PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

[McSpy]

On Dateline, Gary Hilton appears much more of a talker than I envisioned. He came across to me as being real full of himself. The one thing I did notice about him is that he tried to get rid of evidence, even to the point of decapitating his victims. Although, I don't know what he did with the removed body parts. Maybe he thought it was easier to get rid of the head and hands, than the whole body. DNA testing was available then and it was still advancing, so he seemed out of touch on forensics. I think he was thinking about dental and fingerprints as identifiers of the victims when he butchered them. I think he enjoyed killing and getting away with it. Money was his motive, but again, I think he really enjoyed toying with his victims and killing them too. He enjoyed the control over them. Yes, he was a true psychopath. I believe he had killed more people. In fact, even though the MO (how Judy was found) was not exactly like what happened to his known victims, he may have perfected his craft. Judy was found 6 months after she disappeared. Her dental records were used to ID her body. Maybe, Gary Hilton had learned from this and later used decapitation as a way to stall identification. I could be way off base on this, but after watching that show, I truely believe he had to have killed before the known victims he was convicted of killing. The only power he holds now (full of himself) is his secrets. JMO

 

[gaia227]

I haven't been around a lot lately - I am very happy to see Judy's thread getting so much attention!

It is interesting to note that Gary Hilton was convicted of the murders of John and Irene Bryant, an elderly couple hiking in Pisgah National Forest, North Carolina. Pisgah runs into and has trails around Asheville, NC where Judy was found.
That certainly doesn't answer the many, many questions that come along with her murder and location but it is an interesting connection with GH.


http://hikewnc.info/trailheads/pisgah/

 

[fridaybaker]

Question: Anyone know if this is descriptive of any kind of mental "break" or issue? A period of noticeable altered state -dazed or "not quite there" followed by behavior that, without knowing the person, would be considered normal? JS was noted by a couple of strangers (if the Philly sightings are to be believed) to be behaving strangely or something, although I think that this was not extreme. Then, in NC, no one who reports a sighting, mentions this.

Also, the whole situation of clothing, as well as the "lesbian" comment by LE are curious to me. The contents of the suitcase in the hotel room weren't listed but with I really wonder if there were clean changes of underwear in it. The only two reasons I can think of for there not to be used underwear in said suitcase would be throwing them away due to "monthlies" (this is where some info. from family would be helpful) or that one forgot to pack clean ones, in which case, I'd think that the first place one would arrive at in the a.m., pronto, would be the department store (Macy's?) to get clean ones. In any case, surely this can be answered by family/LE?)

Anyway, re: the clothing/cosmetibles: Not knowing exactly what it is that the family has said that she wouldn't have carried with her -makeup, shampoo, etc., the police seemed to think that NOTHING in the hotel room indicated that a woman had stayed the night there. That would seem to indicate no "female" type of shampoo, conditioner, lady's deodorant, make-up. Did this woman really never carry any of those things? Perhaps she didn't, because she also carried a backpack with her. How many woman carry backpacks around when they attend pharmaceutical conferences (I've never seen one and have attended many -a seemingly high powered attorney's wife, carrying around a "ragged" old, RED, packback??? Now, that is odd.)

Which leads me to the rest of the clothing: Found with very manly-like clothing, albeit camping or hiking in the woods -hiking boots, long underwear and........ cash in her shirt? What woman puts money in her shirt pocket? Or, perhaps I misunderstood this and this was considered something that the killer left behind? And then the LE's comments re: the "lesbians" nearby. Was he simply mentioning things that would prompt people who knew her to come forward?

These things are just odd to me although perhaps nothing. This was a woman who doesn't fit the mold -affluent attorney's wife, lives in tony suburb, with particularly manly traits. Or, perhaps it's just life. Anyway, those particulars just jumped out at me.

 

[McSpy]

Question: Anyone know if this is descriptive of any kind of mental "break" or issue? A period of noticeable altered state -dazed or "not quite there" followed by behavior that, without knowing the person, would be considered normal? JS was noted by a couple of strangers (if the Philly sightings are to be believed) to be behaving strangely or something, although I think that this was not extreme. Then, in NC, no one who reports a sighting, mentions this.

Also, the whole situation of clothing, as well as the "lesbian" comment by LE are curious to me. The contents of the suitcase in the hotel room weren't listed but with I really wonder if there were clean changes of underwear in it. The only two reasons I can think of for there not to be used underwear in said suitcase would be throwing them away due to "monthlies" (this is where some info. from family would be helpful) or that one forgot to pack clean ones, in which case, I'd think that the first place one would arrive at in the a.m., pronto, would be the department store (Macy's?) to get clean ones. In any case, surely this can be answered by family/LE?)

