PA PA - Monroe Twp, 'Penny Doe', WhtFem 20-40, 246UFPA, near RR trestle, Rt leg broken, Jul'90

[Talisman]

Ladyhawk,

Thank you so much!!! You might just be the answer to some family's prayer!:blowkiss: With you on Penny's case she just might get her name back!!

Love,
Talisman

 

[NJshrink]

The reconstruction is very well done. While I'm not yet clear who she might be, I just finished reading the book "My Sister is Missing by Sherrie Gladden-Davis about her missing sister from Princeton Fran Gladden-Smith and Janice Hartman-Smith from Ohio. What I am exploring as a theory is the exceptional number of murdered young girls on the Ohio, PA, NJ, NY and Connecticut routes to all his properties and home bases during the years John Smith III lives in these areas 1990-1999! He owned a condo in Princeton Jct., NJ, a beach/weekend home in Milford Connecticut, and visited his parents often in Ohio. The injuries of many young women seem quite similar. Some are strangled, some aren't found easily, so it's hard to tell cause of death, and some are still missing. He has been convicted of his first wife's murder and implicated in the second(?), but there are many other Smith women and young girls either missing or dead too.

 

[Talisman]

The reconstruction is very well done. While I'm not yet clear who she might be, I just finished reading the book "My Sister is Missing by Sherrie Gladden-Davis about her missing sister from Princeton Fran Gladden-Smith and Janice Hartman-Smith from Ohio. What I am exploring as a theory is the exceptional number of murdered young girls on the Ohio, PA, NJ, NY and Connecticut routes to all his properties and home bases during the years John Smith III lives in these areas 1990-1999! He owned a condo in Princeton Jct., NJ, a beach/weekend home in Milford Connecticut, and visited his parents often in Ohio. The injuries of many young women seem quite similar. Some are strangled, some aren't found easily, so it's hard to tell cause of death, and some are still missing. He has been convicted of his first wife's murder and implicated in the second(?), but there are many other Smith women and young girls either missing or dead too.

There was a poster here (Richard- whom I have come to admire while reading here) who brought up the possibility of a serial killer in the Pennsylvania area awhile ago. Off hand I cannot remember the years that were in question, but maybe there is a connection to your cases? It is posted here somewhere ... I will look around.

 

[CCJD]

There was a poster here (Richard- whom I have come to admire while reading here) who brought up the possibility of a serial killer in the Pennsylvania area awhile ago. Off hand I cannot remember the years that were in question, but maybe there is a connection to your cases? It is posted here somewhere ... I will look around.

Link to a thread with a list of possible SK victims. The urls in MarylandMissing's post have the old .us extension, so you'd have to change it to .org to bring up the cases on Doe Network.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=918327#post918327

 

[ladyhawk]

Talisman

Ok here is an idea! What if Penny was a band groupie and was either with one of the bands members or just a runaway following the bands. That could have put her in Clarion County area at that time when the Music Alley Concert was in town. This would also open up the possiblity of her coming there from anywhere, even as far as California.

Ladyhawk

 

[Talisman]

ladyhawk,


Great thinking!! I never thought of that. See? Penny needs you on her case. (mee,too!)

Lawyers, Guns and Money-- was a band out of Northwestern, Pa.

The Stand-- was from West Virginia.

B.E.Taylor-- had a few hits back in the day, so they were probably the big name band the day of the concert at Music Alley.

Cleveland,-- not sure, but I'm assuming they are from Cleveland.

Down to the Wire--I have no idea who they are.

Gives us an avenue to go down anyway. I will try to check into some of the bands info and stuff.

Thanks ladyhawk!!

Talisman

 

[DBinMA]

I follow a band that is based 3000 miles away from me. It may be less important where the band is from then where they had been recently. I certainly think if she was a rabid fan that the band would recognize here. My band wouldn't necessarily know my name but they could tell you where I was from (and that I have their logo tattooed on my ankle LOL). I've followed them for 15 yrs.

 

[Talisman]

I follow a band that is based 3000 miles away from me. It may be less important where the band is from then where they had been recently. I certainly think if she was a rabid fan that the band would recognize here. My band wouldn't necessarily know my name but they could tell you where I was from (and that I have their logo tattooed on my ankle LOL). I've followed them for 15 yrs.

You are probably right.

From what I could find, B. E. Taylor was the biggest 'name' of the groups that played that day.

The band Clevelend (I misspelled it in earlier post) was mostly a cover band. They did end up with a claim to fame, though. They have a plaque dedicated to them in the Rock Hall of Fame : http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=92646&catid=45.

