Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

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  • #741
I am not sure of the timeline either but I think it's relevant to mention that Dr. Fitzpatrick said that it took 2.5 years to produce a viable sample from the 2019 exhumation. JT stated that he was contacted by Misty Gillis last year.
Makes sense. Another big reason I believe “Zarelli” comes from the father is that the father’s family felt the next to reach out to a member of the media to deny a familial relationship. If “Zarelli” came from the mother’s side, there’s absolutely no reason for a member of the father’s side to deny anything. No one would have a clue who he is. They knew “Zarelli” would lead to their dad.
 
  • #742
This is true. Although do all catholic baptisms happen in church necessarily?
Not always. It is the norm, but exceptions are made if the baby's life is in danger for example. A legitimate baptism can take place anywhere really, but the parish church would most often be notified so a certificate of baptism could be issued and a record made in the church files. A child who later wanted to be confirmed or receive first communion would need proof of their baptism, so records were seen as pretty important. It's actually still this way today.
 
  • #743
This is true. Although do all catholic baptisms happen in church necessarily?
In my experience, the only baptisms that have taken place outside of the church were those of very sick children in the hospital. Saying that, my experiences are of 21st century Scotland, not Philadelphia in the 1950s.
 
  • #744
"had not eaten in within 3 hours" = beans would likely be in the small intestine in that time frame (if that's what he had eaten) The skins wouldn't have been completely digested.

IMO
Right. I think I was remembering the "brown substance" in the esophagus and remembered incorrectly.
 
  • #745
Would the church have the attendance records for the baptism?
Possibly. However, children of unwed mothers (or even mixed-race children) were sometimes baptized outside of the parish where the mother resided.
 
  • #746
Not always. It is the norm, but exceptions are made if the baby's life is in danger for example. A legitimate baptism can take place anywhere really, but the parish church would most often be notified so a certificate of baptism could be issued and a record made in the church files. A child who later wanted to be confirmed or receive first communion would need proof of their baptism, so records were seen as pretty important. It's actually still this way today.
Thank you for the background. My mother was a lapsed catholic and I recall her mentioning it in the past as she was an RN who worked with infants. Your refresher meshes with what she said as well. I think maybe a hidden child or one transferred outside of record keeping might be baptised but more likely to not be recorded, though I agree most church records are often more complete and accurate than birth records in genealogy.
 
  • #747
While I'm happy that Joseph has his identity back, it's heartbreaking to think about what this poor child suffered in his short life. The fact that no one reported him missing says a lot too - and really makes me suspect that his killer was someone who was supposed to care for him. I'm sure LE will release some new information once they know more.

RIP Joseph
My thoughts exactly.
 
  • #748
It's also possible that, when Joseph's mother named his father, she didn't know him altogether well, guessing at his name/spelling.

It's entirely possible IMO Joseph's father was unaware of the pregnancy or birth.

JMO
I think there’s a good possibility this is the case. I don’t know if we’ll ever truly know what he knew.

<modsnip: sleuthing family is off limits>
 
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  • #749
In my experience, the only baptisms that have taken place outside of the church were those of very sick children in the hospital. Saying that, my experiences are of 21st century Scotland, not Philadelphia in the 1950s.
My cousin was baptized at home due to her older brother having measles. No one was very sick, but just plain old contagious.
We're Armenian, so I think that 40 day thing is taken very literally.
 
  • #750
or even for a pregnancy to occur while married but with a different man while the husband is overseas perhaps?
Yep…didn’t think of that.
 
  • #751
Martha’s story doesn’t date to 2002 (when she met with detectives). It goes back to at least 1989, according to her psychiatrist. And it’s not just the baked beans and water; there also the Good Samaritan who recalled a woman and child. CNN.com - Tossed away: The boy in the box - Dec. 5, 2002

Martha had several academic degrees and worked as a professor and a scientist.

I wish we knew more about the psychiatrist. Did she actually not have those notes, or did she choose to withhold them from LE? (Recall that Martha claimed that her mother sexually/physically abused both her and Jonathan). There was no court order to produce anything, to my knowledge.
 
