Resolved PA - Philadelphia, Delaware River, *GRAPHIC*, WhtFem 20-40, UP62263, 'Oakville Grocery' bag, Dec'19

[carbuff]

I wonder what caused the marks around her neck.. I can understand the marks on her forehead and the bruising on her nose.. but the marks around her neck look strange.

Maybe she (or somebody else) tied the bag over her head and around her neck?

 

[bflocket]

I wonder what caused the marks around her neck.. I can understand the marks on her forehead and the bruising on her nose.. but the marks around her neck look strange.

They could be from just being handled/recovered. Pulling a wet corpse from a river doesn't sound like it could possibly ever hope to be a very "gentle" event.
And some of the redness could be from temperature or moisture changes. The morgue or even the riverbank (wherever pic was taken) probably wasn't all warm and cozy, but I'm sure it was much warmer and a whole lot drier than that river is in December. Maybe she got snagged on something while floating down the river and got damaged that way.

I wonder if salinity, like "backwash" from the ocean (I know the river isn't really swift or super powerful there) or pollutants could've affected her in any way. It's not too far from where the river gets fat and becomes Delaware Bay (basically an inland extension of the Atlantic) so it has to be a lot saltier than any of the creeks and rivers where I live.

I actually think the Ohio River in Louisville is really pretty gross. And it's only been through three "kinda/sorta" big towns by that point (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville) but plenty of farmland with manure that's not just made by animals but saved and spread all around as fertilizer. I've been around the Delaware River a little bit in my lifetime. My mom did her residency (or some doctor-making thing) in Wilmington and still has some friends up there so we'd go up there every few years. I didn't study it or even really do that much around the river, but I got a good enough look at it to know that I definitely wouldn't ever want to touch it. I couldn't even imagine swimming in it. City junk that gets in rivers up there up there is probably just as nasty as the cow manure tea that's my local gross-river-making thing. Just in a different "really, really gross" kind of way (used needles, dead mobsters, Three Mile Island slime, etc).

 

[azure]

OT but here's Andrea Knabel in photographs released by the PD. Why the old photos? It's anyone's guess. Further discussion should probably go in her thread.

 

[proctorelites]

I personally believe alot of those marks came before she entered the water & before death but I am just a layman.

 

[Gardener1850]

What was weather like on Dec 1? I think this is a homicide based on the bruising around her neck and the way she was dressed. She was dressed like she was going to the gym or for a run. She was not dressed warm enough to be a homeless woman in December in PA, IMHO (unless someone had taken her in or she lost some outer layers of clothing in the river).

Clothing: Maroon colored long sleeved shirt, Black RLx brand sports bra, dark colored pants, black sneakers.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

I suspect as others here have speculated that she might have been suffocated with the grocery bag placed over her head and tied around her neck. She might be someone who has not been reported missing yet if a family member murdered her. MOO.

 

[LittleDBK]

maybe someone tied a bag of rocks to her and the bag broke...

They could be from just being handled/recovered. Pulling a wet corpse from a river doesn't sound like it could possibly ever hope to be a very "gentle" event.
And some of the redness could be from temperature or moisture changes. The morgue or even the riverbank (wherever pic was taken) probably wasn't all warm and cozy, but I'm sure it was much warmer and a whole lot drier than that river is in December. Maybe she got snagged on something while floating down the river and got damaged that way.

I wonder if salinity, like "backwash" from the ocean (I know the river isn't really swift or super powerful there) or pollutants could've affected her in any way. It's not too far from where the river gets fat and becomes Delaware Bay (basically an inland extension of the Atlantic) so it has to be a lot saltier than any of the creeks and rivers where I live.

I actually think the Ohio River in Louisville is really pretty gross. And it's only been through three "kinda/sorta" big towns by that point (Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville) but plenty of farmland with manure that's not just made by animals but saved and spread all around as fertilizer. I've been around the Delaware River a little bit in my lifetime. My mom did her residency (or some doctor-making thing) in Wilmington and still has some friends up there so we'd go up there every few years. I didn't study it or even really do that much around the river, but I got a good enough look at it to know that I definitely wouldn't ever want to touch it. I couldn't even imagine swimming in it. City junk that gets in rivers up there up there is probably just as nasty as the cow manure tea that's my local gross-river-making thing. Just in a different "really, really gross" kind of way (used needles, dead mobsters, Three Mile Island slime, etc).

