PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[Charlot123]

Yes. Roy Gricar suffered from depression (possibly manic depression) to the point that he had retired on a disability pension. He had worked in maintenance at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. He killed himself by drowning in a river.

Depression was known in 2005 to have a genetic element. Later it was discovered that suicidal tendencies could be genetic as well. It had long been suspected, e.g. the suicidal tendencies in the Hemingway family.

There is a psychological effect called pareidolia. It is seeing patterns that are not there, like the man in the moon. To an extent we have this in the RFG case.

In particular, TG has noted how "eerily" similar the Lewisburg site was to the the site of Roy's, his father's, suicide. Well, you get the same similaries in Lock Haven, to the north, to Milton, to the north, to Northumberland, to the south. TG has stated that they heard that the Mini was by "Water Street," he and his brother turned to each other and said, "Suicide." They were on their way to Lewisburg and did not know what it looked like.

Suicide in the family, indeed, increases the risk of suicide for biological members, but it is not that simple. Did Ray Gricar suffer from prior depression/bipolar disorder, did he ever seek help?

 

[Betty P]

Suicide in the family, indeed, increases the risk of suicide for biological members, but it is not that simple. Did Ray Gricar suffer from prior depression/bipolar disorder, did he ever seek help?

I've never seen any report of that. No mention of it in the LE investigation articles.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ray and Roy… were they twins, by any chance?

No, and I believe there was an age difference.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think I'm stuck on the destroying of the laptop. There must have been some information or disparaging details he didn't want people to know if he disappeared on purpose or if he committed suicide. Why? To not blemish his memory or implicate people, or to hide his tracks of moving funds, making travel plans? Lawyers can be sucked into the criminal side, they have access and knowledge of how to manipulate the system etc. so it does lead to some suspicion. No suicide note? Impulsive decision? I dont think impulsive, seems the trip was pretty planned. It also seems he was with another person, smell of smoke, ashes in the car. I just don't know, so puzzling.

Or. he had confidential employee data on the laptop that he didn't want to go to his successor. There are probably afew other reasons.

 

[Skyblueday32]

Again, I am stuck on this trip, the computer searches on how to wipe a laptop top, mapping a trip he's taken prior, being seen with another person that day that is not identified. I'm just not feeling suicide, although possible.
Here's a stretch...government relocation program? Where they change your ID and you cannot contact loved ones and you leave your life behind? Could he have provided information to the federal govt and needed protection? Not necessarily a case the public may know about, but something sinister where his life could have been in danger?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Zero percent chance of the Witness Security Program, in part, because he didn't witness anything, in part, because the government permits one family member to know, and, in part, because you can take assets with you. After almost 20 years, whatever he had witnessed should be known.

Further, there is a logic problem. If RFG were part of a program, do they really want people, almost 20 years later, talking about him and putting his photo on the Internet? They could possibly fake his death, fake his retirement to a distant location, or just announce that he was in a program; nobody would be looking for him.

 

[Kittybunny]

I saw this thread pop up again and was thinking about Ray in light of the recent faked disappearance of Ryan Borgwardt, who attempted to fake his own death by drowning in a kayak, in order to run off to Eastern Europe or Uzbekistan to be with a woman he met online. He might have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for the persistence of the local sheriff and the laptop he left behind, where they found evidence of the relationship. The journey he took to get out of the country was eye-opening. Here is a link to this thread here for anyone who is interested: Found Alive - WI - Ryan Borgwardt, 45, Green Lake, 11 Aug 2024 *evidence that he faked his death and is alive in Eastern Europe*

It makes me think of the potential lengths that Ray seemingly went to to wipe his laptop and non-obvious options for transportation. IF Ray had a Slovenian passport, it could have been done. I presume LE checked with Slovenian authorities if Ray had an active passport? And whether it had been used or not?!?

I remain on this uncomfortable 3-way fence among all possibilities, but reading about the case above does slightly strengthen the walk away probability, since Ray is hopefully way smarter than Ryan.

