PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, ruled suicide but possible homicide, Jan 2011

  • #521
Looking at the crime scene, she must have laid with her head on the floor because that head gash would have bled a lot. Since there’s not much blood on the corner you’d expect that she had stopped bleeding well before she was propped up against the cupboards.
There was a big pool of blood in the photos where her head was probably initially on the ground. There was also a stream of blood on her face that the private investigator said in the Hulu docuseries that it indicated she was initially lying on her back and was moved to be propped up against the cabinets.
 
  • #522
I wouldn't be surprised if he murdered her, left her in the apartment, cleaned himself up, then went to the gym, called a bunch of times to cover his track, work himself up in a rehearsed state of panic to sound convincing over the phone to the 911 operator.

A psychopath has a shrunken amygdala, which means as a result they feel no fear, remote, guilt, or shame, they have no emotional empathy as well and an overdeveloped pre-frontal cortex which results in serious control over all their impulses and the ability to hide their nasty side from anyone they want and unleashing the nasty side when they feel it's safe to do so with unmasking. Hence why they can easily compartmentalize a kill, move on fast from the act, and go straight home like nothing happened. But they are extremely skilled at faking emotions to sound distressed, afraid, in panic, etc... to make anyone believe them.

Hence why, I wouldn't be surprised if the fiance is faking everything this entire time since the moment he left the apartment at 4:45 pm.
I agree with you about the fiancé possibly going to the gym as an alibi and to give himself time to come up with a plan.

The Hulu docuseries said it was the building’s policy that the doorman could only leave his post if law enforcement came. The rules dictated that he had to call a maintenance person to let tenants into their apartments, which he did, but it’s unclear why the maintenance person didn’t show up.
 
  • #523
At best, more than 14 years later, IMO, the manner of death should be ruled "undetermined."


10/13/25

In the end, Philadelphia Chief Medical Examiner Lindsay Simon disagreed.

On Oct. 10, 2025, in a 32-page review obtained by PEOPLE, Simon writes that the ME’s office was “asked to conduct an independent and unbiased review of all available materials relating to the death of Ellen Greenberg.”

Simon said she reviewed extensive records incuding reports from Wecht, Ross and Thomas Brennan, the private investigator hired by the Greenbergs and the documentary.

In her final analysis, Simon writes that “while the distribution of injuries is admittedly unusual, the fact remains that Ellen would be capable of inflicting these injuries herself," noting she was a "young woman suffering from anxiety."

Simon writes that “the fiancé’s DNA was not detected on the knife used to inflict the injuries” and that there was no evidence of an abusive relationship between them.

No findings of a struggle were found at the scene, she said.

“With all of this information considered, it is the opinion of the undersigned that the manner of Ellen Greenberg’s death is best classified as ‘suicide.’

“All opinions stated in this report are expressed with a reasonable degree of medical certainty.”

Podraza and a spokesperson for the City of Philadelphia and the medical examiner did not immediately respond to PEOPLE's request for comment.
 
  • #524
DBM.
 
  • #525
  • #526
From the recent documentary, she was extremely agitated that day. Her friend’s dad even said she was crazy to his daughter. I believe it could be suicide only if she had a psychotic break, because no rational (even suicidal) person would ever be able to do that to themselves. It is possible that happened. Or it is possible that her fiancé became so overwhelmed and frustrated by her that he did something terrible and got away with it. I do not think it would be intentional in that scenario. I know which scenario I am going with.
 
  • #527
Ellen Greenberg Death — SUICIDE After years of debate, the Philadelphia Medical Examiner’s Office has reaffirmed that Ellen Greenberg’s 2011 deathn despite 20 stab wounds remains officially ruled a suicide.

 
  • #528
Quite possibly the most absurd ruling I've ever heard of.
I want to know why.
 
  • #529
Moo...if the stabbings in back of head went in at side angles, then maybe she could do that. But if the knife went in straight, I don't think that she could do that consistently..moo
 
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  • #530
Moo...if the stabbings in back of head went in at side angles, then maybe she could do that. But if the knife went in straight, I don't think that she could do that consistently..moo
That’s from the modeling. Newsnation and Gavin Fish.
 

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  • #531
  • #532
Moo...from the pics, it seems she would need to use both hands to stab herself at the angles shown...moo
 
  • #533
Gavin Fish will be talking about this ridiculous outcome on his YouTube channel at 7:30 pm ET tonight.
He's been going through 32 pages of the ME's report.
 
  • #534
...the fact remains that Ellen would be capable of inflicting these injuries herself," noting she was a "young woman suffering from anxiety."
(snipped by me) ahh yes, makes perfect sense... I'm sure we've all known someone anxious (and its so unusual for a young woman starting her 'real' adult life in a high stress career potentially having relationship issues to be anxious!) but without known history of severe MI who chooses to stab themselves (a very common suicide method among successful young women in the USA, especially those who live in a high rise condo with balcony access) but would rather stab themselves clothed, in the back of the head and neck, where its hard to get good aim or strength in the hand! Dime a dozen.
 

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