PA PA - Marjorie West, 4, McKean County, 8 May 1938

[docwho3]

I do not know the specifics of how and when the dogs were used in this case, other than what is stated in the case summary (see first post). . .

. . .Dogs are trained over varying types of terrain, with various types of masking scents, and with various types of distractions. They are tested on a regular basis by other trainers and handlers. The American Kennel Club offers "Titles" to dogs who pass their very demanding tests. . .

Very nice post but I did want to mention that it would seem that we do not know if the training at that time was the same as now or as thorough or was checked in the manner you describe modern day Kennel Club procedures etc. When this case came through way back when (1938) I do not know how the dogs were trained. Has your research shed any light on this aspect of things? Thanks.

 

[Richard]

Very nice post but I did want to mention that it would seem that we do not know if the training at that time was the same as now or as thorough or was checked in the manner you describe modern day Kennel Club procedures etc. When this case came through way back when (1938) I do not know how the dogs were trained. Has your research shed any light on this aspect of things? Thanks.

I have read some very good books on training tracking dogs which were written in the 1950's and 60's. And those books referred to methods of training that had been around for years. I cannot, however, answer your question as to exactly how things were done in 1938.

Dogs have been used for tracking for hundreds of years. What the dog does and how he processes the scent information is the same now as it was in the beginning. I think that maybe the training has developed and progressed over the years - more for the benefit of the handler than the dog.

Some breeds are more suited to the task than others, but almost all can be taught to track.

You really don't teach a dog to scent. He does that naturally. But you have to keep him focussed, lengthen his attention span, speed, and endurance - all by keeping him happy and challenged. The dog needs to be taught what the handler wants him to do with his scenting ability, and the handler needs to learn to believe in his dog's natural ability.

There is no way that a human can begin to understand exactly how the dog's nose and brain work, but by understanding a bit about what he does and getting him to work with the handler, you can form a very effective search team. Like anything else, practice and experience make the team better.

In a perfect world, tracking dogs could make very short work of locating lost persons. But the world is not perfect. Besides all of the limiting factors like rugged terrain, water, cold, heat, rain, wind, skill level of the team, etc. , there is the factor of WHEN the team is called in. Many times, the area is saturated with searchers before the tracking dog team is called in. Sometimes the team is not even given an initial scent item or likely starting point, but rather dropped off in the middle of nowhere with a lot of inexperienced volunteers to get in the way.

Other times, as in this case, although the dogs did their job and followed the scent - it seems that other factors (vehicle) prevented them from finding the child.

 

[Bluecat]

Thanks, Richard - that was an awesome introduction to tracking. From what little information was still available, it seemed reasonable to reintroduce alternative theories. I guess that we are back to - the adoption ring, or other opportunistic passerby. It does not seem like it could have been the family, at least.

 

[reb]

bumping up this thread.... has there ever been more research done on these illegal adoption agencies?? a book maybe,, an expose' including details from those who may have worked for them years ago?? or those who suspect they may have been abducted?? who was doing the kidnapping.. hired guns- guys who already had a criminal history,, the mafia? someone should do research on all info/records that can be found on these 'high paying clients' who have adopted kids... who were they? any famous people? what agencies did they adopt in? and what did their adopted kids look like? comparisons should be done on these people with kids who went missing around the same time.... yeah, in a perfect world,, right??

i'm just so curious about these rumors.... is there really proof of this happening? i know its heyday was in the earlier part of the 1900's.. but does it still happen? and why has it not been looked into more?

 

[reb]

oh,, AND..... what was the conclusion of the comparison between this jane doe and majorie west?? i'm assuming it's not a match....

 

[reb]

i thought this was worth repeating:

<Additional speculation pointed towards the Tennessee Children's Home Society near Memphis, Tennessee. The facility was operated by Georgia Tann, who was initially lauded for placing at-risk children in adoptive homes. Authorities eventually learned that Tann had kidnapped over 1200 young children during the years 1932 through 1951. The majority of victims were abducted from states bordering Tennessee, although some children resided in Connecticut. Judge Camille Kelly approved Tann's custody bids for the majority of the victims. Tann placed most of the children with childless couples in New York City, New York or Los Angeles, California.>

so.. how many OTHER agencies have done this over the years...? and were these kids ever reunited with their real parents...?

 

[meggilyweggily]

Barbara Raymond recently wrote an excellent book about Georgia Tann, called The Baby Thief. I read it and was appalled by that damage that horrible woman inflicted. Sadly, most of the children she stole were never reunited with their biological parents.