So many questions, for sure! I believe the bag is the key here, but the police aren't talking. I wonder why there have been no reports at all since the day and day after she was found. Why aren't the police asking for help? Usually when a body is found, there are media reports in the weeks afterwards. Perhaps they did a tox report and found she had OD'd and they aren't too worried a killer is on the loose? I agree that her clothing doesnt seem like something a transient person would wear in December. No reports of how long they think she was in the water or if it was suspected foul play. I wish the police would release something in order to get to her true identity!

 

[proctorelites]

I think it would be hard for lividity to pick amd choose areas. Conveniently on her neck, like hand marks, nose and temple areas. Seems like it would be more localized. (But.. she is n water)

I had a man put his hands around my neck to strangle me and then smash my mouth and nose with his hand to keep me from screaming. I still have red marks on my nose from that, its been a decade+. That is what I thought of when I saw her face & neck. I may be triggered to see DV, idk. all IMOO.

 

[LittleDBK]

I think it would be hard for lividity to pick amd choose areas. Conveniently on her neck, like hand marks, nose and temple areas. Seems like it would be more localized. (But.. she is n water)

I had a man put his hands around my neck to strangle me and then smash my mouth and nose with his hand to keep me from screaming. I still have red marks on my nose from that, its been a decade+. That is what I thought of when I saw her face & neck. I may be triggered to see DV, idk. all IMOO.

I'm so sorry that happened to you! My dear friend was killed by her husband in 2018- he strangled her as well. He is on trial currently and the jury is deliberating as we speak. (Boulder, CO.) He admits to killing her, but denies it was premeditated (or "with deliberation") Websleuths is helping me keep my mind off of it, and my fingers busy so I dont keep hitting "refresh" on the journalist's Twitter feed (Mitchell Byars is covering the trial.) I hope they find him guilty of 1st degree murder and not jus manslaughter- strangulation is a horrible way to die and Deb didn't deserve it! Okay, enough ranting...

I think your point is valid, about her neck and face being injured pre-death. I wonder what her final moments were like. How the heck did she end up floating on the Delaware River??? Of course, with no other information to go by, there is no way to know for sure. So much information is missing.

 

[UnlicensedPI]

I'm so sorry that happened to you! My dear friend was killed by her husband in 2018- he strangled her as well. He is on trial currently and the jury is deliberating as we speak. (Boulder, CO.) He admits to killing her, but denies it was premeditated (or "with deliberation") Websleuths is helping me keep my mind off of it, and my fingers busy so I dont keep hitting "refresh" on the journalist's Twitter feed (Mitchell Byars is covering the trial.) I hope they find him guilty of 1st degree murder and not jus manslaughter- strangulation is a horrible way to die and Deb didn't deserve it! Okay, enough ranting...

I think your point is valid, about her neck and face being injured pre-death. I wonder what her final moments were like. How the heck did she end up floating on the Delaware River??? Of course, with no other information to go by, there is no way to know for sure. So much information is missing.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you! If justice doesn't get him, karma will

 

[PayrollNerd]

I'm so sorry that happened to you! My dear friend was killed by her husband in 2018- he strangled her as well. He is on trial currently and the jury is deliberating as we speak. (Boulder, CO.) He admits to killing her, but denies it was premeditated (or "with deliberation") Websleuths is helping me keep my mind off of it, and my fingers busy so I dont keep hitting "refresh" on the journalist's Twitter feed (Mitchell Byars is covering the trial.) I hope they find him guilty of 1st degree murder and not jus manslaughter- strangulation is a horrible way to die and Deb didn't deserve it! Okay, enough ranting...

I think your point is valid, about her neck and face being injured pre-death. I wonder what her final moments were like. How the heck did she end up floating on the Delaware River??? Of course, with no other information to go by, there is no way to know for sure. So much information is missing.

I hope he gets what he deserves. I often wonder what the parents & family were like when someone grows up into a murderer. How cruel and sick someone has or had to be to harm another soul.

I suspect this woman was a homicide victim. If she was out running like I think she was, the perp probably picked her at random. Like the Mollie Tibbets case. A lovely young lady just living her life, and some creep chose her at random.

 

[LittleDBK]

But if she was a jogger or a woman just out and about, you would think there would be a missing person report about her...

 

[PayrollNerd]

But if she was a jogger or a woman just out and about, you would think there would be a missing person report about her...

There may be. She could have been on an out of town trip that her friends and family knew nothing about. Her business associates may not have even known if she was on a sabbatical or took a side trip, etc.

 

[LittleDBK]

There may be. She could have been on an out of town trip that her friends and family knew nothing about. Her business associates may not have even known if she was on a sabbatical or took a side trip, etc.

