PA - Michael, 50, & Cathryn Borden, 50, shot to death, 13 Nov 2005

[PrayersForMaura]

Oh, sorry you guys ..... I completely am reading past the defense words here!! :banghead:
I'm in sleep mode still. I love Saturdays ... my do-nothing-much days.

 

[reb]

WOW...... so according to one of those articles... david was actually ready to wipe out the ENTIRE FAMILY?????? unbelievable!! seems as if he was one gram of testosterone short of making this a 6-person homicide/suicide event.

 

[concernedperson]

WOW...... so according to one of those articles... david was actually ready to wipe out the ENTIRE FAMILY?????? unbelievable!! seems as if he was one gram of testosterone short of making this a 6-person homicide/suicide event.

reb, the way I understood it was a totally different family not the Bordens. Sort of a practice run, I guess.

 

[reb]

no no no... the one article said he chased kara's sister, who ran and hid in the bathroom, and was about to kill the younger brother too, who begged him not to shoot, then the brother ran to the neighbor's house for help.

i think he was *this close* to just killing them all.

 

[concernedperson]

no no no... the one article said he chased kara's sister, who ran and hid in the bathroom, and was about to kill the younger brother too, who begged him not to shoot, then the brother ran to the neighbor's house for help.

i think he was *this close* to just killing them all.

Oh, I see, I was referring to the video and the unknown family. I am trying to catch up tonight.

 

[newtv]

Oh, I see, I was referring to the video and the unknown family. I am trying to catch up tonight.

well no wonder the girl went with him-she would have known she was dealing with a complete maniac who could turn on her at any moment

 

[concernedperson]

well no wonder the girl went with him-she would have known she was dealing with a complete maniac who could turn on her at any moment

The fact that the sister said he was calling for Kara makes me less suspicious of her. She wasn't in his eyesight as not part and parcel to what he was doing.

 

[newtv]

The fact that the sister said he was calling for Kara makes me less suspicious of her. She wasn't in his eyesight as not part and parcel to what he was doing.

good point
we dont know anything for sure
she may have been trying to comfort somone like her mom-not expecting a killing but maybe hearing them argue

 

[KatherineQ]

This is a different story than it first appeared. At first, (at least to me) it appeared to be a normal high school boy driven over the edge by young love, and driven to commit the crime of passion for the girl he couldn't live without, in an instantaneous decision. That's not the case. He plotted this for awhile. This was not a case of exhaustion, and passion, and anger coming together in a horrible episode of spur-of-the-moment passion.

On the other hand, she needs to rethink how she behaves with boys. She needs to rethink how to behave in a way that she doesn't attract danger, and she needs to think about the kind of boys she will attract with her behaviors and photos and Karma.

Her parents seem like really, really lovely people. Besides calling the police to be there when they confronted this young couple when they returned home in the morning, it's hard to think of anything they could have done to prevent this.

Prayers for the other siblings in this family.

 

[newtv]

This is a different story than it first appeared. At first, (at least to me) it appeared to be a normal high school boy driven over the edge by young love, and driven to commit the crime of passion for the girl he couldn't live without, in an instantaneous decision. That's not the case. He plotted this for awhile. This was not a case of exhaustion, and passion, and anger coming together in a horrible episode of spur-of-the-moment passion.

On the other hand, she needs to rethink how she behaves with boys. She needs to rethink how to behave in a way that she doesn't attract danger, and she needs to think about the kind of boys she will attract with her behaviors and photos and Karma.

Her parents seem like really, really lovely people. Besides calling the police to be there when they confronted this young couple when they returned home in the morning, it's hard to think of anything they could have done to prevent this.