 

[Bluecat]

If Marjorie was 4 or 5 years old, wouldn't she have said something to the adoptive parents if she was kidnapped? She would have been quite capable of carrying on a conversation with an adult at that point. She definitely would have been able to inquire about her parents, and wonder why the bad person took her away from the fun time in the park, or that sort of thing.

After reading everything about this, it seems to me that Georgia Tann's M.O. was to use her power to persuade or command people to give up their babies, using a corrupt judge to reinforce her wishes. It does not seem likely that she would have risked taking a child away from a functional family like this. They do not seem particularly poor (or at least, not in the same way as the parents she victimized).

I favor the idea that she either wandered further than anyone realized, or expired relatively close by but her small body was lost in underbrush and was not found. It can be extremely difficult to locate a body with a lot of brush on the ground - just look at the case of Chandra Levy - how long did her body lie in Rock Creek Park before she was found? In an area that was searched as thoroughly as humanly possible? How much easier would it be to not find a 5-year-old?

 

[Gina_M]

If Marjorie was 4 or 5 years old, wouldn't she have said something to the adoptive parents if she was kidnapped? She would have been quite capable of carrying on a conversation with an adult at that point. She definitely would have been able to inquire about her parents, and wonder why the bad person took her away from the fun time in the park, or that sort of thing.

I think children are still easily influenced at that age. If the kidnapper knows how to manipulate, they can make up a story and make sure the child either believes it or at least goes along with it. Look at Shawn Hornbeck, and Sharon Marshall. Shawn was taken at age 11, Sharon likely around age 6. We've discussed this in the Anna Waters forum too, because she was taken at age 5 and likely raised by another family. Whoever kidnapped her could have told her that something had happened to her family and she was being adopted.

 

[meggilyweggily]

After reading everything about this, it seems to me that Georgia Tann's M.O. was to use her power to persuade or command people to give up their babies, using a corrupt judge to reinforce her wishes. It does not seem likely that she would have risked taking a child away from a functional family like this.

Usually, Georgia Tann did coerce people into giving up their babies; however in the book I mentioned above, several instances were mentioned where she outright kidnapped children, usually by snatching them off the street. I would put nothing past this woman.

The book also mentioned a boy who had been taken from his mother when he was about four, Marjorie's age. He was placed in a foster home for a short time, then adopted by a family. The boy had dim memories of his real mother and tried to tell his adoptive parents about her, but they didn't believe him -- they had been told he'd been given up by his mother shortly after birth. They told him so many times that it was just his imagination that he came to believe them, and it wasn't until this boy was an adult and decided to do his own research that he realized his "imaginary" memories were in fact true. So it wouldn't be impossible for Marjorie to have been abducted and placed for adoption and not be able to either communicate what happened to her at the time, or remember it after she grew up.

 

[anthrobones]

Bumping up

 

[Richard]

In two months, this case will be 70 years old.

 

[Richard]

Here is an updated Doenetwork link:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/799dfpa.html

 

[Gina_M]

The author of this page states that he found Marjorie
http://www.mlrmag.com/FullText.asp?year=06&month=05&day=09

 

[anthrobones]

Bumping this up. I wonder who the author is and if he knows where Majorie is, why doesn't he tell the police, so everyone else knows where she is and her Doe page can be removed?

 

[joellegirl]

Wow. If it is really her I wish she would come forward! Is Dorothea still alive? They could use DNA to see if the supposed Marjorie is related. Instead of being secretive, I wish she wanted to help solve this mystery!

 

[Snackcakes66]

The author of this page states that he found Marjorie
http://www.mlrmag.com/FullText.asp?year=06&month=05&day=09

The author, Mr. Beck appears to still be the editor in chief of the Mountain Laurel review. I can send him an email asking for follow up. His last update was May 2006, saying he found her in 2000. If she went missing at age 3, would she have maintained her identity and known more than 60 years later who she is and where she came from? Maybe she would have distant memories, but I would think whomever took her would have moved, changed her name, and changed her appearance. I would like to know how he KNOWS it is Marjorie, and how she came to believe she is the same person. Would it be OK to invite Mr. Beck to the forum to comment?

 

[KarlK]

Would it be OK to invite Mr. Beck to the forum to comment?

Sure would!

 

[Snackcakes66]

I have emailed Mr. Beck, hopefully he will respond.

 

[anthrobones]

I don't understand why (if this person really is her), she would not at least let police know she is alive. Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but it kind of anger's me that someone would refuse to notify police that they are alive and well, when so many families with missing children and other family members have been waiting and waiting to find their loved ones.