  • #752
Martha’s story doesn’t date to 2002 (when she met with detectives). It goes back to at least 1989, according to her psychiatrist. And it’s not just the baked beans and water; there also the Good Samaritan who recalled a woman and child. CNN.com - Tossed away: The boy in the box - Dec. 5, 2002

Martha had several academic degrees and worked as a professor and a scientist.

I wish we knew more about the psychiatrist. Did she actually not have those notes, or did she choose to withhold them from LE? (Recall that Martha claimed that her mother sexually/physically abused both her and Jonathan). There was no court order to produce anything, to my knowledge.
The woman and the child were reported in the media way back in the beginning.

Philadelphia Inquirer: 02/28/57

Couple Sought in Boy's Murder

Pair Seen Unloading Car Trunk
 
  • #753
I was reading about approved cases of gentian violet as a diagnostic dye for eye conditions. It stays in the eye for only a few hours. And gentian violet is one heck of a dye. It is available OTC. It's been around forever and has been a home remedy for all sorts of stuff. Just because it is currently approved for diagnosis doesn't mean people didn't use it for who knows what back then. Google gentian violet and you will see a million uses.
https://www.amazon.com/Humco-Gentian-Violet/dp/B000QTG3ME/ref=psdc_3760941_t1_B0073X5ARA?th=1

Hi, Since you brought it up, I’ve been trying to research the use of gentian violet in the eye. All I can find are statements that it is toxic to the eye and should be rinsed out immediately if it gets into the eyes.

“Gentian violet is an antiseptic dye used to treat fungal infections of the skin (such as ringworm, athlete's foot). It also has weak antibacterial effects and may be used on minor cuts and scrapes to prevent infection.This product has been withdrawn from the Canadian market due to safety problems.”

“Wash hands immediately after use unless the area being treated includes the hands. Avoid getting the product in your eyes. If the medication gets into your eyes, rinse the area immediately with clean water for at least 15 minutes. Seek medical attention”


Also, the Amazon link provided says “do not use in the eyes”.

If you have a resource for the use of gentian violet in the eyes— I’d love to see it. Trying to get to the bottom of the dye in his eye.

Thanks for your help.
 
  • #754
I wonder if Joseph had Williams syndrome because of his tiny nose.
 
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  • #755
Hi, Since you brought it up, I’ve been trying to research the use of gentian violet in the eye. All I can find are statements that it is toxic to the eye and should be rinsed out immediately if it gets into the eyes.

“Gentian violet is an antiseptic dye used to treat fungal infections of the skin (such as ringworm, athlete's foot). It also has weak antibacterial effects and may be used on minor cuts and scrapes to prevent infection.This product has been withdrawn from the Canadian market due to safety problems.”


Also, the Amazon link provided says “do not use in the eyes”.

If you have a resource for the use of gentian violet in the eyes— I’d love to see it. Trying to get to the bottom of the dye in his eye.

Thanks for your help.

Corneal vital staining with gentian violet​

A Islam 1, A Khan, Z A Rahman
Affiliations expand
  • PMID: 1710886

Abstract​

We have used 0.5% gentian violet solution as a corneal vital stain in 112 patients with variable degrees of corneal involvements and in 40 normal eyes as control. Gentian violet stained the epithelial defects and degenerated epithelial cells of cornea. The stain persisted 3-5 minutes and disappeared by 8-10 minutes. There was no cross infection from dye use. The dye did not hamper usual process of repair of corneal lesions

_____________________
<modsnip - off topic>

Just because a label says, "Don't do this", doesn't mean that people won't do this or that.
 
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  • #756
Hi, Since you brought it up, I’ve been trying to research the use of gentian violet in the eye. All I can find are statements that it is toxic to the eye and should be rinsed out immediately if it gets into the eyes.

