PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

On "negative," I mean I'm not criticize PEF for being from Bellefonte and staying there. She seems happy with it, and Bellefonte is a beautiful town. It just doesn't seem to match up with a person who liked to visit distant large city and distant countries. (I think you might be saying the same thing, but I am not sure.)

I'm not sure if EG had a college degree; you don't need one to be an optician. I'm not sure if she was a native, but she did move out of the area after the divorce and they were married in Virginia.

BG seems to be a brilliant academic and does travel, to the point of being of being a visiting professor at a university in Belgium. She met RFG in college.

Neither one seems to be as tied to the area as PEF was.

The "pet rock" comment came from Jim Bryant. He was never with the DA's Office, because he is a defense attorney. They were not close friends. He ran against RFG in 1993, and they clashed over making the office full time. Bryant was opposed to it.

I saw the initial press conference on the Internet, and PEF was asking RFG to phone home, literally. Even Chief Weaver commented on that, in 2011.

 

[SeekingJana]

Yes, I think we are speaking of the same traits, but using different terms. Our perceptions are that Ray was very different than Patty was when it came to venturing outside a small local circle of comfort. I wonder if they ever took exciting vacations together??
For example, I LOVE to travel internationally for the thrill of communing with people of other nationalities and also for the joy of the many learning experiences I create for myself on trips. My spouse does not share my interest, so I travel alone.
However, our relationship has cohesiveness because of our shared love of learning for its own sake. Both of us have returned to college in our 40's to obtain another post-graduate degree which has enriched our lives greatly. We read great books, we visit museums, we seek out shared learning experiences which draw us closer in a cerebral way. This is important for the life and growth of a relationship.

I definitely think that a person who is intellectual requires a partner of interests in life-long learning, through formal higher education and/or through intense curiosity about the world we share, and through experiencing new and exciting cultures which broaden our world view.
IOW, the same old, same old is not going to be enough " true living" for an adventurous mind and spirit.

I do realize that there comes a life stage for most people in which physical travel may be limited due to chronic illness and complications related to aging. That's why venues such as local literary societies, local lecture series for the pubic at colleges, museums, planetariums, and TV channels such as National Geographic exist and are important for us. I have not watched mainstream network TV for more than a brief moment in many years because I perceive it to be a waste of my time.

Maybe Patty had fears and phobias related to traveling alone or " leaving home". I think my mother has always harbored a deep fear of being alone and also of new experiences. It sounds like Patty is a lot like her.
I cannot think of anything more depressing than having remained in the area in which I grew up, as " picturesque" as it is and as nice as most of the people are. I was well known and from a well known family but the time came early in my adult life when I WANTED to experience my own life in my own way. My parents lived in only 2 houses in 2 towns less than 100 miles apart for over 65 years. from the age of 20 until present ( my father having passed away in this decade). However, my enjoyment of living near a major city far from family members may be an emotional difference which has a strong genetic predisposition more than generational difference. My birth parents are inquisitive, seek out new experiences, and are not afraid to change their habits of living ( location, career opportunities, exotic vacations, marriages/ divorces) just like me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think that idea of a "circle of comfort" is correct. As far as I know, the took vacations, but they were always domestic.

One of PEF's uncles did settle, after college, in the Allentown area, and one of her brother's is a nuclear physicist in Tennessee.

 

[Saunterer]

I didn't know that, either. Thank you for the link. Your last name isn't Bennett, is it? :wink:

No, lol! The "125 Fine Shops" boasted on the website is completely laughable ... more like 125 individual vendors, with most having just a small space allotted for their 'collectibles'.

 

[Trackergd]

The check and request letter mailed on Saturday. I will report back when I get the documents.

 

[SuperSmith]

I recommend you all listen to this. Many details!!!

http://wkok.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/OTM10-16-13.mp3

 

[Saunterer]

I recommend you all listen to this. Many details!!!

http://wkok.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/OTM10-16-13.mp3

Over the years, Bob Buehner has consistently brought out new information on the case through interviews on WKOK. Here he relates corroborating information he personally received from an independent source about a Hells Angels hit, plus more details about the Altoona Mirror story. Fascinating stuff!

 

[Trackergd]

Interesting interview.

Now what I find interesting is that Quarryville is not in Bucks County, it's in Lancaster County. The principle mining in the area was Coal and Nickel. The town of Nickel Mines is just a short drive from Quarryville.

