Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[alucardsdream]

I think they confirmed the mother's identity with DNA before they confirmed the father's, and it seems to me that JT was approached as they were trying to confirm the father's DNA. I could be totally wrong, of course, but that was my assumption from reading the interview with JT. It sounds like they located JAZ's two maternal siblings earlier after they obtained birth records and used their DNA to confirm the identity of his mother.

 

[loveplace]

I think they confirmed the mother's identity with DNA before they confirmed the father's, and it seems to me that JT was approached as they were trying to confirm the father's DNA. I could be totally wrong, of course, but that was my assumption from reading the interview with JT. It sounds like the located JAZ's two maternal siblings earlier after they obtained birth records and used their DNA to confirm the identity of his mother.

That is a good read of things as well, IMOO. I can't wait to see what the answers end up being.

 

[fred&edna]

2002 Court TV report CNN

CNN.com - Tossed away: The boy in the box - Dec. 5, 2002

Info related to "M"

At issue is whether Martha, who has a history of mental problems, could have fabricated the story. Her psychiatrist claimed to have first heard the tale in 1989, but protected her client's privacy until she chose to come forward. No notes of that original discussion exist, says Augustine.

"If we had notes, that would be a different story," he said. "If we could just prove one thing about it, we'd have it solved. And if we could just disprove one thing, we'd throw her tip in the garbage."

To corroborate her story, Augustine is arranging to search the Philadelphia house where she used to live. Was the drain in the basement where she said it was, for example, and did houses in that area have coal bins as she described? But these minor details will not seal a case that, for Augustine, has become a life's work.

"I want to get this case to be sewn up as if the mother was still alive and we got an arrest warrant and a conviction in court," he said. And he plans to continue speaking with Martha, hoping she'll provide more details that can be corroborated.

 

[LeBlack]

Who ever killed Joseph is probably long gone. No justice.

MOO, I have to believe in justice, whether in the form of karma or in an afterlife of some form.

 

[txsleuth70]

Thank you for posting this! I've been using Ancestry since I was in college nearly 20 years ago, and I don't think people who don't do genealogy realize that anyone can post a family tree without any documentation. Anyone could go on there right now and create a tree around Joseph, naming completely random people as his parents, and some people would accept it as fact. It is truly scary to see how many people have jumped to the conclusion that they are certain who Joseph's parents are just because they found one male with a similar name.

This is why it's important to build trees using documents! Not narratives or trees someone else has created - can contain so many mistakes.Documents also need to be cross-referenced.

 

[Daphne1972]

2002 Court TV report CNN

CNN.com - Tossed away: The boy in the box - Dec. 5, 2002

Info related to "M"

At issue is whether Martha, who has a history of mental problems, could have fabricated the story. Her psychiatrist claimed to have first heard the tale in 1989, but protected her client's privacy until she chose to come forward. No notes of that original discussion exist, says Augustine.

"If we had notes, that would be a different story," he said. "If we could just prove one thing about it, we'd have it solved. And if we could just disprove one thing, we'd throw her tip in the garbage."

To corroborate her story, Augustine is arranging to search the Philadelphia house where she used to live. Was the drain in the basement where she said it was, for example, and did houses in that area have coal bins as she described? But these minor details will not seal a case that, for Augustine, has become a life's work.

"I want to get this case to be sewn up as if the mother was still alive and we got an arrest warrant and a conviction in court," he said. And he plans to continue speaking with Martha, hoping she'll provide more details that can be corroborated.

So what came out of inspecting that house??

 

[txsleuth70]

This is why it's important to build trees using documents! Not narratives or trees someone else has created - can contain so many mistakes.Documents also need to be cross-referenced.

I've probably built out 100 trees over the years, and I'm always going back in to clarify dates, correct relationships/names, etc. People and documents often don't show up right away. I think the information is probably algorithm-related somehow. I'll work on someone vigorously for weeks with nothing new...then out of the blue 10 'hints' will show up!

 

[Ontario Mom]

That's fair. Frankly, if I were the family, I think I would just make a public statement and lay it out. Especially if Joseph wasn't raised by his bio parents. I wouldn't want the public speculating that one of my grandparents was a monster.

I'm wondering if public shame (real or imagined) is the reason for the silence? Attitudes in the 50's were much different than they are now, but some them older folks still feel exactly the same way.

Here's a fun true story from one of the geneaology sites: a few years ago I did the spit in the tube test and sent it in. I ticked the box that allows other users to connect if it turns out we're related. It comes back, tells me I'm nearly half Scottish and the other half a mix of all sorts of cool things. Very exciting, all good fun. Mostly stuff I already knew. Until... two summers ago, I got a message on the site. "Hi, you don't know me but, I think we're related". The DNA match, however they figure it, essentially said we're siblings, which threw us both for a loop. The other user was using an avatar so he sent me his actual pic. Holy cow, I said outloud when I sat here and stared at picture of myself in boy version, lol.

