PA PA - District Attorney Ray Gricar Mysteriously Disappeared - Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 *NamUs #MP1982* #18

[J. J. in Phila]

She is raising the "Ray is gay" possibilities:

She thinks it is walkaway. This is bad.

 

[minazoe]

Pat Brown is very good.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Pat Brown is very good.

This one was not.

RFG, in the course of 2 years (2001-3):

1. Divorced his second wife.

2. Ask another woman to marry him.

3. Moved in with a third woman.

4. And at some point during all of this was flirting with a waitress.

This does not give off a RuPaul vibe.

State College, even 40 years ago, was socially liberal and a safe place for someone LGBTQIA. Other counties would be different, but not Centre County, even in 2005.

Further, RFG is not planning to run for anything, so he does have to worry about losing votes. He is going to practice, so he is not worried about losing clients. He is not religious, so that is not it. From what I know of his family, they do not appear to be particularly hostile to gay people.

Brown might be good elsewhere, but not here.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The part of the Susquehanna River System that runs through Lewisburg is the West Branch of the Susquehanna. It meets the main Susquehanna River downstream (south) at Northumberland. After they merge the Susquehanna, now with a lot more water, continues past Harrisburg and finally emptying into Chesapeake Bay at Harve De Grace, MD. I will refer to the part after they merge as the Lower Susquehanna, though that is not its official name.

It should be clear that something that went into the water in Lewisburg could float into the Lower Susquehanna and even into Chesapeake Bay

A few weeks ago, a linked video noted that a woman, Elizabeth Dorsaneo, drowned in the Lower Susquehanna in 2014. Her body has still not been discovered, though the body of her boyfriend, and the boat they were in, were found.

I have taken a look at drowning in the West Branch. I can find about 10 drownings, but none where the body was lost. There were not a lot of bodies. I would suspect that if RFG's body was in the West Branch, there is greater than a 90% chance that it would be found. There would still be a chance that it would still be missing.

In addition, a small child drowned after going into West Branch in 2018. She went in in Williamsport, which is north, upstream, from Lewisburg. Her body was found near Northumberland, which is south, downstream, from Lewisburg. Williamsport Dam - Wikipedia

I will be posting updated odds, where suicide will go up slightly, but that is completely based on river dynamics.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I gave the odds in 2025 as follows:

Walkaway: 73%

Foul Play: 26%

Something Else (including Suicide): 1%

Today, I will give the odds as:

Walkaway 71.5%

Foul Play 25.5%

Suicide 2.8%

Something Else 0.2%

 

[minazoe]

the only thing I can say about Pat Brown's podcast is that the GAY aspect has actually always been out there...even the red Mini Cooper was a part of the whole GAY theory...The short haircuts of his wives, etc. were all thought of as indicators as weird as it sounds ( it is weird) but not beyond the fray..

true there is not the stigma there once was...there is still a huge stigma and considering Patty was Italian and no doubt very Catholic, this would be hugely upsetting for her and her family...sure he could just break up with her and go on to live a private life, but if he was in a same sex relationship and wanted to be out of the closet , it would be discovered and talked about by many people and might color his reputation in terms of the falseness of who he presented himself as.

Also as a man of a certain generation he might feel incredibly shameful in some ways and might want to get far away from those
guilty awful feelings.

this said I do not think she was going far off the mark about Ray. there are many closeted and bisexual men who have married women and had multiple heterosexual marriages or relationships.

so in my view it is possible...not first on my list, but possible. that said , I think there would be rumors and talk and people possibly coming out and saying they had relations of some kind with him.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

the only thing I can say about Pat Brown's podcast is that the GAY aspect has actually always been out there...even the red Mini Cooper was a part of the whole GAY theory...The short haircuts of his wives, etc. were all thought of as indicators as weird as it sounds ( it is weird) but not beyond the fray..

true there is not the stigma there once was...there is still a huge stigma and considering Patty was Italian and no doubt very Catholic, this would be hugely upsetting for her and her family...sure he could just break up with her and go on to live a private life, but if he was in a same sex relationship and wanted to be out of the closet , it would be discovered and talked about by many people and might color his reputation in terms of the falseness of who he presented himself as.