I do hope wherever Ray is, he’s at peace.

 

[Skyblueday32]

Or. he had confidential employee data on the laptop that he didn't want to go to his successor. There are probably afew other reasons.

Why not wipe the laptop vs throwing it in a river? The company i work for owns the laptop and when you're leaving or receiving an upgrade you turn it in and they wipe it. Why be so dramatic and throw it in a river? Seems overkill for employee data.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It makes me think of the potential lengths that Ray seemingly went to to wipe his laptop and non-obvious options for transportation. IF Ray had a Slovenian passport, it could have been done. I presume LE checked with Slovenian authorities if Ray had an active passport? And whether it had been used or not?!?

Why not wipe the laptop vs throwing it in a river? The company i work for owns the laptop and when you're leaving or receiving an upgrade you turn it in and they wipe it. Why be so dramatic and throw it in a river? Seems overkill for employee data.

He was aware of LE could do to recover the data.

For the record, I destroy all my hard drives.

 

[Black Diamond]

If there was something on a hard drive that I didn’t want to see the light of day, I sure wouldn’t trust a wipe program to unquestionably take care of it.

Plus back in 2005, computer and internet technology was so much less developed than now.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Suicide in the family, indeed, increases the risk of suicide for biological members, but it is not that simple. Did Ray Gricar suffer from prior depression/bipolar disorder, did he ever seek help?

Nothing that was diagnosed.

That said, RFG was acting uncharacteristically since at least early March. He seemed unfocused at times, and was described as "distraught" by JKA in the week 4/10/05. PEF noted that, during the month prior RFG was napping more; she suggested seeing a doctor.

All of those things could be symptoms of depression. They could also be symptoms of slowing down at age 59. They could totally unrelated to health as well.

 

[Sweetluv]

If someone killed Ray, this was well planned..and he trusted this person or person (s) enough to take off work and drive some distance to meet them. If someone wanted Ray gone, why would they meet him in broad day light out and about in public? If Ray vanished on his own, maybe he wanted to be seen, to have an alibi of sorts..out driving and shopping..seemingly normal. It's like he left behind his life and identity there..his car, computer, phone.....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If someone killed Ray, this was well planned..and he trusted this person or person (s) enough to take off work and drive some distance to meet them. If someone wanted Ray gone, why would they meet him in broad day light out and about in public? If Ray vanished on his own, maybe he wanted to be seen, to have an alibi of sorts..out driving and shopping..seemingly normal. It's like he left behind his life and identity there..his car, computer, phone.....

There is another, IMO much more likely foul play scenario. He was meeting someone for a tryst. He was at this tryst and something happened. He had a fatal health problem, he had an accident, there was lover's quarrel and his lover got violent.

 

[Sweetluv]

There is another, IMO much more likely foul play scenario. He was meeting someone for a tryst. He was at this tryst and something happened. He had a fatal health problem, he had an accident, there was lover's quarrel and his lover got violent.

I can see a tryst scenario...but why destroy the computer (search was done prior on how to destroy a hard drive) and leave your phone behind in the car? Would a public place be the best meeting spot?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I can see a tryst scenario...but why destroy the computer (search was done prior on how to destroy a hard drive) and leave your phone behind in the car? Would a public place be the best meeting spot?

The phone may be because RFG:

1. Did not want to disturbed during the encounter.

2. Did not want to be traced. Suppose that the tryst was with someone connected to a case, a witness, a defendant or a relative of either. He knew that the location of the phone would be recorded and that the information could be gotten by a subpoena.

If this was foul play, I suspect that the destruction of the laptop was unrelated. We know that RFG wanted to destroy the data of the laptop from sometime in 2004. He had ask Lux, possibly among others, how to do it. He bought software to do it. He did the searches in 2005.

