GUILTY PA - Nalani Johnson, 2, Penn Hills Boro, Allegheny County, 31 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #2

[steeltowngirl]

Death from antifreeze poisoning could take up to ~72 hours.
Also most antifreeze manufacturers today put in an additive which makes it taste very bitter. Good for the animals and babies who used to drink it due to its sweet taste.

Would it take 72 hours to be fatal to a 2 year old?

 

[rkendmar]

Would it take 72 hours to be fatal to a 2 year old?

It would most likely depend on the amount ingested.
The person affected would go into renal failure and death would likely be due to acute renal failure.
It's not a quick death.

 

[Ashley74]

Not saying this is what happened here..but found some info pertaining to hot car deaths.

Hot car deaths: More than 36 kids die in hot cars every year - CNN

Children are especially at risk because of their biology

Kids aren't built for heat: Children's body temperatures rise 3-5 times faster than adults.

Seconds count: The temperature of a car can climb 20 degrees in 20 minutes.

It doesn't have to be hot: Heatstroke can occur in the shade, with the windows down, and even at temperatures as low as 57 degrees.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It would most likely depend on the amount ingested.
The person affected would go into renal failure and death would likely be due to acute renal failure.
It's not a quick death.

Ugh. Would it look like dehydration?

 

[Steelslady]

I just can't come up with a scenario where this baby died so quickly without signs of trauma It seems like that monster did not have much time to drive straight to the park and back...stopping at the sheetz as well.....

My thoughts exactly. From what I understand, the distance that she had to walk from her parked car to the spot she left Nalani at is a half of a mile.

Now, I consider myself a strong woman, but carrying a child in a car seat would be no easy feat for a half of a mile. The time line is just too tight for me. The average person in decent shape walks a mile in 15 minutes- great shape, fast pace- 8-10 minutes. So half of a mile, carrying a car seat with a deceased child in it- I would say that would add some time to a person who is in great shape, so we'll just say for the sake of it, she walked it in 8 minutes. Placed her. Walked or jogged back.

Now, here is where my confusion comes in. The times of the events is just too tight for this to all happen and where her phone pinged. Again, I put her walking time as someone in great shape, and we don't know if she is or isn't physically. Many of us here are mothers, grandmothers, aunts, etc. We have carried children in our arms. Imagine carrying that child in a car seat- walking in a park, without the aid of a stroller or a carriage? That would cause some delay and fatigue for a normal person.

I am not saying that she didn't do this, but she must have had some high adrenaline rush to do all that she did in such a tight time lime. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this all unfolds. Just odd.

 

[rkendmar]

Ugh. Would it look like dehydration?

No. There would be excess fluid in the body because the kidneys would not be working.

 

[TristanP]

My thoughts exactly. From what I understand, the distance that she had to walk from her parked car to the spot she left Nalani at is a half of a mile.

Now, I consider myself a strong woman, but carrying a child in a car seat would be no easy feat for a half of a mile. The time line is just too tight for me. The average person in decent shape walks a mile in 15 minutes- great shape, fast pace- 8-10 minutes. So half of a mile, carrying a car seat with a deceased child in it- I would say that would add some time to a person who is in great shape, so we'll just say for the sake of it, she walked it in 8 minutes. Placed her. Walked or jogged back.

Now, here is where my confusion comes in. The times of the events is just too tight for this to all happen and where her phone pinged. Again, I put her walking time as someone in great shape, and we don't know if she is or isn't physically. Many of us here are mothers, grandmothers, aunts, etc. We have carried children in our arms. Imagine carrying that child in a car seat- walking in a park, without the aid of a stroller or a carriage? That would cause some delay and fatigue for a normal person.

I am not saying that she didn't do this, but she must have had some high adrenaline rush to do all that she did in such a tight time lime. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this all unfolds. Just odd.

I’m pretty sure all this talk from the DA isn’t the whole truth. There’s still too much inconsistency here.

 

[Steelslady]

No. There would be excess fluid in the body because the kidneys would not be working.

Wouldn't that cause her to have a bloated appearance? When I had a loved one in renal failure, their face, arms, etc were all swollen.

 

[rkendmar]

Wouldn't that cause her to have a bloated appearance? When I had a loved one in renal failure, their face, arms, etc were all swollen.

Yes.