That's true. Many missing persons reports don't make it to NamUs, I have noticed. I have been checking all of the other outlets (FB, state databases, anywhere I can find) to try to find someone matching her description. I'm sure there are cases that people don't go to the police but try to find someone on their own. But it's been 2 and a half weeks since she was found... Someone must be looking for her.
I am puzzled as to why there have been no media reports since they found her. When other people have been found in the river they get a ton of coverage...

 

[LittleDBK]

They did some minor updates in NamUs today... Changed the height to 5'7" to 5'9" and weight to 160 -180 and confirmed she died in 2019 (obv but still) and listed her age as 20-40. Nothing groundbreaking, but confirms she still is an active Jane Doe.

 

[PayrollNerd]

That's true. Many missing persons reports don't make it to NamUs, I have noticed. I have been checking all of the other outlets (FB, state databases, anywhere I can find) to try to find someone matching her description. I'm sure there are cases that people don't go to the police but try to find someone on their own. But it's been 2 and a half weeks since she was found... Someone must be looking for her.
I am puzzled as to why there have been no media reports since they found her. When other people have been found in the river they get a ton of coverage...

I was sent to Atlanta for training once. In the evenings, I went fabric shopping and to see my friends nearby. No one at work had a clue. If I had dropped off the face of the earth, I doubt they would have had any idea why. But yeah, the disparity in visibility of cases is odd. It makes you wonder if a person had no life at all, no one cared enough to raise an alarm, etc.

 

[LittleDBK]

Total shot in the dark theory: She is visiting from outside of the country, and is jogging along the river. Maybe the bag tied to her was a sort of makeshift fannypack, carrying her phone and wallet. If she was jogging, that would explain the lack of winter coat, and the sports bra and sneakers. While jogging she is either attacked or simply has a mishap and falls into the river.

Supporting ideas for being a foreigner: No tattoos. I don't know the tattoo rates in other countries, but here in the States I think the majority of younger and middle aged people have them, at least one... this could lend itself to the foreigner theory. No fingerprints in the database. I assume she was well-enough intact to be able to pull prints. These days most states require fingerprints to get an ID/drivers license. This also could explain why she may not be known to be missing yet.

 

[Elainera]

Total shot in the dark theory: She is visiting from outside of the country, and is jogging along the river. Maybe the bag tied to her was a sort of makeshift fannypack, carrying her phone and wallet. If she was jogging, that would explain the lack of winter coat, and the sports bra and sneakers. While jogging she is either attacked or simply has a mishap and falls into the river.

Supporting ideas for being a foreigner: No tattoos. I don't know the tattoo rates in other countries, but here in the States I think the majority of younger and middle aged people have them, at least one... this could lend itself to the foreigner theory. No fingerprints in the database. I assume she was well-enough intact to be able to pull prints. These days most states require fingerprints to get an ID/drivers license. This also could explain why she may not be known to be missing yet.

I thought of that scenario too and think it's a real possibility. OTOH if she was visiting the US, where was she staying and where is her luggage? Hotel? Airbnb? With friends? Surely the owner would have realized by now that she hasn't been in for almost three weeks but her things are still there, and contacted police.

Btw many European countries require fingerprints when you apply for a passport. Hopefully LE has contacted Interpol (or whoever the appropriate authority is). Not sure how that would be done.

ETA: I just checked, a fingerprint scan has been mandatory for all European passports since 2009. If she's from Europe her prints should be on file.

 

[LittleDBK]

Ahhhh.... okay... so they should have her prints then if she is from Europe. Thanks for checking that, I didn't realize. I did look through Interpol missing persons but didnt find much. One way or the other, somebody must be missing her. That said, there's thousands of Unidentfied Doe's that you would think the same thing about. Obv the police know something or they would be asking the public for help. They have a lead, at least I hope so.

 

[LittleDBK]

Why did you delete? Something funky happened when I was trying to like your post, sorry if I flagged it or something inadvertantly. I totally see what you mean about tattoos. It def doesn't preclude her from being from the US-- I do know many people without them. Just seems a rarity when looking through missing persons postings. Ultimately, we really don't know where she is from. *sigh*

 

[Gardener1850]

Does anyone think she looks like this missing AR teen?

AR - AR - Haley Nicole Parish, 17, Little Rock, 19 Sept 2019

Her height is listed as 5'4" while the UID is listed as 5' 7"-5' 9" but a missing teen's height might be wrong/old info from previous times she ran away. If it's her then her hair was lightened. Haley was last seen wearing black pants and black shoes and she had a backpack with her. I can't get a decent side by side because the UID's photo is huge and Haley's photos are tiny ID size photos. I was not thinking that this Jane Doe was that young but the resemblance is uncanny to me. If anyone sees what I'm seeing please send it in.