PA - Kenzie Houk, 26, pregnant, murdered, Wampum, 20 Feb 2009

[Bobbisangel]

The jail says the can't hold him and are asking that he be transferred:

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Pregnant_Woman_Killed.html

One thing in the article - it mentions that this 11-year-old child is 4'8". Definitely smallish - small enough to fend off if you're awake and there's no gun. My 8 year old is 4'11".

His attorneys says he doesn't believe the physical evidence will show this boy did it (no surprise there), but a family member said the boy had made some threats regarding his stepmom.

I do hope they move him to a juvenile facility.

This boy might be short but he looks like a pretty big kid to me in his picture.
If he had grabbed a knife he would have taken the girlfriend by surprise and probably slit her throat before she was awake enough to know what happened. She was also big and bulky being that far along. Hard to move very fast when you are all belly and laying down.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Fluffy is NOT a kind word no matter how it is used. Would you call a child fluffy to their face ? If not, then why say it here.

I like fluffy and I don't see anything wrong with it. I imagine it would be said with affection. My best friend and I are both fluffy...I llke fluffy. Just something about the sound of that word.....

 

[Bobbisangel]

I'm really curious...why isn't everyone jumping to the defense of this 11 yr old like they did for the almost 9 year old that shot his dad and Tim? Is it because there are different people here for this case? Almost everyone defended the 9 yr old and some are still defending him even though he has pled guilty. I don't see that happening over this 11 yr old and it surprises me.
The situations are nearly the same.

 

[LinasK]

I agree with that. And Gun control may see the rate rise to start with but you do a buyback, you give an amnesty, you start teaching about what guns do, do campaigns showing WHAT Guns do to people.

The school massacres , we just don't have them. Because kids don't have ready acsess to guns of any sort youth or adult..

This 11 yr old thought Guns were fine, knew how to handle one, enough to shoot a 8 mth pregnant woman in the HEAD and blow her away

And THEN just walk off to school like it meant nothing

And that IS Because guns are "a way of life" " a part of the culture"

BUT

No one said there couldn't be a change

Im sorry , i know my opinion on this issue is probaby not welcome here, I am on an American board and I am not American.

But I feel strongly about this issue. And yes I do feel that it is the person behind the gun that is the culprit, I do understand that. But peoples mindesets need to be changed and having the RIGHT to bear arms is wrong - IMO

No Jane, I have to agree! Who in their right mind gives an 11-year-old a hunting rifle for a Christmas present?????:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[liljim]

I'm really curious...why isn't everyone jumping to the defense of this 11 yr old like they did for the almost 9 year old that shot his dad and Tim? Is it because there are different people here for this case? Almost everyone defended the 9 yr old and some are still defending him even though he has pled guilty. I don't see that happening over this 11 yr old and it surprises me.
The situations are nearly the same.

i think it was the confession video that really polarized people in the other case, there was no solid proof made public that it was the boy that shot the two men and then that video was just such terrible police work and absolutely seemed like it could have been a classic coerced false confession.

then shortly after they let out some more details to show that they had good reason to think it must have been the boy acting alone because they were taking so much heat over the video.

i think that is the main reason, in this case there was immediate strong evidence suggesting that this boy committed this crime. so other than his age we have been given no reason to question his guilt yet.

and also the victim - the fact that it was a pregnant woman that was killed will stir peoples emotions so much that they will be less sympathetic to ANY possible suspect.

another reason could be their appearances regarding how old they seem to be. the 8 year old - i would have believed he was 5 or 6 in that confession video by how he looked and acted, this 11 year old - if you showed me that picture and told me was 14 i wouldnt question it.

just some thoughts.

 

[Duelist Pearl]

OMG

That is horrendous







Just disgusting IMO

This person in the house was Robbing him. that is WRONG I totally understand that and he the robber should be locked up not MURDERED

and that is what this home occupant did - he murdered him in cold blood just opened up a round on him, why didn't he shoot him in the leg and then RUN Himself.

The home owner has no remorse whatsoever

No remorse for taking a life

And people thinking that is ok ?




What is this world coming to

I don't kow about not having any remorse....I certainly would...but if someone came into my house CARRYING A GUN...I would shoot to save myself and my family. Just because it was a pellet gun doesn't mean squat, if it is dark and he is holding a gun to you...you need to be faster....end of story. Shooting him in the leg may or may not have done anything....chances are he could have still gotton a shot off with a bullet in his leg.

 

[Duelist Pearl]

No Jane, I have to agree! Who in their right mind gives an 11-year-old a hunting rifle for a Christmas present?????:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Uhm...I got my first hunting rifle at 11 for christmas.

