinley's murders IMO are in the top ten of disgusting cases and I hope their so-called mother pays the maximum for her horrific act.

It's heartening to see a success story such as yours in the midst of these awful threads. Kudos to you and hugs!

Thank you both. It means alot to me to have my story told. I truly hope by sharing openly that it can save another child in a similar situation. Thank you all for letting me get that off my chest even if it is somewhat off topic to Conner and Brinley's case. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming

 

[abbyrdpsu]

New search warrant issued last week...
Criminal Docket

 

[Lusitana]

New search warrant issued last week...
Criminal Docket

Interesting. What could it be?

 

[Kitkat28]

I can’t view it, but could it be another phone?

 

[Niner]

New search warrant issued last week...
Criminal Docket

Coming up with a blank page....

 

[realanastasia]

Coming up with a blank page....

I can view it--maybe if you're outside of PA it's not visible? I am attaching a screenshot of the relevant part of the document that shows a pretty recent application for a search warrant, which is what I believe abbyrdpsu is referring to. 10/21 is the date the Commonwealth of PA filed it, but the "document date" is listed as 9/01--not quite sure what that means.

 

[Lusitana]

Yeah, that's odd. I'm assuming nobody is at the home. Her oldest son left very early on the case, she wasn't even a suspect and the poor boy was already out of the house. So yeah, I'm curious about that new search warrant.

 

[fred&edna]

I can view it--maybe if you're outside of PA it's not visible? I am attaching a screenshot of the relevant part of the document that shows a pretty recent application for a search warrant, which is what I believe abbyrdpsu is referring to. 10/21 is the date the Commonwealth of PA filed it, but the "document date" is listed as 9/01--not quite sure what that means.

'Could it be an additional computer/phone/tech search?

I'm sickened every time I read through the evil charges.

 

[oviedo]

Maybe videos ? ugh

 

[Deleted member 278]

This case hurts my heart.

 

[Lusitana]

Maybe videos ? ugh

Oh man. Even more videos would be awful. I mean, anything would be awful, this case is awful. Poor kids.

 

[abbyrdpsu]

I can view it--maybe if you're outside of PA it's not visible? I am attaching a screenshot of the relevant part of the document that shows a pretty recent application for a search warrant, which is what I believe abbyrdpsu is referring to. 10/21 is the date the Commonwealth of PA filed it, but the "document date" is listed as 9/01--not quite sure what that means.

Thanks for posting the screenshot! Yes, you're right, it looks like it was actually applied for and granted in September and filed once it was returned. Even a search warrant in September is surprising though after all this time. I was wondering if it was the "missing" phone too?

 

[Subiechik21]

Thanks for posting the screenshot! Yes, you're right, it looks like it was actually applied for and granted in September and filed once it was returned. Even a search warrant in September is surprising though after all this time. I was wondering if it was the "missing" phone too?

Could they have finally gotten a search warrant for the Ford Fusion's communication/"infotainment" system that they were interested in? Perhaps they already got that search warrant & it lead to the location of the missing phone, idk JMO.

ETA: Clarification

 

[Seattle1]

Police get new warrants in hanging deaths of Berks kids

May 8, 2020 Updated Aug 12, 2020

READING, Pa. - Pennsylvania State Police have obtained a pair of new warrants for their ongoing investigation of the hanging deaths of two children in Berks County.

Homicide investigators said they are still trying to locate a cellphone that belonged to the children's mother, Lisa Snyder, who stands accused of killing her 8-year-old son, Conner, and 4-year-old daughter, Brinley, by hanging them with a dog lead in the basement of the family's home in Albany Township on Sept. 23.

Detectives obtained a warrant to search the infotainment system in Snyder's car for data linked to the missing phone. They obtained a second warrant to check purchase records at the Walmart where Snyder allegedly bought the dog lead.
____________________

This report updated Aug 12 is the last I could locate citing a pair of search warrants obtained. The posted screenshot from the ROA indicates something was collected/seized and I'd have to say it was most likely the Walmart receipt that was entered into evidence.

We also know that in Oct 2019, there were 5 search warrants issued including one for a second phone LS used to call 911 on Sept 23, 2019, to report her children hanging. To my knowledge, this phone is still missing and why they issued the SW for the infotainment system in LS car noted above.

MOO