 

[Steelslady]

I’m pretty sure all this talk from the DA isn’t the whole truth. There’s still too much inconsistency here.

Agree. Some things are just not adding up to me. I just feel like she had to have had help, or that Nalani was placed there earlier. I don't know, it's just bothering me.

Driving off, going to Sheetz but yet LE said that they can't confirm that Nalani was in the back of the car. She didn't appear to be in any hurry when she was at Sheetz- she looked like any other customer standing in line to purchase something. No one reported seeing a child in the back seat by them self, either sleeping or crying. If she did put Nalani in the trunk before going to Sheetz, she had to have pulled over somewhere first to do so, before she got to Sheetz. If a toddler was alive at the time, they would no doubt be awake and screaming inside the trunk- most toddlers are afraid of the dark. Someone would have heard her muffled crying, if she was still alive then. Plus, it would have been too risky to stop at a place like that.

Then, this intrigued me- I'd like to know more about this:

At Bryant and Clay drives in Penn Hills, where the group had been visiting an acquaintance, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rouse got out to take Nalani from her car seat. Suddenly, Ms. Nancy drove off, the superintendent said.

Missing toddler's body found in Indiana County park

I don't remember reading before this that there were visiting an acquaintance, does anyone else? Did this person witness anything?

 

[cass523]

Agree. Some things are just not adding up to me. I just feel like she had to have had help, or that Nalani was placed there earlier. I don't know, it's just bothering me.

Driving off, going to Sheetz but yet LE said that they can't confirm that Nalani was in the back of the car. She didn't appear to be in any hurry when she was at Sheetz- she looked like any other customer standing in line to purchase something. No one reported seeing a child in the back seat by them self, either sleeping or crying. If she did put Nalani in the trunk before going to Sheetz, she had to have pulled over somewhere first to do so, before she got to Sheetz. If a toddler was alive at the time, they would no doubt be awake and screaming inside the trunk- most toddlers are afraid of the dark. Someone would have heard her muffled crying, if she was still alive then. Plus, it would have been too risky to stop at a place like that.

Then, this intrigued me- I'd like to know more about this:

At Bryant and Clay drives in Penn Hills, where the group had been visiting an acquaintance, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rouse got out to take Nalani from her car seat. Suddenly, Ms. Nancy drove off, the superintendent said.

Missing toddler's body found in Indiana County park

I don't remember reading before this that there were visiting an acquaintance, does anyone else? Did this person witness anything?

I understood it as they were on there way to visit an acquaintance. ?
Is that what is written in the news article? I can't read it. I read too many articles and now need to pay. So I may be wrong about leaving someone's home. I remember it as they were at another park and left to go visit someone around where they got out of the car and SN took off.

 

[rkendmar]

I’m pretty sure all this talk from the DA isn’t the whole truth. There’s still too much inconsistency here.

The DA is looking at this case, which he will be prosecuting, from a legal point of view.
The forensic ME and coroner are looking at it from a purely scientific view as they seek to precisely determine the exact cause(s) of death and hopefully a general time range of her death.
The DA tried to 'jump the gun' after the autopsy and lab work; the ME and coroner pushed back and said no COD until the toxicology report comes back.

 

[MsMarple]

Yeah, this is a stumper and very frustrating. All we have to go on right now is what Zappala and other "sources" have stated so we sure don't have the whole story yet.

IMO it's possible the ME has other information and is keeping his cards close to the vest. I've read that sometimes injuries aren't apparent right away as the decomposition process can cause changes in tissues. Sometimes bruising can show up later and conversely sometimes what initially appears to be trauma can be attributed to postmortem changes. So here we sit, waiting.

But until fresh information is released it seems (IMO) that the most logical scenario is a common one and to me that would be some sort of suffocation. For one thing where would Nancy have gotten a poison/drug in such a short period? And if she did it would take time to act so if Nalani was dead by the time Nancy placed her in the park it would be a very tight timeline.

I dunno, anything is possible I suppose. All I know is that it sure looks like Nancy was hell bent on "punishing" Nalani's dad for some imagined slight or show of disrespect that came out of the argument. And IMO it doesn't mean Nancy is mentally ill or if she is then it just shows that she could commit an intentional act of violence on an innocent little girl out of rage or spite. The fact that she lied to LE says to me that she knew full well what she was doing. Disgusting. MOO.