Anyway, re: the clothing/cosmetibles: Not knowing exactly what it is that the family has said that she wouldn't have carried with her -makeup, shampoo, etc., the police seemed to think that NOTHING in the hotel room indicated that a woman had stayed the night there. That would seem to indicate no "female" type of shampoo, conditioner, lady's deodorant, make-up. Did this woman really never carry any of those things? Perhaps she didn't, because she also carried a backpack with her. How many woman carry backpacks around when they attend pharmaceutical conferences (I've never seen one and have attended many -a seemingly high powered attorney's wife, carrying around a "ragged" old, RED, packback??? Now, that is odd.)

Which leads me to the rest of the clothing: Found with very manly-like
clothing, albeit camping or hiking in the woods -hiking boots, long underwear and........ cash in her shirt? What woman puts money in her shirt pocket? Or, perhaps I misunderstood this and this was considered something that the killer left behind? And then the LE's comments re: the "lesbians" nearby. Was he simply mentioning things that would prompt people who knew her to come forward
These things are just odd to me although perhaps nothing. This was a woman who doesn't fit the mold -affluent attorney's wife, lives in tony suburb, with particularly manly traits. Or, perhaps it's just life. Anyway, those particulars just jumped out at me.

Good points! I noticed the same things. I find it very odd that money was found in (supposedly) her shirt pocket. I don't know any woman who would put money in a shirt pocket. Pants pocket-- yes. Shirt pocket-- no. I can picture a wad of cash in a woman's shirt pocket--Comical! The backpack doesn't seem odd to me, but no cosmetics does, especially if she was in a major city where one would dress up for the evening on occasion. LE found no dirty clothes in the hotel room, which is very odd. She didn't even change her underwear? She threw out her underwear and the ragged red backpack on that one trip? I do not know what to think!

 

[xLiqoricex]

I haven't been on in a week! No internet and it was terrible!! LOL. I'm so sorry beloved Sleuth folks. I have to catch up now. Looks like some good postings-yummy!

 

[xLiqoricex]

Thanks for the description on the GH show. Wish I could have watched it. I think it is totally disgusting and evil to use decapitation as a way to dispose of evidence. Didn't someone say that her jaw was like detached from her face or something like that? I forget-forgive me. Maybe someone tried to decapitate her. GH sounds proud of what he does and over confident. LE or someone should ask him if he had anything to do with Judy Smith's death. Being so proud and full of himself maybe he would confess to doing it. Wouldn't surprise me.


I have always had a picture in my mind of the perp rummaging through Judys stuff and misplacing items or money and maybe that's why the money was in the shirt pocket. Maybe he or she was trying to hurry as to not be seen and he or she put the money in the pockets from it having been in an original spot some place else. No offense or to sound sexist but it's more of a male thing to put money in the shirt pockets. But how come the person didn't take the money? Was this person just out for a good kill? Hmmmm....

 

[McSpy]

Thanks for the description on the GH show. Wish I could have watched it. I think it is totally disgusting and evil to use decapitation as a way to dispose of evidence. Didn't someone say that her jaw was like detached from her face or something like that? I forget-forgive me. Maybe someone tried to decapitate her. GH sounds proud of what he does and over confident. LE or someone should ask him if he had anything to do with Judy Smith's death. Being so proud and full of himself maybe he would confess to doing it. Wouldn't surprise me.


I have always had a picture in my mind of the perp rummaging through Judys stuff and misplacing items or money and maybe that's why the money was in the shirt pocket. Maybe he or she was trying to hurry as to not be seen and he or she put the money in the pockets from it having been in an original spot
some place else. No offense or to sound sexist but it's more of a male thing to put money in the shirt pockets. But how come the person didn't take the money? Was this person just out for a good kill? Hmmmm....

If the perp was after money, I think he missed it, because women generally don't put money in shirt pockets. He probably rifled through her backpack for her wallet and maybe through her pants pockets. I truly believe he didn't think to look in the shirt pocket. One of the things that was different from Hilton's other victims is that he didn't try to get a pin number from Judy by driving around to ATMs. Although, maybe Judy didn't have an ATM card. Some people didn't use them back then, as much as people do today.

 

[JeannieC]

QUOTE=xLiqoricex;7106987]I haven't been on in a week! No internet and it was terrible!! LOL. I'm so sorry beloved Sleuth folks. I have to catch up now. Looks like some good postings-yummy![/QUOTE]

Welcome back, Glad to see you nline: again!

