PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

So are you now saying that RG had two laptops?

What Apple laptop model do you speak of?

No, I am saying that the newer models were out in mid 2003 to early 2004, so the Trek 2 was still being sold at that point. They were the next in the series of Micron/MPC products. I'm sorry if you don't understand that they were the replacement model.

You made a claim that a model wouldn't be sold for such a "long" period of time. I say they would be and cite this as a source: PowerBook G4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. In MPC's case, I would suspect it has something to do with the MPC rebranding.

Centre County was not know to be on a technological cutting edge; they just got rid of their telephone switchboard in late 2005 or early 2006.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I believe Ray Gricar was taken out for revenge.

As J.J. indicated any potential damaging information contained on the laptop would offer no guarantees that the same information would not exist else. (another computer, hard drive, disk, hard copy, or word of mouth)

The laptop was either a prop to steer the investigation or the killer(s) just ditched it in the river deeming it of no importance vs. the remains of a dead body.

Someone had it in for Ray Gricar in my humble opinion.

There are numerous problems with "revenge," including how a killer would know where RFG was and the inherent risk of being seen in Lewisburg. The parking lot has occupied buildings with facing windows on three sides, and a road with both vehicle and foot traffic on the fourth.

 

[SuperSmith]

No, I am saying that the newer models were out in mid 2003 to early 2004, so the Trek 2 was still being sold at that point. They were the next in the series of Micron/MPC products. I'm sorry if you don't understand that they were the replacement model.

You made a claim that a model wouldn't be sold for such a "long" period of time. I say they would be and cite this as a source: PowerBook G4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. In MPC's case, I would suspect it has something to do with the MPC rebranding.

Centre County was not know to be on a technological cutting edge; they just got rid of their telephone switchboard in late 2005 or early 2006.

Just trying to get this straight what you are saying. Centre County didn't get its DA's laptops until 2003/4 and they issued a laptop released in 1998?

For the record Microns T2000 & X1000 preceded the T2200 but were released after the Trek 2 that Gricar had.

 

[SuperSmith]

There are numerous problems with "revenge," including how a killer would know where RFG was and the inherent risk of being seen in Lewisburg. The parking lot has occupied buildings with facing windows on three sides, and a road with both vehicle and foot traffic on the fourth.

If Gricar was being followed there wouldn't be a problem knowing where he was would there?

Someone leaning in the passenger window (smoking a cig) showing a piece and coercing him into another vehicle is a REAL possibility.

:moo:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just trying to get this straight what you are saying. Centre County didn't get its DA's laptops until 2003/4 and they issued a laptop released in 1998?

The Trek 2 seems to have been sold by Micron/MPC until 2003. Micron did not produce a new model until 2003. They were still selling new Trek 2's in 2002-03.

You seem to find it strange that a county would not by the latest model, or wait a few months for a later model. That is not unusual, because the cost of ones being replace, or soon to be replaced, will tend to be lower. In local governments, a state of the art latest model laptop would be considered a luxury.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If Gricar was being followed there wouldn't be a problem knowing where he was would there?

Someone leaning in the passenger window (smoking a cig) showing a piece and coercing him into another vehicle is a REAL possibility.

:moo:

1. Why would RFG drive fifty miles from home, not tell anyone where he is going, not leave any notes of what he would be doing? Why a clandestine meeting?

2. Why wouldn't RFG run screaming, since the guy is on the other side of the Mini?

3. If some did grab him in the parking lot, why go to the trouble of hiding the body? We don't have one even potentially like that since 1930.

 

[SuperSmith]

The Trek 2 seems to have been sold by Micron/MPC until 2003. Micron did not produce a new model until 2003. They were still selling new Trek 2's in 2002-03.

You seem to find it strange that a county would not by the latest model, or wait a few months for a later model. That is not unusual, because the cost of ones being replace, or soon to be replaced, will tend to be lower. In local governments, a state of the art latest model laptop would be considered a luxury.

Credibility is important to me in the case of Ray Gricar.