Prayers for the other siblings in this family.

the only reason i take issue here at all is that noone can predict danger and noone can be said to have attracted a certain type of person for what they wear or dont wear..there are lots of kids doing the same thing - many,many, many and nothing happens to them-its just too limited to think that she can know anything..its just a horribly random thing imo-great looking, kids with their clothes on attract danger and dont know it and so do prostitutes etc.
Its noones fault but his-and she could not have known anymore than anyone knows..especially at 14.
Its just a lot more to do with who u randomly meet and she was very unlucky-she will have enough to deal with never mind reflecting on how she caused this-the best guidance she can get is to be told over and over again that she could not have known ahead of time.
Her life is likely ruined anyhow-we will see her do drugs to numb her guilt and god knows what-if anything she needs alot of support for not being expected to know-and noone should at this time or any time soon talk to her about her behaviour attracting a killer.
Thats like saying women who get raped should not have breasts in the first place..if someone is a lunatic most of us dont know till after.
Its not as if she knew him a long time.

 

[mysteriew]

Prayers for the other siblings in this family.

I pray for all of the siblings, including Kara. Kara will pay for a lifetime for one connection she made as a little girl.
If she had hooked up with a 38 year old pervert, everyone would say she was taken advantage of (and I believe that BTW) by an adult who exploited her inexperience. Well she was taken advantage of- by an 18 yo who decided that things would go his way, and he would kill to make sure of that.
This was a boy who had been welcome in her home, probably from a home situation similiar to hers, and who even her parents evidently didn't have a problem with, other than the age difference.
But because he was who he was,and because of choices he made, she will always feel the pain of knowing how and why her parents were killed!

 

[KatherineQ]

Yes, if she had hooked up with a 38 year old pevert, it would be obvious who was guilty.

She didn't, though. She hooked up with a boy who was legally an adult, but in fact not that much older than she.

I'm done debating this. She's known for a long time that she was grossly disobeying her parents, her friends tried to warn her, she was out all night willingly with this guy and I think video will show she was with him willingly after he killed her parents.

This is a wake-up call to Kara. Her ability to be irresistable, although it strokes her ego, isn't a good thing.

 

[scandi]

How poignent your comments are KatherineQ,

What can America do to give post-adolescents, whose brains are not yet fully developed, a sixth sense about what is the right thing to do at any given moment ~ especially when it relates to the growing need or natural draw towards the opposite sex?

That's a hard one. I was a bit permissive too with one guy, but not till right before my 16th birthday. In those days I was naughty by given standards of the time. My mother wouldn't even let me wear lipstick yet. Had to be 16 she said. Ya right!

I think the difference in girls nowadays, being sexually active so early in life, is to know when that sixth sense starts itching in your head, and although they are flattered and simply crazy about the guy, something is a bit off with him.

Then they should be taught to take another look-see to evaluate how he might be a bit off in some way.

I think we need a national program, probably in unison with AMW, to teach and prepare these teen age girls of today how to buck disaster by using their sixth sense and not their raging hormones! I should write to John Walsh, as I think it is a great idea. There are too many girls as of late falling victim to fowl play - look how many we have heard of lately, and that is only a teeny drop in the bucket for all those who are killed or hurt badly by predators.


Scandi

 

[hndinglove]

>>no no no... the one article said he chased kara's sister, who ran and hid in the bathroom, and was about to kill the younger brother too, who begged him not to shoot, then the brother ran to the neighbor's house for help.

i think he was *this close* to just killing them all.<<

just to clarify, this was from a blog, not a published newspaper article.

 

[newtv]

scanci-my point is that u cant-parents all spend their time trying and this happens anyhow-its noone's fault but the person who did it-and nothing can change it now-the lessons learned will fall on mostly deaf ears..
and Katherine-I respectfully disagree-there is no comparing a 14 year old girl to an 18 year old boy-
had he been a 38 year old pervert she may have had a reaction..to her he was just a good looking guy she was attracted to and pply thot it was ever so amazing that he even liked her.
I would never want women on a jury of my peers-there is something so predictable about a womans scorn for the vulnerabilites of being a woman in this world.
She did nothing to cause this but live her life as many do-many who do the same learn a less painful lesson-she is never going to be thesame-thats enuf punishment-and she will be lucky to even survive it.

 

[scandi]

Hi my dear newtv,

Yes, as women we have expectations, in that we expect every other woman to heed them and follow suit. And our scorn can be sharp if the expectation is not lived up to. Actually new, I think that is a God given gift to women in general. We are the weaker sex physically, and I suppose men often think we are more emotional and do deny our God given right to change our moods and desires with the direction of the wind.