Let's ge this arty: started!​

 

[JeannieC]

If the perp was after money, I think he missed it, because women generally don't put money in shirt pockets. He probably rifled through her backpack for her wallet and maybe through her pants pockets. I truly believe he didn't think to look in the shirt pocket. One of the things that was different from Hilton's other victims is that he didn't try to get a pin number from Judy by driving around to ATMs. Although, maybe Judy didn't have an ATM card. Some people didn't use them back then, as much as people do today.

You're right. More people used checks then. Women who traveled learned not to put their money on one place in case they were robbed. Many put it in their bra, in different pockets, and in shirt pockets.

We might be thinking about a man's shirt with the chest pocket. This was a woman's shirt. The pocket could be on the hip.

 

[JeannieC]

Thanks for the description on the GH show. Wish I could have watched it. I think it is totally disgusting and evil to use decapitation as a way to dispose of evidence. Didn't someone say that her jaw was like detached from her face or something like that? I forget-forgive me. Maybe someone tried to decapitate her. GH sounds proud of what he does and over confident. LE or someone should ask him if he had anything to do with Judy Smith's death. Being so proud and full of himself maybe he would confess to doing it. Wouldn't surprise me.


I have always had a picture in my mind of the perp rummaging through Judys stuff and misplacing items or money and maybe that's why the money was in the shirt pocket. Maybe he or she was trying to hurry as to not be seen and he or she put the money in the pockets from it having been in an original spot some place else. No offense or to sound sexist but it's more of a male thing to put money in the shirt pockets. But how come the person didn't take the money? Was this person just out for a good kill? Hmmmm....

Hilton is a psychopath. He would enjoy toying with LE but you can't believe much of what he says when if he were to confess or if he doesn't confess. Ted bundy told of girls he had murdered and gave false locations for their bodies. So did the Riverside killer. They love things like that. They don't have a conscience and most of them, like Bundy will give only enough information to get something in return. Bundy used it to get a reprieve on the death penalty. That only worked once but not in Florida.

 

[JeannieC]

I haven't been on in a week! No internet and it was terrible!! LOL. I'm so sorry beloved Sleuth folks. I have to catch up now. Looks like some good postings-yummy!

Just gotta ask. Did you go through internet withdrawal.......
anic: then :noooo: followed by :rage:and finally rayer:

 

[kemo]

When Georgia brought Hilton to trial on the Meredith Emerson case, he pled guilty and gave a full account of the crime. The key was that he was given "Life without" in exchange. Florida refused to make any deals on the Cheryl Dunlap case and he pled not guilty. He got the death penalty. He is now in the process of being tried in Federal Court in NC on the Bryant case and he had pled not-guilty. The death penalty is on the table.

In at least one of the statements he has given to the press, he indicated that he might be willing to talk about "other" cases but he wouldn't if the death penalty were hanging over his head.

At this point, that might be the end of it. It is possible that he might be willing to "tell all" if ALL death penalty cases were dropped but I'm not so sure either Florida or the Feds would be willing to do it. Since he knows he's never getting out anyway, he would probably be willing to admit to everything he has done since it would raise his "status" among the other inmates. He might also start playing games and confessing to crimes he didn't do.

It would be nice to give families a little closure and close out some old cases but I'm so sure there is any real chance of it happening. In the meantime, I hope NC authorities keep working on the Judy Smith case.

 

[JeannieC]

When Georgia brought Hilton to trial on the Meredith Emerson case, he pled guilty and gave a full account of the crime. The key was that he was given "Life without" in exchange. Florida refused to make any deals on the Cheryl Dunlap case and he pled not guilty. He got the death penalty. He is now in the process of being tried in Federal Court in NC on the Bryant case and he had pled not-guilty. The death penalty is on the table.

In at least one of the statements he has given to the press, he indicated that he might be willing to talk about "other" cases but he wouldn't if the death penalty were hanging over his head.

At this point, that might be the end of it. It is possible that he might be willing to "tell all" if ALL death penalty cases were dropped but I'm not so sure either Florida or the Feds would be willing to do it. Since he knows he's never getting out anyway, he would probably be willing to admit to everything he has done since it would raise his "status" among the other inmates. He might also start playing games and confessing to crimes he didn't do.

It would be nice to give families a little closure and close out some old cases but I'm so sure there is any real chance of it happening. In the meantime, I hope NC authorities keep working on the Judy Smith case.

The trouble with a psychopath serial killer is they have no regrets, no feelings, they would say anything to benefit themselves but like I said, Bundy only told enough to help himself. I believe Hilton would do the same, just in case something else comes up involving the death penalty in another state.