I am very near that area and have friends that live right in both areas. I suspect that I could get a map of known mines and see if I could figure out how many of them have been filled in. That would take some serious equipment and time, not to mention enough fill material. Not something a few bikers with shovels could do overnight.

One more thing to add to my "WS To Do List".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Nobody bats 1000; he has had some high profile misses.

 

[Trackergd]

Further research:

Quarryville never had any registered shaft mines. It was a open stone quarry. Nickel mines just a few short miles away had nickle (at first Copper) mines.

Wonder if the county location of Quarryville was an error on the interview, or on purpose?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Quarryville is in Lancaster County, south of Lancaster.

Neither spot is known for subsurface mining, even historically: http://www.minemaps.psu.edu/

Bucks is fairly close to Phila, but a while back, I noted that there was minimal HA activity here, to the point where they closed the local chapter.

 

[Trackergd]

Port Matilda is only a few miles from Bellefonte. Curious...

 

[Trackergd]

Quarryville is in Lancaster County, south of Lancaster.

Neither spot is known for subsurface mining, even historically: http://www.minemaps.psu.edu/

Bucks is fairly close to Phila, but a while back, I noted that there was minimal HA activity here, to the point where they closed the local chapter.

Come Watson, the game is afoot!

I spent lunch today doing a google earth view of the area and will continue for a few days looking for anywhere a shaft mine could have been filled in. I will also hit my contacts and have them check with the Amish community for the same information.

From the interview, I think there is some truth mixed with enough misinformation to keep the likes of us getting too close.

I remember some MC activity within the Amish community with regard to pot growing operations.

 

[SuperSmith]

Nobody bats 1000; he has had some high profile misses.

Wow I must be physic. When I posted the link to the radio interview my immediate thought was. "I bet J.J. shoots this down quickly." Low and behold there it is. No analysis, no thoughts, nothing. Thank you for not disappointing JJ.

Mr. Buehner is a credible individual. He is a former 20 year DA. He has inside information. He backs up the inmates Hells Angel story with evidence by way of a penpal that has been talking to him for years. A penpal that has not asked for anything in return by the way. Mr. Buehner is not easily fooled and if he took it upon himself to do this interview and put out new information that quit frankly we would never know unless he did then I am AT LEAST going to explore what he is saying with further interest. "Nobody bats 1000?? Really?? That is flat out disrespectful to a professional and friend of Gricar's who has gone out of his way numerous times to provide the public information and keep them interested in the case. He is the thorn in LE's butt and I love it!!! Just because BB doesn't have a favorable opinion of JJ doesn't mean we should just dismiss this.

Tracker I noticed the thing about Quarryville as well. I have focused on Bucks County near the Deleware River.

 

[SuperSmith]

POINT PLEASANT, PA
Here is a great spot for a weekend getaway.--where the Tohickon Creek flows into the Delaware River. This is our destination of Point Pleasant, Pennsylvania. Near Philadelphia, in Bucks County, there were once argillite mines here.

http://www.visitbucks.com/cities/display-city-14.php

 

[Trackergd]

Lets not get locked down again folks......

At least we can have some fun doing some research in case the stack of paperwork on the way proves to be useless....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The Native Americans worked to quarry the argillite so that it could be used for knife blades as well as arrowheads.

http://www.visitbucks.com/cities/display-city-14.php

It was a quarry, no shafts.

BB has given me things that turned out to be wrong. Nobody bats 1000.

Some of that, I disagree with him, like the 4/16/05 sightings.

 

[SuperSmith]

Lets not get locked down again folks......

At least we can have some fun doing some research in case the stack of paperwork on the way proves to be useless....

Has anyone come up with the name of the former Hells Angel president? Many clues in BB's interview.

It was the New York chapter he was president of. Nothing to do with Philly.

 

[SuperSmith]

The Native Americans worked to quarry the argillite so that it could be used for knife blades as well as arrowheads.

http://www.visitbucks.com/cities/display-city-14.php

It was a quarry, no shafts.

BB has given me a few things that turned out to be wrong.

JJ, there is something I differ on with BB as well but I do not believe he has ever flat out lied so I believe this story about his penpal which is key!

For instance I do not believe Craig Bennett saw Gricar in the SOS. BB believes him.

 

[Trackergd]

The only shaft mines I am aware of are owned by Re*ding Anthr*cite Coal Co. I know a few have been filled in over the years. Some that I had been down in. But as I noted before, anything other than an air shaft would require some heavy equipment and a ready source of fill material. It would have been quite an undertaking and should have been noticed by locals.