1998/99 Transport Trek, Transport VLX, Transport XKE, Transport XPE,GoBook
1999 Micron Transport NX
2000 Micron Transport LT & ZX
2001 Micron Transport XT
2002 Micron Transport GX3
2003 Micron T2000
2004 Micron T2200

 

[SuperSmith]

1. Why would RFG drive fifty miles from home, not tell anyone where he is going, not leave any notes of what he would be doing? Why a clandestine meeting?

2. Why wouldn't RFG run screaming, since the guy is on the other side of the Mini?

3. If some did grab him in the parking lot, why go to the trouble of hiding the body? We don't have one even potentially like that since 1930.

1. Didn't know it was coming.
2. With a gun on you would you? Or the threat to family.
3. Umm to cover up a murder???!?!?!!??!!?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Credibility is important to me in the case of Ray Gricar.

1998/99 Transport Trek, Transport VLX, Transport XKE, Transport XPE,GoBook
1999 Micron Transport NX
2000 Micron Transport LT & ZX
2001 Micron Transport XT
2002 Micron Transport GX3
2003 Micron T2000
2004 Micron T2200

They were still selling and manufacturing the Trek 2 in 2002. Also, were these models just variations on the Trek 2?

 

[SuperSmith]

They were still selling and manufacturing the Trek 2 in 2002. Also, were these models just variations on the Trek 2?

Post#611 "They were still being manufactured in 2003 and I cannot see Centre County wanting to run out and get the latest, most expensive, laptop when it goes on the market immediately.

Are you changing your opinion to 2002 now?

Variations of the Trek 2, no. Variations of the Transport series, yes.

Most electronic companies put out a different product every year. Its what they do. Think of cellphones or cars. Most are variations of the original (faster, more/different options, price).

The point of all of this is I do not believe a local government would purchase a laptop for their District Attorney and for it to be outdated technology by 5-6 years which means RG most likely got his in 1998/1999.

 

[SuperSmith]

I really would like to find out what happened to Ray Gricar. He was an ethical man. He was someone to look up to. He was for justice and victims. He served his County and did it well I might add.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Post#611 "They were still being manufactured in 2003 and I cannot see Centre County wanting to run out and get the latest, most expensive, laptop when it goes on the market immediately.

Are you changing your opinion to 2002 now?

Variations of the Trek 2, no. Variations of the Transport series, yes.

Most electronic companies put out a different product every year. Its what they do. Think of cellphones or cars. Most are variations of the original (faster, more/different options, price).

The point of all of this is I do not believe a local government would purchase a laptop for their District Attorney and for it to be outdated technology by 5-6 years which means RG most likely got his in 1998/1999.

As far I can recall the Trek 2 was still being sold by Micron in 2003. And I have not seen any links to when these others were introduced, except the ones I've linked to.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

1. Didn't know it was coming.
2. With a gun on you would you? Or the threat to family.
3. Umm to cover up a murder???!?!?!!??!!?

1. So, somebody who RFG doesn't realize wants revenge and wants to meet with him 50 miles from home at a clandestine meeting? That makes no sense.

2. I would, as did one of the victims in the March 11, 2005 courthouse shooting in Atlanta. Since it was a courthouse incident, RFG would very likely have been familiar with it. http://murderpedia.org/male.N/n/nichols-brian-gene.htm
It is a lot harder to shoot a moving target and the Mini would provide excellent cover.

3. Why, if it is revenge? If RFG's body was found, there was no likely suspect; trying to get him out of the area increases the odds something will go wrong. Shoot, and leave the scene.

 

[SuperSmith]

For those that read I humbly ask that you use pure logic and understand that Ray Gricar did not walk away from his life. It simply would not make sense to when he could've easily rode off into the sunset in 8 short months, distinguished career, a load of cash from his pension, all his belongings, and his family happy for him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There may be numerous potential reasons, financial, a desire to change his life, a desire not to be the "ex-DA" forever, a worry about security, a desire to show everyone how much smarter he was, for Ray Gricar to leave voluntarily. That is not an all inclusive list.