Also as a man of a certain generation he might feel incredibly shameful in some ways and might want to get far away from those
guilty awful feelings.

this said I do not think she was going far off the mark about Ray. there are many closeted and bisexual men who have married women and had multiple heterosexual marriages or relationships.

so in my view it is possible...not first on my list, but possible. that said , I think there would be rumors and talk and people possibly coming out and saying they had relations of some kind with him.

mOO

Wife #2 had long blond hair.

The entire theory is "Ray-is-gay-cause-he-drove-a-Mini." While he presented a professional appearance, his close were not particularly stylish.

 

[minazoe]

well I'm just saying that Pat isn't the first to theorize about this and she was speaking about all the ongoing theories over the years...so while it is a sensitive issue and could be totally wrong, I don't feel like she was pushing it . mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I want to reiterate what "something else" is. It is something along the lines of an accident not involving someone else or a medical crisis.

Examples are:

1. RFG was walking along the Susquehanna. He stumbled and fell in, hitting his head in the process, and drowned while unconscious.

2. RFG was walking along the Susquehanna and had a massive heart attack. He dropped into the river.


What are the chances that something like this happened? Very unlikely, but not impossible.

 

[Betty P]

I’m not seeing much in common between these two cases. No offense, but it makes this episode rather confusing.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I’m not seeing much in common between these two cases. No offense, but it makes this episode rather confusing.

They are both prosecutors and something happened to them in PA. I'll see if I can dig up an old blog entry.

 

[minazoe]

Luna's case is honestly beyond explanation..just the weirdest set of events and unexplained cruelty that makes no sense what so ever..mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I’m not seeing much in common between these two cases. No offense, but it makes this episode rather confusing.

Here is the text of a blog I wrote:

In this blog, I want to look at similarities between disappearance of former Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar and the death of Assistant United States Attorney Jonathan P. Luna. For this entry, I’m going to assume both men were murdered, though that is not a fact in evidence. I want to look at the possibility that both were murdered by the same person. I’ll do that by asking questions

1. Was their any connection in their professional careers between the two?

So far as can be determined, no. Mr. Gricar was a local District Attorney in Centre County. He would prosecute criminal cases in Centre County that were generally violations of state law or local ordinances. Mr. Luna prosecuted violations of Federal law in the Baltimore area. It would be very unlikely that they would cross professional paths.

2. Did they have similar backgrounds or interests that might have pointed to them crossing paths?

Both were male prosecutors, but that is where the similarities ended. Mr. Gricar grew up in the Cleveland, went to college at Case-Western Reserve, the University of Cincinnati Law School; he was a public prosecutor for all of his professional carrier. He was Indians fan. Mr. Luna grew up in New York City, went to Fordham, and attended University of North Carolina Law School. He was an assistant prosecutor in New York City for about two years, then he was with the Federal Trade Commission and a private firm for a while. Mr. Luna was 19 years younger than Mr. Gricar, and he rooted for the Yankees.1

Mr. Gricar was twice divorced, with an adult daughter. He was a Caucasian of Slovenian ancestry. Mr. Luna was married and had two young children; he was biracial, of Filipino and African American ancestry.

3. Did they ever interact?

Looking at where they lived, and their career and education paths, it was unlikely that the ever met. Mr. Luna died in December of 2003, at was in the news for a few weeks after that. Mr. Gricar was, of course, the District Attorney at the time; Ms. Arnold was an assistant DA. She said, “Before Ray's disappearance I had never heard of Luna.”

Considering the prominence the Chief Mel Wiley case has had in the Gricar disappearance, it seems to be very unlikely that Mr. Luna’s death would not have been mentioned by Mr. Gricar, if he knew Mr. Luna. Further, unlike Chief Wiley, if Mr. Luna was murdered, it occurred much close to Centre County than the Wiley case, and in the same state.