“Gentian violet is an antiseptic dye used to treat fungal infections of the skin (such as ringworm, athlete's foot). It also has weak antibacterial effects and may be used on minor cuts and scrapes to prevent infection.This product has been withdrawn from the Canadian market due to safety problems.”

“Wash hands immediately after use unless the area being treated includes the hands. Avoid getting the product in your eyes. If the medication gets into your eyes, rinse the area immediately with clean water for at least 15 minutes. Seek medical attention”


Also, the Amazon link provided says “do not use in the eyes”.

If you have a resource for the use of gentian violet in the eyes— I’d love to see it. Trying to get to the bottom of the dye in his eye.

Thanks for your help.
I am allergic to many antibiotics so when I had mastitis and my baby had thrush I was given Gentian violet. So purple! I remember reading that it shouldn't be swallowed, but at the same time I had instructions for painting the inside of my infant's mouth with it! Maybe there is a use for it in the eyes, or maybe there used to be but has since been determined to be harmful.
 
  • #757
Hi, Since you brought it up, I’ve been trying to research the use of gentian violet in the eye. All I can find are statements that it is toxic to the eye and should be rinsed out immediately if it gets into the eyes.

“Gentian violet is an antiseptic dye used to treat fungal infections of the skin (such as ringworm, athlete's foot). It also has weak antibacterial effects and may be used on minor cuts and scrapes to prevent infection.This product has been withdrawn from the Canadian market due to safety problems.”

“Wash hands immediately after use unless the area being treated includes the hands. Avoid getting the product in your eyes. If the medication gets into your eyes, rinse the area immediately with clean water for at least 15 minutes. Seek medical attention”


Also, the Amazon link provided says “do not use in the eyes”.

If you have a resource for the use of gentian violet in the eyes— I’d love to see it. Trying to get to the bottom of the dye in his eye.

Thanks for your help.

Not to be used in the eyes!
 
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  • #758
Hi, Since you brought it up, I’ve been trying to research the use of gentian violet in the eye. All I can find are statements that it is toxic to the eye and should be rinsed out immediately if it gets into the eyes.

“Gentian violet is an antiseptic dye used to treat fungal infections of the skin (such as ringworm, athlete's foot). It also has weak antibacterial effects and may be used on minor cuts and scrapes to prevent infection.This product has been withdrawn from the Canadian market due to safety problems.”

“Wash hands immediately after use unless the area being treated includes the hands. Avoid getting the product in your eyes. If the medication gets into your eyes, rinse the area immediately with clean water for at least 15 minutes. Seek medical attention”


Also, the Amazon link provided says “do not use in the eyes”.

If you have a resource for the use of gentian violet in the eyes— I’d love to see it. Trying to get to the bottom of the dye in his eye.

Thanks for your help.
I found, while googling, it was used for treating eye & skin infections on animals.
https://publications.iarc.fr/_publi.../97810b4d6d234a5ea15f3d0c0e846e1f9425e0c2.pdf page 46

That might suggest :
the people giving it to him had animals (& wanted to use the treatment on him)
or
that back in the days they used it on peoples eyes also, and it was only later on that scientists noticed it was unhealthy (like so many treatments in the past).

Moo

(Edited to add link)
 
  • #759
If someone put it in his eyes, thinking it would help, not hurt, maybe he was held in the water to attempt to wash it out, leading to water in the lungs.... and a huge panic, ending with blunt force trauma? If there was no record of Joseph's placement, who would report him missing or even be aware?

If Joseph was adopted, his birth mother was probably told lofty things about his adoptive family, true or not. And even if sge was aware if the Boy in the Box, would never associate him with her baby.

JMO
 
  • #760
Were M's parents (the librarian and the science teacher - per previously linked report on thread) ever named. Is it public knowledge that these were their occupations? And, the assumption from M's account... these parents simply purchased a child to physically abuse??
MOO, I believe her story (IDK if it was Joseph, but more likely than not if it is true IMO) I think she misunderstood what happened with the exchange of money (I think people paid others to care for their children that they did not want to care for themselves, much like the current foster system) IMO
 
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