PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[SuperSmith]

Smith, what I am asking is there any record of RFG every handling a case involving a Hell's Angel in Cleveland? Right now the Cuyahoga County bench has 34 judges on it, so one judge, possibly out of 20-25 then, is not significant.

Further, is there any connection between A. K. and any of these people? A. K. was president of a H A chapter in NY. Nobody in the article you cited seemed to be connected to him. A. K. was an ex-Hell's Angel and a known informant, so it is unlikely he'd do any of them a "solid."

I said I don't know yet but if he did prosecute one or more it might have gotten him on their s&$! list it wouldn't matter what chapter handled him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A. K. was listed as an ex-Hell's Angel. A. K. is more likely to be a target than RFG, because A. K. was an informant.

So, did RFG ever prosecute anyone HA in Cleveland? If so, were they still around in 2005?

 

[Saunterer]

JJ, in regard to your post #11-358:
Why do you feel it necessary to "hold back things"? And why on earth would you accuse SS (of all people) of holding back things?

When questioned about the recent Altoona Mirror story, BB detailed his own corroborating experience from 2010, involving a completely independent source. BB went on to give details about Bock's source he had obviously gotten from his conversations with Bock (i.e. an existing county, lying along an existing river, with, as I later determined, existing underground mines and many open shafts).

BB did not confirm the (WKOK) host's fuzzy suggestion that Gricar's daughter intended to use some of her inheritance to privately hire someone to investigate her father's disappearance. But knowing BB and the host somewhat, I would bet this was a past (private and wholly accurate) conversation that just slipped out...as in not for public consumption at this time.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, because SS said he had a source and couldn't explain who. In my case, there are a few things I am not comfortable in saying because I cannot confirm it to my satisfaction; that is some of it. None of them point toward foul play in regard to the disappearance.

BB said he remembered something that LG said, which she hadn't. She has said quite the opposite. Were you aware that while she was trustee, she could have petitioned the court to use estate funds to conduct a search?

While I was aware of a lot of negative comments direct to LG, and while I do realize the emotional difficulty she was facing, could you imagine the public impact of her standing in from of the Courthouse in July 2011, saying, "Please, if you know anything about what happened to my dad, call the police?" It was an opportunity missed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Oh, and Saunterer, what you "confirmed" was that there was a mine/cave complex, not a group of mines. You also confirmed that it was not sealed under dirt, because it bat habitat, that is monitored by biologists. Not a good place to hide bodies or guns.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is a story on the mine/cave that was cited earlier: http://www.phillyburbs.com/my_town/...cle_19e44845-452b-5ffe-ba71-110122304402.html

White nose fungus wiped them out.

 

[Saunterer]

Me thinks some people should go back and carefully listen to the Bob Buehner hour on WKOK last Wednesday. The link is cited somewhere above.

 

[SuperSmith]

Oh, and Saunterer, what you "confirmed" was that there was a mine/cave complex, not a group of mines. You also confirmed that it was not sealed under dirt, because it bat habitat, that is monitored by biologists. Not a good place to hide bodies or guns.

So JJ would you like to discuss another aspect of the case while I do some more research? Im willing and able

 

[Saunterer]

The Durham Mine is just one example of mines, with shafts, near the Delaware River, in Bucks County. The former county judge who owned the property agreed to have the entrance gated, to allow the occupying bats ingress and egress while prohibiting human intrusion. It did not work. The gate was breached several times, including once using welding tools. And it was discovered that humans were using other entrances for access. The shafts in this particular area are well known.

This is but one mine (including quarries), with shafts, dotting the Delaware River in Bucks County. But the historical information I found online regarding the Durham Mine is enough to confirm the plausibility of the story recently presented.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, Smith, we could talk about the family reaction after 2006 and 2009.

Or, we could talk about the seemingly low assets.

We could talk about new investigation avenues, which I'd be game to.