 

[southcitymom]

I'm really curious...why isn't everyone jumping to the defense of this 11 yr old like they did for the almost 9 year old that shot his dad and Tim? Is it because there are different people here for this case? Almost everyone defended the 9 yr old and some are still defending him even though he has pled guilty. I don't see that happening over this 11 yr old and it surprises me.
The situations are nearly the same.

That really is interesting Bobbisangel. The cases are amazingly similar, IMHO.

 

[southcitymom]

.....I maintain that children who are undergoing huge changes in their lives need to be counseled BY THEIR PARENTS...... IMHO

You make a good point, Fairy. I will say that many children do not receive such counseling from their family when going through huge life changes and the vast majority of these children do not act out by killing. More often than not, they act out in ways that are lower down on the criminal totem pole than murder (trouble in school, vandalism, stealing, drug abuse, etc....).

Everyone who kills a human being has a reason. A child who kills is so out of the norm that, regardless of the child's reasons, I think it can be safely assumed that something is very very wrong or off internally with the child. In some cases, I think the child can be "fixed" and grow up to be a responsible, productive member of society. In some cases, the child can't. But we must keep trying to help all children who commit such crimes.

 

[MeoW333]

My mother has worked in a state children's psychiatric hospital for years and she says the kids they're getting in keep getting worse. Juvenile detention will send children over from there to the state hospital and they have hired staff (look like bouncers) to stay with these kids every single minute. A couple of children in there have 2 "bouncers" to them. They're just too dangerous..

 

[Trino]

It's interesting that we keeping hearing statistics on absentee dads, yet the last three youth murders (including last week's 10 yr old Humboldt, Kansas boy) that have made the news have been in families with dads present.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's interesting that we keeping hearing statistics on absentee dads, yet the last three youth murders (including last week's 10 yr old Humboldt, Kansas boy) that have made the news have been in families with dads present.

From what I have read male juveniles commits parricide and matricide more often that female juveniles. Girls when they commit murder tend to kill their mothers more or talk friends into helping them kill the mother (matricide).

And from the cases I have read, most, but not all, the parent murdered lived in the home with the murderer and was not estranged from the juvenile.

IMO, I think it is a case of "damned if you do or damned if you don't." Kids today seem to have such internal rage if they are disciplined or are expected to follow rules and guidelines.

imoo

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

I suspect that the mother never had a chance to get up and do her daily duties. I think she was already laying in bed with a shotgun blast to her head.

The 4 year old probably woke up when the shotgun went off inside the home and may have hidden, if she saw her soon to be brother, with the shotgun. After he and the 7 year old left for school she probably went to her mommy and saw her. Then ran crying to tell someone.

imoo

The 4 year old was watching cartoons while eating breakfast when her mother was shot at 8 (ish?) .

The 4 year old didnt go into her mothers room until 9 and found her dead at that time, then went to to the tree trimmers.

This little detail is in alot of the media reports.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

How do we know these people weren't involved with the children, including the boy? I have read in articles that the ,soon to be step mother, had tried very hard to show this boy special attention and include him.

Well these type of children who premeditate murders aren't cases that are meant for the juvenile system and they are too young for the adult justice system imo. So the lawmakers have got to get a handle on such cases and find a place in the justice system to handle these type of cases.

imo

I have also read that the mother was trying to include him, get along with or whatever they want to call it. Its just my personal opinion based on my experience that it wasnt enough & wasnt done the right way.

The thing that irks me is HER family and other people have said that the boy said he was going to "pop her & the girls". He made threats to kill all 3 of them for at least 2 months and Jason Kraner told the press, family , Chris & Kenzie .... they didnt believe it.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96I2R300



Then theres this....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29363987/

Debate lingers over whether Brown should be tried as an adult. The family thinks he should because there are signs the act may have been premeditated.

May have been ? What ? He told them what he was thinking of doing & they didnt believe him.

"He, the kid, tried to muffle the sound and he didn't know what he was doing? Then, walk out and go to school? ... It's unbelievable. What would possess him to (do that)? It's crazy," said Jack Houk, the victim's father.

UNbelievable ? Um, no...he said he was thinking about / wanted to kill all 3 of them.


I havnt seen 1 single adult step up ! Thats pretty sad.

And for the record.....I feel hurt also for this family very much. Something simular happened in my family exactly 1 year ago involving an 11 yr old boy with problems. Thank God my niece didnt die ! Mant in my family raised all kinds of he!! re: the sentence - his momma is the one that should be in jail !

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

I like fluffy and I don't see anything wrong with it. I imagine it would be said with affection. My best friend and I are both fluffy...I llke fluffy. Just something about the sound of that word.....