I could have understood Mr. Gricar, or the staff of the District Attorney’s Office, talking about the possible murder of Mr. Luna when it happened, December 2003, or even a few months after. It was in the news, it happened Pennsylvania, it involved a prosecutor, and it had just happened. Yet, according to Ms. Arnold, she never heard of it.

4. Was their a similar modus operandi (Latin for “method of operation”) between the two cases?

It is possible that both men were lured to their deaths, but the circumstances were very different.

A. Mr. Gricar left from home; Mr. Luna left from the office.

B. Mr. Gricar left early to mid morning; Mr. Luna left after 11:30 PM.

C. Mr. Gricar drove about 56 miles, on a relatively direct path; Mr. Luna drove a minimum of 190 miles on a very indirect path.

D. Mr. Gricar took his cell phone; Mr. Luna left his behind in the office.

E. Mr. Gricar took the day off; Mr. Luna was suppose to fax a plea agreement that night, and was expected in court the next day.

F. Mr. Gricar phoned his girlfriend from the road; Mr. Luna had no contact with his wife or family members after he left.

G. The Mini Cooper, the car Mr. Gricar was driving, was found in a fairly densely populated area; Mr. Luna’s car was found in a rural area.

H. The Mini showed no evidence of a crime; Mr. Luna’s car had a large amount of blood.

I. The Mini was parked, engine off; Mr. Luna’s care was in a ditch, with the engine running.

J. Mr. Luna’s body was found; there was no effort to hide it. Mr. Gricar’s body was never found.

It should be obvious that the modus operandi (I do like Latin) of both deaths was quite different.

One author (please don’t link to him) referred to drug cases and tried to connect the two together.4 At the time Mr. Luna disappeared, he was prosecuting one. However, Mr. Gricar was not prosecuting one; the major case, of Taj “Verbal” Lee, was being handled by the State Attorney General’s Office. Mr. Madeira, the outgoing District Attorney, was the Deputy State Attorney General that was prosecuting the case; while his political career might have vanished (but not inexplicably), he has not.

So what similarities are there between Mr. Luna and Mr. Gricar? They were both male, they both could drive, they were both prosecutors, and they were both baseball fans (of different teams). Other than that, they had nothing in common.

In terms of their practice of law, they prosecuted different crimes in different, non overlapping, geographical areas. In terms of how they were doing within their practice was different. Mr. Gricar was looking at retirement, on his own terms, as the elected head of his office; Mr. Luna was in danger of losing his staff position, and facing a polygraph regarding missing money. In short, Mr. Luna was under a professional cloud in his career; Mr. Gricar was not, though the 2001 Republican Primary showed that he had some weakness.

If both were murdered, Modus Operandi of the murderer was much different. There were some stunning differences and far more tangents than parallels.

In reality, it is very unlikely that if Mr. Luna was murdered, it was because he prosecuted the bad guys. As one investigator said, "A professional rubout, they'd put one in the back of your head and dump you in the harbor. There's something else going on here we don't see." I’ve never heard of a professional hit where the killer used a pen knife. If it was Mr. Luna’s penknife that inflicted that damage, I’ve never heard of a hit man who’d have to use the victim’s weapon. I’ve never heard of a hit man driving the bleeding, but still alive, victim around in the victim’s own vehicle, for more than four and a half hours.

In looking at both cases, it becomes clear that they were not related. That does not, however, does not help us much in the disappearance of Mr. Gricar. It merely eliminates one very unlikely possibility.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Luna's case is honestly beyond explanation..just the weirdest set of events and unexplained cruelty that makes no sense what so ever..mOO

It does make sense if it was self inflicted, but not with an intent of suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If you are in Philadelphia next month: https://libwww.freelibrary.org/calendar/event/164624

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have made some slight changes to the 4/15/05 timeline, based on listening to the Snyder interview. RFG was seen across from the Packwood House a bit later.