Or, we could talk about suicide as a possibility. I think it is low, but still possible.

 

[SuperSmith]

Well, Smith, we could talk about the family reaction after 2006 and 2009.

Or, we could talk about the seemingly low assets.

We could talk about new investigation avenues, which I'd be game to.

Or, we could talk about suicide as a possibility. I think it is low, but still possible.

I don't think the assets were that low. I think he spent a fair amount with Emma at least and Patty. He also liked travel, nice clothes, cars, and antiques. I feel confident he spent a good bit on Lara while she had access herself. LE didn't find much missing so it may be a non issue

 

[SuperSmith]

I do not hold issue with the family as I do not pretend to walk in someone else's shoe especially on the heals of a tragedy.

Suicide is way low in my book.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I looked at satellite photos of most of the listed "mines." You might check Mine Hill Road south east of the Durham Furnace complex. It is a mixture of well manicured lawns in front of McMansions and farmland; yes, some do have built in pools.

These were mines in the 1800's but there is no sealed off shafts; the buildings don't look like they were built after 2005. The lead mines are now in the middle of a lake in a state park. I don't expect you, or BB, to know this off the tops of your heads. I had to look, but I did look.

I strongly suspect that Beck's informant was leading him down the garden path, and unfortunately a few people followed.

It is important to check these things out, and I'm happy that I wasn't the first one to spot the problems.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is a question. Why doesn't RFG show up in the Social Security death index?

 

[Saunterer]

Based just on my own research, cited in this thread, I am satisfied that Greg Bock's informant's story is plausible. Buehner's story adds credibility to Bock's story. That others cannot see this is of no concern to me. I will just continue moving ahead...if that is ok with y'all, or not LOL!

 

[Salem]

Please remember NOT to PERSONALIZE your posts. If you cannot respond respectfully to others, then don't respond.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think assets may be a key issue. He grossed over $330,000 since his divorce from Emma, even if he was penniless at the end.

 

[SeekingJana]

Here is a question. Why doesn't RFG show up in the Social Security death index?

Because his death was not reported to the Social Security Admin?

The FAQ for the SSDI state in part:
The Death Master File (DMF) from the Social Security Administration (SSA) currently contains over 89 million records and is updated weekly. The file is created from internal SSA records of deceased persons possessing social security numbers and whose deaths were reported to the SSA. Often this was done in connection with filing for death benefits by a family member, an attorney, a mortuary, etc. Each update of the DMF includes corrections to old data as well as additional names. [NOTE: If someone is missing from the list, it may be that the benefit was never requested, an error was made on the form requesting the benefit, or an error was made when entering the information into the SSDI.]
Why can’t I see the Social Security Number? If the Social Security Number is not visible on the record index it is because Ancestry.com does not provide this number in the Social Security Death Index for any person that has passed away within the past 10 years.

This file includes the following information on each decedent, if the data is available to the SSA:

• Last name
• First name
• Social Security Number
• State issued
• Birth date
• Death date
• Last residence
• Lump sum payment

The absence of a particular person in the SSDI is not proof this person is alive. Additionally, there is a possibility that incorrect records of death have been entered on the DMF. The Social Security Administration does not guarantee the accuracy of the file.

The possibly important parts are bolded by me.

 

[SuperSmith]

I think assets may be a key issue. He grossed over $330,000 since his divorce from Emma, even if he was penniless at the end.

Problem with that line of thinking is BPD didn't see it as significant much like the HA story you pointed out. Point is if you trust them regarding the HA story so you must trust them regarding his finances right? Us don't get to pick and choose. Guess that would apply for me as well.

 

[SuperSmith]

I think assets may be a key issue. He grossed over $330,000 since his divorce from Emma, even if he was penniless at the end.

His daughter was in college, he traveled, Lara's living expenses, his, Mini purchase, paid off Patti's house. Adds up quick.


Plus that was a gross amount you gave. Taxes bite when you make that much.