I just meant referring to or saying that a young child is fluffy, fat, etc....

They have enough problems these days. And society wonders why we have young children with eating disorders & such ? Being called names is also on the list of "whys".

Besides, who the heck cares if he is "fluffy". He killed a woman---he didnt go gorge on Twinkies.

jmo

 

[hannahsnana]

I have also read that the mother was trying to include him, get along with or whatever they want to call it. Its just my personal opinion based on my experience that it wasnt enough & wasnt done the right way.

The thing that irks me is HER family and other people have said that the boy said he was going to "pop her & the girls". He made threats to kill all 3 of them for at least 2 months and Jason Kraner told the press, family , Chris & Kenzie .... they didnt believe it.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96I2R300



Then theres this....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29363987/

Debate lingers over whether Brown should be tried as an adult. The family thinks he should because there are signs the act may have been premeditated.

May have been ? What ? He told them what he was thinking of doing & they didnt believe him.

"He, the kid, tried to muffle the sound and he didn't know what he was doing? Then, walk out and go to school? ... It's unbelievable. What would possess him to (do that)? It's crazy," said Jack Houk, the victim's father.

UNbelievable ? Um, no...he said he was thinking about / wanted to kill all 3 of them.


I havnt seen 1 single adult step up ! Thats pretty sad.

And for the record.....I feel hurt also for this family very much. Something simular happened in my family exactly 1 year ago involving an 11 yr old boy with problems. Thank God my niece didnt die ! Mant in my family raised all kinds of he!! re: the sentence - his momma is the one that should be in jail !

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, WHY are you blaming the victim(s)????? When I see the pictures of those little girls, it breaks my heart. Seeing the boy's picture leaves me just......cold.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

I relate to this. One of the things I believe Linda7NJ has been trying to impress (or maybe she hasn't, but it's what I'm getting from some of her thoughts) in these threads (about young children killing) is that sociopaths come in that way. That is the prevailing psychiatric wisdom on the subject from all reputable points.

Psychiatry being a "soft" science and me being a big believer that ALL humans possess the capacity to become better, I allow my mind to remain open to possibilities outside the realm of what we "know scientifically."

Hell - for years we thought Pluto was a planet. :crazy: Who can say what we might learn or unlearn about the sociopathic mind in the days ahead of us?

That is not to say that either this boy or the 8-old-boy ARE sociopaths. We can only speculate about that. It is certainly a very fair area to explore when children this age do something so unthinkable.

Your last 3 thoughts says it all. Nobody knows the life of this boy when he was being raised by his daddy & grandmother. He may have been a very sweet, kind little boy. We dont know.

We dont know anything about his homelife prior to May 2008. I feel aweful for the victim & the families involved -- including his classmates, etc....
This young boy MAY (imo, he did) have had other problems in the last 10 yrs of his life...or maybe not and possibly the the jealousy was so overwhelming, he snapped.

Thank God he didnt kill the 2 little girls too. He said he wanted to.
He needed some MAJOR help...and apparently didnt get any.

I wont even touch on the subject of him getting a gun for Christmas, with the family knowing how he felt.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

Uhm...I got my first hunting rifle at 11 for christmas.

Children in my family have had guns at a young age, going way back.

But they werent/arent emotionally neglected. AND, the guns are not where they could get to them.

Hubby & all of his male family members, has a FFL, so we're "watched" and "inspected" at ANY time, without notice ....especially the safetly aspect of it.

 

[passionflower]

JVM covering this story tonight at 7EST on HLN

 

[SoobsinMI]

It's interesting that we keeping hearing statistics on absentee dads, yet the last three youth murders (including last week's 10 yr old Humboldt, Kansas boy) that have made the news have been in families with dads present.

I agree that it isn't just about absentee fathers, but absentee parents. I also agree with those that say blended (step) families really should get intense counseling PRIOR to marriage, and at least for the first year. Blending my family (DH had one child, I had one child) was VERY difficult. Not that we didn't love each other, but it took a long time for the "rules" of each home to blend. It also takes time for children who live with only one parent to be able to share that parent with others.

I dated (not lived with) my husband for three years, before we married. I'm sorry, but people jump into relationships WAY too fast, when they have kids. They only think about themselves, not the good of their children. He was the only person I introduced to my child, since my divorce, because I knew I'd eventually marry him. People have no business moving in with their boy/girlfriends immediately (and IMO, not at all when they have kids) and then immediately starting another family.

I'm not "blaming" the victim, I just wish people would put as much thought into their families, as they do as to what computer or car they will buy.