Friday, 4/15/05

6:00-8:15 AM: RFG gets up, but tells PEF he is going to "play hooky." PEF gets ready for work, leaves RFG a note stating to call her if he cannot let the dog, Honey, out. RFG asleep when she goes to work.

10:31 PM: Contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs to the house.

11:00-11:30: Lawyer sees RFG driving on Route 144 driving toward Centre Hall.

11:12 AM: RFG calls Courthouse (through the switchboard) and is connected to his office. PEF, covering the phone for another clerical worker, answers. RFG sounds a bit startled, according to PEF. RFG says he is one Route 192, heading toward Lewisburg, and cannot let Honey out.


11:30-11:35 AM: County worker sees RFG turning from Route 144 on to Route 192. He was driving very fast.



2:50 PM, Grant Fisher, while driving along Water Street, sees the Mini in the Street of Shops parking lot, one car width from the bushes.

No later than 3:15 PM, Employees at the Packwood House Museum (Ms. Kelley, Ms. Snyder), and at least one other people saw RFG park the Mini across the street (Water Street). He got out and sat on a park bench. He appeared to carrying something. The Mini had been there, moved, and returned, was there for at least 45 minute. Mini not there as of 4:00 PM


[c. 3:00 PM Carolyn Fenton (then clerking for Judge David Grine) reported seeing RFG in a "metallic colored car" behind the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte. Judge Grine also remembers seeing RFG there, but cannot remember if it was on 4/14 or 4/15.

As previously noted, the area is covered by security cameras. Gricar did not show up on the tape (though Fenton did). It is possible that RFG was not at the spot where Fenton remembers him, but was along the street, out of camera range.]

3:45-4:00 PM Carry Walker, while walking her dog along Water Street, may hay seen RFG drive past.

4:00-5:00 PM Donald Houser heading south on Route 15 sees RFG pull in beside him at a traffic light near the Country Cupboard. (This is "McKnight's Witness.") Houser, who was active in Republican politics in the area, recognized RFG at the time.

4:10 PM Christina Lehman saw a red Mini Cooper with a male driver heading west on Route 192 and the corner of Route 192 and Route 15

5:30-6:30 PM At least two people see RFG moving the Mini in the parking lot across from the Street of Shops (SoS) in Lewisburg.

6:00-8:00 PM Store owner in the SoS, Brad Alvey, reported seeing RFG. At least two witnesses report seeing RFG in the SoS with the "Mystery Woman." That may or may not include Alvey.

11:36 PM PEF calls the Bellefonte Police Department (BPD), after repeated efforts to call RFG's cell phone go unanswered. BPD also call and leave messages of his voicemail.

After consulting with then BPD Chief Duane Dixon, BPD issued a BOLA on the Mini and RFG (this might have occurred after midnight).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Slightly updated post disappearance timeline.

Post Disappearance Timeline

This is the timeline for events that happened after the first weekend of the disappearance.

4/18/25 “Wilkes Barrie sighting” Conflicting claims on status

4/21/05 $5000 reward offered in RFG case. Around this time, family website started; later increased to $15,000

c. 5/8/05 Cadaver dog provided by the Union County Sheriff’s Office taken “back to the river.”

5/17/05 Primary Election for DA, Madeira (R) vs. Arnold (D) in the Municipal Election

5/27/05 "Southfield sighting"

Early July, 05 PEF polygraphed

7/29/05 Laptop found in Susquehanna

9/2/05 LG granted trusteeship.

September 05 LG polygraphed, drive discovered in the Susquehanna (announced 10/31/05)

11/8/05 MTM defeats JKA

December 05 FBI reports that cannot recover the data

January 2006 Madeira sworn in, Weaver becomes chief of BPD, Bosak begins covering the story for the CDT, JKA removed by MTM.