Long story short, he knew his younger brother's dad wasn't his dad, but his mother and his aunt always said things like "well you know how was in those days, let's just not worry about all that" whenever he'd ask questions (and this was just the early 60's). They didn't want the shame of admitting an unwed pregnancy. Eventually he stopped asking and just didn't really care. Until he also did the spit tube test and I showed up. Turns out, we are in fact half-siblings, same dad, happened to be in the Navy at the time and had women in every port, as the old cliche goes. Or, at least 2 of them. I'm half expecting another one of those messages one day "hi, I think we might be related" from someone else in a US Navy town.

 

[steff13]

So what came out of inspecting that house??

"Unfortunately, six months later, having left "no stone unturned" in their relentless search for corroborating evidence, the investigators came up empty. Not a single one of "M's" allegations could be substantiated. Also, a search for trace evidence in the basement of the Lower Merion home where the boy allegedly resided turned up nothing."

ETA: That could of course be because of the time that had lapsed, or it could be because the evidence never existed. We may never know.

 

[BananaBreaderz]

Was he circumcised? They didn’t say that, did they?

Yes, he was.

 

[LeBlack]

The "America's Unknown Child" website has details of the medical exam. It's says this:

Examination of the boy's gastrointestinal tract indicated that he had not eaten for two or three hours before his death.

Case Summary

There's a lot of detailed info there, including medical examiner's photos that are quite shocking.

Thank you for this! The sculptor that sculpted the John List bust, sculpted a bust of what the father MAY look like.

Lots of info I had not seen.

THANK you!

 

[Astrach99]

We can't determine where Joseph falls in the birth order, because they looked for birth certificates for 1944-1956 -- that could mean that one of the siblings was born in 1944 and they wanted to make sure they included it in the sample, or it could be that they chose a larger span of years just in case Joseph was somehow older than he was thought to be at death. We can't really glean any information from it, not without seeing the birth certificates ourselves, other than that he definitely has (at least) two siblings on his maternal side.

It could be that they chose the years 1944-1956 as they figured out who Joseph's mother was via DNA so they knew her age and they wanted to include all of her possible childbearing years prior to Joseph's death.

 

[LeBlack]

I wish I could get hands on the autopsy report. Does anyone know if it's out there somewhere?

M said the boy was beaten after throwing up some baked beans. Some things I've read say the coroner did find remnants of baked beans in his stomach, but this info was held back from the public. Other sources say his stomach was empty. Moo

"had not eaten in within 3 hours" = beans would likely be in the small intestine in that time frame (if that's what he had eaten) The skins wouldn't have been completely digested.

IMO

 

[steff13]

"had not eaten in within 3 hours" = beans would likely be in the small intestine in that time frame (if that's what he had eaten) The skins wouldn't have been completely digested.

IMO

They said there was no food in his gastrointestinal system, so I think it's a fair assumption that he hadn't eaten in a few hours prior to his death.

 

[BananaBreaderz]

How do we know they are denying it?

Reporter said so at the press conference. Family must have reached out to someone in the press before the conf to deny it.

 

[Megnut]

It's also possible that, when Joseph's mother named his father, she didn't know him altogether well, guessing at his name/spelling.

It's entirely possible IMO Joseph's father was unaware of the pregnancy or birth.

JMO

 

[katcat]

I think they confirmed the mother's identity with DNA before they confirmed the father's, and it seems to me that JT was approached as they were trying to confirm the father's DNA. I could be totally wrong, of course, but that was my assumption from reading the interview with JT. It sounds like they located JAZ's two maternal siblings earlier after they obtained birth records and used their DNA to confirm the identity of his mother.

I am not sure of the timeline either but I think it's relevant to mention that Dr. Fitzpatrick said that it took 2.5 years to produce a viable sample from the 2019 exhumation. JT stated that he was contacted by Misty Gillis last year.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Would the church have the attendance records for the baptism?

I'm not sure there would be a list of attendees, but the parent(s) would named as well as at least one godparent. The godparent(s) would be an interesting find as that could very well be someone who cared for Joseph if something happened to his bio parents (assuming he stayed living with at least one bio parent for some time).

 

[loveplace]

I'm not sure there would be a list of attendees, but the parent(s) would named as well as at least one godparent. The godparent(s) would be an interesting find as that could very well be someone who cared for Joseph if something happened to his bio parents (assuming he stayed living with at least one bio parent for some time).

This is true. Although do all catholic baptisms happen in church necessarily?

 

[renalp]

I thought the good Samaritan reported that he saw a woman and a teenage boy near the site.

He did. It's been speculated that the witness could have misidentified "M," who was said to be tall and athletically built, with short hair.