PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte 15 April 2005 #18

[J. J. in Phila]

There is a very good chance Ray was dead on 4/16/05. There’s a much greater chance he’s dead today. Highly unlikely he’s alive today in my opinion.

I think if he did walk away and is still alive there is almost 100% certainty that he has contacted his daughter by now. Very likely within the first year of walking. Someone who loves their child, who trusts their child, would have to make that contact. It just makes 0 sense that he would not contact her.

If you think about it the right way, his daughter is by far the best chance we have at ever knowing what happened to Ray. If he walked away, she knows the story. If he committed suicide and his body disappeared, it’s not going to be found at this point and will be forever a mystery. If he was killed, the killer(s) covered their tracks well and time only makes it less likely that evidence comes out.

I do not agree with any of this, except that it is more unlikely for RFG to be alive than dead at this point.

 

[Black Diamond]

I do not agree with any of this, except that it is more unlikely for RFG to be alive than dead at this point.

Likewise I do not agree with your theory that Ray loved his daughter so much that he walked away and hid from her forever, so that she could wait 6 years to declare him dead to then hopefully collect his pension so she doesn’t have to go to work so much anymore.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Likewise I do not agree with your theory that Ray loved his daughter so much that he walked away and hid from her forever, so that she could wait 6 years to declare him dead to then hopefully collect his pension so she doesn’t have to go to work so much anymore.

Don't create a strawman.

One reason why RFG, if alive, may not tell LAG, is that it would expose her to legal liability.

Further, there was no "hopefully" about it. His heirs get the pension once RFG was declared dead. She would not get as much if he retired and died, even if he died soon afterward.

 

[Black Diamond]

Don't create a strawman.

One reason why RFG, if alive, may not tell LAG, is that it would expose her to legal liability.

Further, there was no "hopefully" about it. His heirs get the pension once RFG was declared dead. She would not get as much if he retired and died, even if he died soon afterward.

No strawman created. I think I succinctly represented your theory that you have posted scores of times over the last few years.

Do you have a copy of his will to post to know who his estate was left to? If he disappeared for the sole reason of financial gain for his daughter, why didn’t he also have a life insurance policy listing his daughter as beneficiary? Do you know for fact that his daughter is actually collecting his pension? If he had enough money to disappear and retire without his pension why did he have to go hide forever instead of just giving her money and collecting his pension ?

Your theory works fine as a secondary or tertiary benefit to disappearing, but doesn’t pass a basic sniff test as a primary reason.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No strawman created. I think I succinctly represented your theory that you have posted scores of times over the last few years.

Do you have a copy of his will to post to know who his estate was left to? If he disappeared for the sole reason of financial gain for his daughter, why didn’t he also have a life insurance policy listing his daughter as beneficiary? Do you know for fact that his daughter is actually collecting his pension? If he had enough money to disappear and retire without his pension why did he have to go hide forever instead of just giving her money and collecting his pension ?

Your theory works fine as a secondary or tertiary benefit to disappearing, but doesn’t pass a basic sniff test as a primary reason.

He did have life insurance. The will is not published.

There may also be another factor, the bank account that LE can't find. There could be money he could not get back into the country.

The strawman, that it was just his daughter.

 

[Black Diamond]

Maybe Ray's body finally floated to the surface of the Susquehanna.

Body identified from Susquehanna River in Pa.

Crews in Dauphin County helped State Police recover a body from the Susquehanna River after being spotted by a helicopter on Friday morning.

www.fox43.com

 

[minazoe]

Maybe Ray's body finally floated to the surface of the Susquehanna.

Body identified from Susquehanna River in Pa.

Crews in Dauphin County helped State Police recover a body from the Susquehanna River after being spotted by a helicopter on Friday morning.

www.fox43.com

but could his "body" still even be a "body" ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

but could his "body" still even be a "body" ?

No, unless he was frozen for 20 years, or if were alive and went in recently.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Last week, the 1988 murder conviction of "Subu" Vadam was overturned; there many be a new trial or the case may be dropped: overturned . The reason that this is being posted is that RFG argued the case and that the convicting was overturned because RFG withheld evidence that was exculpatory, i.e. that bullet hole was too small to have been made by the alleged murder weapon.

This was covered by The Penn Stater: Justice in the Balance

This is the second case where there was a known ethical lapse by RFG. The first, as previously noted, was in a April 2003 rape case where he persuaded a defense expert not to testify. In that case, he was sanctioned by the judge.

 

[Betty P]

Last week, the 1988 murder conviction of "Subu" Vadam was overturned; there many be a new trial or the case may be dropped: overturned . The reason that this is being posted is that RFG argued the case and that the convicting was overturned because RFG withheld evidence that was exculpatory, i.e. that bullet hole was too small to have been made by the alleged murder weapon.

This was covered by The Penn Stater: Justice in the Balance

This is the second case where there was a known ethical lapse by RFG. The first, as previously noted, was in an April 2003 rape case where he persuaded a defense expert not to testify. In that case, he was sanctioned by the judge.

After reading the article, I have mixed feelings. The difference between the average hole size for the two types of bullets was small. The evidence from the expert testimony shouldn’t have been withheld, though.

There isn’t much information about the circumstances leading up to the murder, but it was established that Vadam was the last person to see the victim.

Interesting. The guy has been in prison for more than 40 years. They may just let him free.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

After reading the article, I have mixed feelings. The difference between the average hole size for the two types of bullets was small. The evidence from the expert testimony shouldn’t have been withheld, though.

There isn’t much information about the circumstances leading up to the murder, but it was established that Vadam was the last person to see the victim.

Interesting. The guy has been in prison for more than 40 years. They may just let him free.

It is a question of due process.

In fairness, if the hole was less .25 inches in diameter, it was not made by a pistol firing .25 inch bullet.

 

[Betty P]

It is a question of due process.

In fairness, if the hole was less .25 inches in diameter, it was not made by a pistol firing .25 inch bullet.

Right. There's no getting around the fact they hid exculpatory evidence. The same thing happened in Alec Baldwin's trial for accidentally shooting the cinematographer on his movie. The prosecution hid ballistic evidence that showed the armorer was at fault, passing around live rounds mixed with dummies.

Fortunately, it's something you don't see as much anymore. Perhaps its because its more difficult to do.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A few years ago, I wrote: "Mr. Gricar might not have wanted to 'the ex-DA,' having to field questions about what he did in prior cases, or even what he would do differently from the current DA. Unlike the previous District Attorneys resident in Centre County, Mr. Gricar’s tenure was long, and he would be the person the media would go to."

I have talked about motives for RFG to have walked away, but I will be the first to say that there would be multiple motives. Something like this is one of those cases.