I can't seem to find anything on Down To the Wire or The Stand.
Lawyers, Guns and Money were mostly made up of locals. They were actually pretty good and popular around Northwest Pa.

I have found a website that one of the ex-members Of Lawyers, Guns and Money were on talking about the different bands he was in. What the heck, maybe I'll send him info about Penny Doe and see if by some small chance he remembers her. Odds are slim but it can't hurt.

 

[ladyhawk]

Hi Talisman

I checked out some of the bands and they have video of Lawyer, Guns and Money on You Tube. Wish we could find someone that taped a video of Music Alley.
I also posted on a board for OK to see if we could find out some more info on Meredith.
I saw on another board that Alicia's brother posted about his sister in March of 2008.

Ladyhawk
:grouphug:

 

[ladyhawk]

Just received an email someone that knew Meredith (I think she looks so much like Penny!) I'm going to send him a link to this thread.
:woohoo:
Ladyhawk

 

[whammo77]

Just received an email someone that knew Meredith (I think she looks so much like Penny!) I'm going to send him a link to this thread.
:woohoo:
Ladyhawk

ladyhawke directed me to this post after I contacted her. I will share everything with you that I have with her.... I'll cut and paste everything I have emailed her so far......

Hi, just by happenstance I saw a picture of a young girl that is missing that looks astonishingly like a girl my daughter knows, so I did a search for her only to find she does look a lot like my daughter's friend, but it is not her. While on the site, I came across an article about Meredith. After that I started doing a little bit if searching because I really don't remember her disappearing.

I went to school with her in the 80's, and one of my friends was boyfriend/girlfriend with her around 1984 or 1985. Shortly thereafter she set her eyes on me, but I wasn't interested but we stayed friends until I moved on to the high school. I don't really remember much of her after that. To be honest, I'm not sure if she went on to the same high school I went to, or if she went to another local high school. She was a grade behind me, so I don't honestly know. I honestly don't even remember her disappearing, which makes me think that maybe she went to one of the other local high schools instead of going to the same one I went to. Of course tho, that WAS almost 20 years ago so I might have just forgotten it.

As far as what I remember of her, she was very bubbly and out going. She was also a little "adventurous", among other things meaning she was cool with dating black guys (my friend she was boyfriend/girlfriend with was black) when that was still considered a very big social no-no (Especially in little podunk towns like Midwest City, OK). I don't remember her as being a kid that ran away a lot (or at all), but as I said, we lost touch after about 1985, so anything could have taken place across the next 3 years, and of course you don't always know everything that goes on in a person's home.....

To be honest, the re-creation looks nothing like the Meredith I knew. Of course, notwithstanding that those re-creations can be wrong as hell at times since they're more a guess than anything. But the thing is, if you see a picture of a friend (or even a drawing or a painting that's not totally accurate) or even an old friend you haven't seen in an while you can say "oh sure, that's Jane" or whomever. For example: I happened to run across a picture of another girl I knew in HS on the net and you talk about CHANGED! WOW! But even so, and even though I haven't seen her in 19 years, I knew who it was instantly before I even caught her name. She looks ALOT different now than she did when we were teenagers (back then she was the meaning of ugly duckling; red hair, bottle glasses, frizzy hair, terrible dress.... but now, not too darn shabby...). Despite that, I knew it was her. But in this case, with the re-creation, I just don't see any resemblance to the person I knew. But then again, the age progression they did on Meredith looks nothing like her either.

I dunno, I wouldn't say with 100% certainty that it is not her, but I would say with 98% certainty that it is not. So, if the re-creation is at all right, I just don't think it would be her.

On the other hand, I found it very odd that 2 girls with the last name of Medina would disappear the exact same year, within about 2 weeks of each other, both of them hispanic, both teenagers, etc. What are the chances??? Has anyone checked to see if these 2 were related, and maybe if they ran away together? Has anyone even discussed that possibility???

The sad thing is, it's very rare that anyone disappears for this long a time and is found living. While I can imagine a kid running away, because kids are stupid, I can't imagine someone running away, and after 19 years not having grown up and realized they made a mistake, or not having called a relative or a friend by now (if they are still alive). So, I don't see a resemblance to the re-creation, but I would lay odds that she is deceased, which is sad.

The last reason I didn't think that this "Penny" person would be Meridith is that Meridith was short and skinny. This "Penny" person was short but wearing size 9 jeans, suggestive of someone who would weigh in excess of 130 or 140 pounds (certainly not "skinny" for 5'1"), and Meredith, as the caption says, was only around 110 lbs. If it IS her, she had to be eating quite well for the year after she went missing, whether she had been kidnapped OR if she was a runaway.... in either case, it doesn't make sense that she'd put on 30 lbs.... (and shrink an inch or 2)

So, Penny was 5'1" to 5'2" and 140 lbs + (more than likely), and Meredith was 5'3" and 110 lbs. Combine that with the fact that the re-creation looks nothing like her, naaaaa, it isn't Meredith. Which leaves (slim) hope.......