Please remember that if this was walkaway, it was his choice, and that his desires may not be our desires.

 

[SuperSmith]

I would love to have a good discussion but every theory or opinion I have posted is met immediately with why I am wrong, why what I said can't be, and then the discussion turns right back to walkaway. I havent seen much deviation from that here.

 

[SuperSmith]

What could have been bothering Ray Gricar so much in the weeks prior to his disappearance that it would have showed?

This question of course is for that will entertain the thought that he met with foul play.

 

[imamaze]

Here is how it works here...

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We all have opinions and discussing this case by agreeing or disagreeing is what we do here. Attacking others for having an opinion different from yours is NOT allowed.

Ima

 

[Saunterer]

I lack the fundamental familiarity with his financials that would be helpful to speculating as to how much money he could have squirrled away - but I think discussion as to RG's finances is a good avenue for exploration - interested to read what you all think, on the subject.

MOO, only.

One possible explanation for what happened to RG's wealth, including a reference to a web page from RG's personal attorney:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PA PA-Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11


Trackergd: Thanks for thoughtfully posting selected information acquired from Centre County Register of Wills. The court approved petition to establish a finding of death (your posts #514, 515, 563) was obtained by another poster a couple of years ago. That poster emailed copies to whoever wanted one at the time. Having read it, I agree with you that it is very interesting.

As to the Inheritance Tax return (your post #512), Schedule H, I assume there are no listed funeral expenses. An administrative total of over 15K would obviously not reflect the cost of administering just 1K in total assets, all joint property (Schedule F). The reason lies in the Application of Excuse Filing Complete Inheritance Tax Return with Register of Wills (your post 563), approved by the court on the same day as the petition to establish a finding of death. Documents and other information regarding the bulk of the estate were obviously withheld from the public record, as permitted by the state:

"Confidential documents need not be attached to the return filed with the Register of Wills. Any information which the estate representative considers confidential may be submitted directly to: PA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE...
...Include a statement that the documents are not part of the public record."
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/inheritance_tax/14695 (Rev-1501).

A complete return must be filed with the state. However, I assume documents and other information considered/indicated confidential (not part of the public record) cannot be accessed from the Department of Revenue through the state's right-to-know law.

There is no apparent way for the public to ascertain anything kept confidential; no way for the public to be able to 'follow the money'. However, the state is apparently satisfied with the tax return and LE has repeatedly stated nothing unusual was found in reviewing RG's finances.

 

[SuperSmith]

One possible explanation for what happened to RG's wealth, including a reference to a web page from RG's personal attorney:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PA PA-Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11


Trackergd: Thanks for thoughtfully posting selected information acquired from Centre County Register of Wills. The court approved petition to establish a finding of death (your posts #514, 515, 563) was obtained by another poster a couple of years ago. That poster emailed copies to whoever wanted one at the time. Having read it, I agree with you that it is very interesting.

As to the Inheritance Tax return (your post #512), Schedule H, I assume there are no listed funeral expenses. An administrative total of over 15K would obviously not reflect the cost of administering just 1K in total assets, all joint property (Schedule F). The reason lies in the Application of Excuse Filing Complete Inheritance Tax Return with Register of Wills (your post 563), approved by the court on the same day as the petition to establish a finding of death. Documents and other information regarding the bulk of the estate were obviously withheld from the public record, as permitted by the state:

"Confidential documents need not be attached to the return filed with the Register of Wills. Any information which the estate representative considers confidential may be submitted directly to: PA DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE...
...Include a statement that the documents are not part of the public record."
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/inheritance_tax/14695 (Rev-1501).

A complete return must be filed with the state. However, I assume documents and other information considered/indicated confidential (not part of the public record) cannot be accessed from the Department of Revenue through the state's right-to-know law.

There is no apparent way for the public to ascertain anything kept confidential; no way for the public to be able to 'follow the money'. However, the state is apparently satisfied with the tax return and LE has repeatedly stated nothing unusual was found in reviewing RG's finances.

A very sound analysis