Our expectations as women are geared to the protection and high standards of our gender. It could be our saving grace someday when one of us is set upon by the opposite gender in some negative way. Whether in a business scenario or at the hands of a rapist. If we most often do what is expected of us as women, we will most likely survive and be OK.

Scandi

 

[Bobbisangel]

Is David's attorney saying that he wants the receipts saved so that any videos in the stores they stopped at can be gotten by court order to show that Kara wasn't kidnapped? If so, I hope someone notified the stores because they only keep the tapes for a short time...most of the time anyway...and then they are taped over.

I think the video tapes are a good idea. If Kara went willingly with David then that should be known. She may say she went out of fear that he would shoot her too if she didn't go but the video's will tell the tale. If she is laughing and cuddly in the store video's that will speak loud and clear.

I don't know what to think of her involvement. From what I've heard Kara would let David into her room in the wee hours of the night. Some of the stuff the kids were sending back and forth through emails was pretty jazzy too. It seems that both of these kids had two opposite sides...one they showed everyone else and one side they showed each other.

I wonder if Kara's dad had threatened to press charges if David came near Kara again? That is the reason Sarah Johnson murdered her parents. Her parents were going to turn her boyfriend in because she was underage and she blew them away. Sarah had also spent the previous night with her boyfriend and her dad went and hunted her up. Her trial was on CTV. She was 17 yrs at the time. I know that things can get pretty ugly between parents and kids when you try to step between a boyfriend and girlfriend but it doesn't usually amount to murder. Scary.

 

[newtv]

Hi my dear newtv,

Yes, as women we have expectations, in that we expect every other woman to heed them and follow suit. And our scorn can be sharp if the expectation is not lived up to. Actually new, I think that is a God given gift to women in general. We are the weaker sex physically, and I suppose men often think we are more emotional and do deny our God given right to change our moods and desires with the direction of the wind.

Our expectations as women are geared to the protection and high standards of our gender. It could be our saving grace someday when one of us is set upon by the opposite gender in some negative way. Whether in a business scenario or at the hands of a rapist. If we most often do what is expected of us as women, we will most likely survive and be OK.

Scandi

scandi-thats not my take on what women's scorn is all about-i am referring how it is directed at other women-not men.
women hurt women and think the worst of women who step outside a "norm"-this i will never stop fighting to stop-i wont succeed but to remain silent when its going on is just as bad as doing it myself-
women dont deserve the scorn they get from other women-and women dont seem to grasp that we are all imperfect-just in different ways..I would not want women on a jury if I was needing defending-u say they are the weaker sex-maybe physically-but women play mind games that can feel worse than being hit.
This attitude that girls and women should behave in a way that is designed not to trigger danger is simply scorn personified..most of us dont know right away that for sure this is danger-and in this case she wasnt with him for very long-if she had an inkling she was likely not yet sure what it was..it takes adults many moons to catch on -how can a 14 yr old have such awareness-if anything her immaturity is the issue-but she is her age not underdeveloped-she has along life ahead of her and i can only imagine the cruel things that she will hear from the riteous.

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<Its noones fault but his-and she could not have known anymore than anyone knows..especially at 14.>>

The problem with age 14 is most do not understand that adult behavior has adult consequences. That is why kids this age should not be having sex.

 

[mysteriew]

Unfortunately, the attorney for David is now implying that Kara was with David willingly. Says that surveillance tapes from convienence stores they visited will show that.
But of course he is charged with kidnapping, so this could be a ploy on the defense's part to get one of the charges dropped. Until I see evidence of Kara being involved in the murders though, I am going to look at it that as a kidnapped person- Kara was doing what she had to do to keep David on a level basis, so that she could survive.
After the murders, I am certain that David would have been very volatile, and that Kara would have been very frightened. There is a possibility that had she turned hostile toward him, that he may have retaliated toward her. Not to mention that kids that age when put under extreme pressure will try to ignore problems (murder, fear, guilt feelings) and will try to seek out normalacy by looking for "fun" things to do and "fun" ways to behave.