I know everyone was really thinking that was her.... but I honestly don't believe it is. I'd bet everything I own on it. Plus, they specifically called Penny out as being White, while Meredith was unmistakingly Hispanic.

I am intrigued by all this tho. I'm equally intrigued by the fact I don't remember it. There was another girl who disappeared from our school a few years earlier (who was later found and so was the person who kidnapped and killed her) and I remember her disappearance, as well as her name, like it was yesterday, although I never personally knew her. But with Meredith, I knew her, but don't remember ber disappearance. How strange.

I'm even more intrigued, however, that 2 girls with the last name Medina disappeared within 2 weeks of each other. The odds HAVE to be astronomical for that (I checked to see if any other Medina's have disappeared just to see what the odds are, and I found 3 since 1989). I'd really like to know if anyone has checked to see if there was any relation between Meredith and the other Medina girl????

Well, I hope I've been of some help. If I think of anything else, I'll post it. (The only other thing I can think of is that Meredith had what I thought to be exceptionally great handwriting. I was looking where she had written in my yearbook in 1985... it is by far the prettiest writing in the book..... by far better than I would expect of most 7th grade girls.... )


Cheers!

Whammo

 

[whammo77]

FYI: I emailed one of my ex girlfriends from back in the day who was friends with Meredith. If/when I hear anything back from her I will post it here for you.

Cheers!

Whammo

 

[Talisman]

whammo77,

Thank you so much for all of the information on Meredith. I hope she is found someday.




((((ladyhawk)))) - thank you so much!

 

[whammo77]

whammo77,

Thank you so much for all of the information on Meredith. I hope she is found someday.




((((ladyhawk)))) - thank you so much!

You are welcome. I heard from my ex-girlfriend from way back when. She doesn't rmember Meredith going missing either and they were good buds in Junior High. I 've also talked to a couple of other people from our school, and they don't remember it either, which makes me think she must have attended a different HS. Something like that would not be so easily forgotten, I wouldn't think, had she have been at our school..... Surely ONE of us would remember it.....

Did anyone ponder the idea about the 2 Medina's going missing within 2 weeks of each other???? I STILL think that seems odd and very unlikely.....

 

[Blackwatch]

This unidentified female's case hasn't received much publicity at all. Maybe because it happened in such a rural area and it was almost 20 years ago.
Clarion University of Pennsylvania is located there, but it is still a very rural area. The Clarion River doesn't run through the town but winds around just on the outskirts of Clarion. A university student bringing the victim there is a possibility.
The fact that a letter was sent to LE concerning the victim means that someone out there knows something.

I have half a notion to make up copies of her flyer and post them around the area when I make my trip to their library. There is a mall in Clarion, a public library, a college, a main street with shops .... sure there are many places to put flyers. Why not get the locals thinking about this case? Maybe LE will end up receiving another letter or something.

I just want this 'Penny Doe' to have her name back. She was somebody's daughter.

Is the letter available anywhere for reading?

 

[kkirk]

hi,
I live in clarion, and remember when the clarion news did a article on "Penny"
It was'nt much of an article, probably just a reminder of the case..
anyway, I was wondering if the police ever talked to the owners of the camps in the area she was found?, we do get alot of campers in this area around that time of year..
maybe her parents owned one of them?
just a thought...
also, why did'nt the police ever release any of the letter they received?
maybe somebody would recognize the writer or penny herself..
if there is anything i can help with let me know..I work at the clarion mall, and live in town..
kathy

 

[OilPainter]

Maybe I skipped over this but could the pennies in each pocket simply be there because she had them there? Or did I miss something that points to the killer putting them there?

 

[kkirk]

maybe the killer put them there, have you ever noticed that if you are left handed your change is in your left pocket, and visa versa??
is there any similar cases of a penny in each pocket?
could it be a superstition?, maybe that would help with her ethnicity?
what do you think?

kathy

 

[ladyhawk]

I never thought about the camps in the area! Great Thought!

ladyhawk

:clap:

 

[kkirk]

I'll go to the court house and check out the area maps, and ask around if and when there were any camps (and who owned them) around that time.
we get a lot of ohio residents.
we also get a lot of transients off of I80,
my thought is that who would let their young daughter go to Music alley...
I've heard that they were pretty roudy...
if i only knew what was in that letter to the le...
kathy