RFG could have thought, **Well, I'm going to be Lewisburg anyhow, so I'll remove the drive and toss it in the river. On Monday, I'll go into the Courthouse and report that I had the laptop with me in Lewisburg and that I tripped and it went flying into the river. I'll offer to reimburse the county for it.**

The laptop was several years old, was made by a company that went out of business prior to 2005, IIRC. The reimbursement cost would be less than $200, if anything. My understanding was that he had spoken about buying it from the county at some point.

The only way that I could see the laptop being related to foul play is if RFG was using it engage in criminal activity, e.g. tracking bribe money. That would be difficult, since it did not have a line connecting it to the Internet.

 

[fridaybaker]

There is another, IMO much more likely foul play scenario. He was meeting someone for a tryst. He was at this tryst and something happened. He had a fatal health problem, he had an accident, there was lover's quarrel and his lover got violent.

Any evidence, whisper, intimation or anything that could point to this?

It's an interesting and plausible possibility, but dead end if we can't find anything, anywhere, that points to it. If only instead of cigarette ash there'd been the lingering scent of perfume...

 

[fridaybaker]

So, RG and woman arrange to meet in parking lot of his favorite antiques mall. She gets into his car and lights up as they talk. They decide to take her vehicle, as his is quite noticeable, and he'd be recognized immediately by anyone who knew him. As a passenger in her vehicle, very unlikely anyone would recognize him.

Then what? They go to a hotel, but I'm sure LE canvassed local hotels. So, her house. Things go south, and she kills him and disposes of his body. Possible for a woman alone, but perhaps she had help with that task. Perhaps, he was even set up? Maybe she knew he'd have cash on him and she and a friend rolled him?

The problem with this is: Wouldn't they have searched his phone for numbers? Burner phone? Were they common then? How'd they arrange to meet?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Any evidence, whisper, intimation or anything that could point to this?

It's an interesting and plausible possibility, but dead end if we can't find anything, anywhere, that points to it. If only instead of cigarette ash there'd been the lingering scent of perfume...

He was see with an unknown woman at the SoS. That is the so called "Mystery Woman."

DZ initially thought RFG was out for a "wild weekend." Buehner suggested checking motels in the area for female registrants, and comparing their license photos with the description of the Mystery Woman.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So, RG and woman arrange to meet in parking lot of his favorite antiques mall. She gets into his car and lights up as they talk. They decide to take her vehicle, as his is quite noticeable, and he'd be recognized immediately by anyone who knew him. As a passenger in her vehicle, very unlikely anyone would recognize him.

Then what? They go to a hotel, but I'm sure LE canvassed local hotels. So, her house. Things go south, and she kills him and disposes of his body. Possible for a woman alone, but perhaps she had help with that task. Perhaps, he was even set up? Maybe she knew he'd have cash on him and she and a friend rolled him?

The problem with this is: Wouldn't they have searched his phone for numbers? Burner phone? Were they common then? How'd they arrange to meet?

LE (and the family) checked local motels.

I would suspect something like a vacation cottage.

I would doubt that this is a set up. I expect, if this happened, she would be in Centre County or west of it.

 

[acutename]

So, RG and woman arrange to meet in parking lot of his favorite antiques mall. She gets into his car and lights up as they talk. They decide to take her vehicle, as his is quite noticeable, and he'd be recognized immediately by anyone who knew him. As a passenger in her vehicle, very unlikely anyone would recognize him.

Then what? They go to a hotel, but I'm sure LE canvassed local hotels. So, her house. Things go south, and she kills him and disposes of his body. Possible for a woman alone, but perhaps she had help with that task. Perhaps, he was even set up? Maybe she knew he'd have cash on him and she and a friend rolled him?

The problem with this is: Wouldn't they have searched his phone for numbers? Burner phone? Were they common then? How'd they arrange to meet?

Why does she kill him? (messy, time consuming, etc.) And why does the hard drive wind up in the river? He takes it with him on his "date?" Was he known to step out with mystery women?