 

[mjp1228]

I just can't come up with a scenario where this baby died so quickly without signs of trauma It seems like that monster did not have much time to drive straight to the park and back...stopping at the sheetz as well.....

I would think she could have easily drugged her with something she either already had in her purse or bought in Sheetz and gave it to her in a drink. Or she could have put a pillow or blanket over her face and smother her. In either of these scenarios, the child might just look as is she was sleeping. RIP sweet child.

 

[Steelslady]

I understood it as they were on there way to visit an acquaintance. ?
Is that what is written in the news article? I can't read it. I read too many articles and now need to pay. So I may be wrong about leaving someone's home. I remember it as they were at another park and left to go visit someone around where they got out of the car and SN took off.

Yes, that was written in the article. That's why I am wondering if that information is important, seeing that it was information given to the press somehow. Who did they visit? Did they see anything? Was Nalani alive then? Before Nalani was placed in the park, who saw her last, besides the three of them?

 

[Steelslady]

I would think she could have easily drugged her with something she either already had in her purse or bought in Sheetz and gave it to her in a drink. Or she could have put a pillow or blanket over her face and smother her. In either of these scenarios, the child might just look as is she was sleeping. RIP sweet child.

But when would she have had the time to do this? Where would she have smothered her? Obviously not at the Sheetz parking lot! Besides, LE can't confirm Nalani was in the back seat when she went to Sheetz.

 

[CCJD]

Then, this intrigued me- I'd like to know more about this:

At Bryant and Clay drives in Penn Hills, where the group had been visiting an acquaintance, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rouse got out to take Nalani from her car seat. Suddenly, Ms. Nancy drove off, the superintendent said.

Missing toddler's body found in Indiana County park

I don't remember reading before this that there were visiting an acquaintance, does anyone else? Did this person witness anything?

Allegheny County Police Superintendent Coleman McDonough held a news conference Tuesday afternoon with FBI Pittsburgh officials and 2-year-old Nalani Johnson’s grandmother.

At the 14:15 mark, someone asked McDonough if there was a reason they had stopped at Bryant & Clay Roads. McDonough said they were "stopping at the home of an aquaintance" and had a legitimate reason for being there.
Allegheny Co. Police: Missing Girl’s Father, Kidnapping Suspect Romantically Linked

 

[mjp1228]

But when would she have had the time to do this? Where would she have smothered her? Obviously not at the Sheetz parking lot! Besides, LE can't confirm Nalani was in the back seat when she went to Sheetz.

Hate being so blunt, but she was working with a small child. She could have leaned over the car seat and done it as she was getting her out. It wouldn’t take much time or effort with such a small child, IMO. A few minutes? So sad and senseless. This is only a suggestion of how it could have been done with no obvious signs of trauma left. MOO.

 

[Longtime_lurker2019]

Who are you talking about?

From their other posts, where they say they can't sleuth mom but to PM them, its clear they are insinuating that mom deserves less of our empathy based on her past.

I have spent all day with a picture of Nalani in my head. Sweet, innocent child taken entirely too soon. I cannot imagine here parents grief. May they receive mercy as surely they need it.

 

[mjp1228]

Yeah, this is a stumper and very frustrating. All we have to go on right now is what Zappala and other "sources" have stated so we sure don't have the whole story yet.

IMO it's possible the ME has other information and is keeping his cards close to the vest. I've read that sometimes injuries aren't apparent right away as the decomposition process can cause changes in tissues. Sometimes bruising can show up later and conversely sometimes what initially appears to be trauma can be attributed to postmortem changes. So here we sit, waiting.

But until fresh information is released it seems (IMO) that the most logical scenario is a common one and to me that would be some sort of suffocation. For one thing where would Nancy have gotten a poison/drug in such a short period? And if she did it would take time to act so if Nalani was dead by the time Nancy placed her in the park it would be a very tight timeline.

I dunno, anything is possible I suppose. All I know is that it sure looks like Nancy was hell bent on "punishing" Nalani's dad for some imagined slight or show of disrespect that came out of the argument. And IMO it doesn't mean Nancy is mentally ill or if she is then it just shows that she could commit an intentional act of violence on an innocent little girl out of rage or spite. The fact that she lied to LE says to me that she knew full well what she was doing. Disgusting. MOO.

You make some very good points. I agree she was punishing dad - trigger seemed to be that argument. All senseless reasons. So sad.