5/13/06 Bosak publishes "Missed Leads" in the CDT, Dateline story on RFG, emphasising the "Mystery Woman."

5/17/06 MTM announces the will be reviewed by the The Pennsylvania State Police – Criminal Investigation Analysis Unit (PSP-CIA)

September 06 Reward expires.

October-November, 06 PSP-CIA review completed (it is believed
that they discovered the computer searches)

July 2007 JKA publishes Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury on-line.

2/26/08 Bosak shows links with Wiley and 20/20 Vision.

7/1/08 Buehner/McKnight press conference, MTM responds on 7/3/08; drive sent to Kroll.

August 2008 Bosak leaves the CDT but starts the Just Gricar blog on the CDT website in September.

October 2008 Kroll could not recover the data. It was announced that RFG had been asking about how to remove the data from the laptop, and may have bought software to erase the data.

2/9/09 JJ starts Sporadic Comments, later called Sporadic Comments on Ray Gricar on the CDT website

Mid-February 2009 Just Gricar ends.

4/15/09 MTM announces the computer searches

11/8/09 MTM defeated for reelection by SPM

January 2010 SPS fired as ADA by SPM; PEF had transferred several weeks before

3/31/10 SPM announces review panel.

2/28/11 Disappeared does episode "A Family's Curse;" some additional information comes out

3/31/11 Gamin, then of the P-N does story that Sandusky was being investigated. No link to RFG in that story.

4/1/11 SPS’s PM on RFG’s involvement in the 1998 case.

6/30/11 LG files petition to declare RFG dead.

7/25/11 LG petition granted.

11/5/11 Sandusky presentment released, RFG mentioned in regard to Victim 6

12/16/11 Second Dateline story on RFG

December 2011 JKA says that RFG removed the case from her; Scheffler states that he recommended charges

4/14/12 RFG's redacted FBI file released.

4/15/12 Gamin publishes a story in P-N on RFG noting the number of lady friends he had.

6/22/12 Sandusky convicted on 45 count including 3 of the 4 regarding Victim 6.

7/12/12 Freeh Report released.

October 2012 SPS arrested for drugs

11/1/12 Spanier indicted; RFG's actions regarding Victim 6 plays a prominent part in the presentment

July 2013 SPS takes a plea bargain

11/5/2013 SPM reelected DA, unopposed

November 2013 Decision to move the case to the PSP, not announced until 2/14

Spring 2014 $5000 offered

September 2014 Sporadic Comments ends

March 2017 Spanier convicted

May 2017 SPM loses Democratic primary

April 8, 2021 Rebecca Knight begins Final Argument podcast and provides information from the case file.

June 2021 Spanier jailed for several months

September 3, 2021 Buehner dies

May 27, 2022 Final Argument’s last entry to date.

December 2024 Weaver resigns as Chief of BPD, takes job with Centre County Sherriff’s Office

April 15. 2025 20th anniversary

August 28, 2025 1988 conviction Subramanyam “Subu” Vedam for murder overturned based on RFG’s failure to disclose information (Brady violation). As an ADA, RFG had prosecuted the cases against Vedam in 1983 as well as the 1988 retrial while he was DA.

 

[Sweetluv]

Thanks @J. J. in Phila for the updated timeline.. Ray possibly sighted in a metallic colored car is new info for me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks @J. J. in Phila for the updated timeline.. Ray possibly sighted in a metallic colored car is new info for me.

That has been around for a while.

Fenton thought it 4/15; Grine, was not sure if it was 4/14 or 4/15.

Grine, prior to his election as judge, was the DA that hired RFG back in late 1980. Grine, prior to law school (Dickinson), was State College police officer. Obviously, if RFG was in Lewisburg at either 2:50 PM to 3:15 PM, he was not 60 miles away behind the Courthouse in Bellefonte at 3:00 PM on the same day.

He could have been there at 4/14, however.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Another video: Ray Gricar — Unresolved

Balanced but with some inaccuracies. Not a lot.