The Feds don't usually make deals. In Bundy's case Fl didn't.

I believe NC would. jmo

 

[McSpy]

Hilton is a psychopath. He would enjoy toying with LE but you can't believe much of what he says when if he were to confess or if he doesn't confess. Ted bundy told of girls he had murdered and gave false locations for their bodies. So did the Riverside killer. They love things like that. They don't have a conscience and most of them, like Bundy will give only enough information to get something in return. Bundy used it to get a reprieve on the death penalty. That only worked once but not in Florida.

I agree. They also like to use that to get out of their cage and into the fresh air.

 

[xLiqoricex]

Just gotta ask. Did you go through internet withdrawal.......
anic: then :noooo: followed by :rage:and finally rayer:

LMAO. Yes, I did. It was terrible too. I've been busy unpacking stuff so I haven't been on here in a while again =[. So sorry. Eventually, the endless unpacking will stop and I can be on here more.:great:

 

[xLiqoricex]

If the perp was after money, I think he missed it, because women generally don't put money in shirt pockets. He probably rifled through her backpack for her wallet and maybe through her pants pockets. I truly believe he didn't think to look in the shirt pocket. One of the things that was different from Hilton's other victims is that he didn't try to get a pin number from Judy by driving around to ATMs. Although, maybe Judy didn't have an ATM card. Some people didn't use them back then, as much as people do today.

This makes more sense, lol. Thanks.

 

[McSpy]

Lets say Judy decided to go to NC on her own. Maybe she was planning to stay somewhere like a hotel, but didn't get a chance. Perhaps, she met a seemingly nice man as she hiked or at the mansion. Maybe it was his camp---not hers, where he lead her that fateful day. It doesn't seem like LE found a sleeping bag. I believe they found a blanket (where did that come from?), but the blanket could have been someone elses--not hers. If it was her blanket, she must have done a lot of shopping--she had a new backpack, blanket, long underwear, hiking shoes . . . I don't understand why she didn't tell her husband of her plans.

 

[McSpy]

Okay, here is another thought. Maybe, Judy felt her husband didn't appreciate her. It was adding up in her mind. Perhaps, he was annoyed with her about forgetting her ID and showed it. When she apologized with flowers, maybe he didn't seem to accept and forgive as she would have liked, so she decided to disappear for a few days to make him care, but it turned bad in the end. Someone came along and killed her. It could have been a seemingly nice man, who took her mind off her troubled marriage. He was company for a short time--not serious. Perhaps, someone to talk to . . or share a casual hike.

 

[xLiqoricex]

Okay, here is another thought. Maybe, Judy felt her husband didn't appreciate her. It was adding up in her mind. Perhaps, he was annoyed with her about forgetting her ID and showed it. When she apologized with flowers, maybe he didn't seem to accept and forgive as she would have liked, so she decided to disappear for a few days to make him care, but it turned bad in the end. Someone came along and killed her. It could have been a seemingly nice man, who took her mind off her troubled marriage. He was company for a short time--not serious. Perhaps, someone to talk to . . or share a casual hike.

Wow, all good ideas scenarios. This could explain why she was found with a book a few feet away from her. Maybe the perp she befriended did a surprise attack behind her while she was reading. He or she figured it was a good time to. It could have been unexpected and quick. This way, Judy would most likely not have any time to identify the attacker if she lived by any chance. Then he or she went through her stuff and left her there. I really think someone took advantage of her friendliness and love for hiking camping. I think she really met someone and he or she killed her. I don't think it was a case where Judy was at the wrong place at the wrong time. Unless someone spotted her and studied her every move but didn't attack just yet and found the perfect time to after a while. Judy seemed to have run into a lot of people so it wouldn't surprise me if she met a murderer and didn't know it.

Maybe her husband did show a lack of compassion and Judy became very vulnerable and hurt and she just left. Someone could have taken advantage of her vulnerable state. Sometimes when I'm upset, I tend to talk to strangers! Not a very good idea! Maybe Judy wanted to cling onto whatever she could.

 

[JeannieC]

Okay, here is another thought. Maybe, Judy felt her husband didn't appreciate her. It was adding up in her mind. Perhaps, he was annoyed with her about forgetting her ID and showed it. When she apologized with flowers, maybe he didn't seem to accept and forgive as she would have liked, so she decided to disappear for a few days to make him care, but it turned bad in the end. Someone came along and killed her. It could have been a seemingly nice man, who took her mind off her troubled marriage. He was company for a short time--not serious. Perhaps, someone to talk to . . or share a casual hike.

Makes sense to me.