PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[J. J. in Phila]

True he could have downloaded to a flash drive but that doesn't really answer the question I posed to nevereverever.

Only way to be traced is to be online.

Yes, but that would be the prime reason to keep the laptop/drive, going on line. Further, I'm not too sure about the interchangeability of hard drives. There would also be the possibility of damage, that, while the data could be recoverable, it might not be usable.

 

[SuperSmith]

Hypothetical Situation

RG is tired and stressed from trying to wrap up 20 years worth of work as his retirement approaches. He decides to take a Friday off. It's a Spring Day, nice, and good for a drive. A friend calls or he calls someone to meet him for lunch. They decide to meet in the SOS parking lot. The friend smokes and upon arrival in the parking lot leans in RG's window and says they will drive.

RG is driven to a destination not known and is murdered, taken, and buried away from Lewisburg. Returning to the Mini the laptop is found inside. The perps decide to trash it and throw it in the river either that weekend or after the initial searches were conducted.

No crime scene in Lewisburg.

Ray Gricar in my opinion was betrayed by someone he trusted.

 

[SuperSmith]

It would make very little sense to throw a computer and a removed hard drive into a river if all it had been doing was sitting in a closet unused - unless - it was pulled out and used as a "thumb drive" to store data in transit.

In my "foul play" scenarios it makes perfect sense to throw the laptop/hard drive into the river near where the car was found. It creates a scene for LE to be focused on and away from a possible crime scene. JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped.

Hypothetical Situation

RG is tired and stressed from trying to wrap up 20 years worth of work as his retirement approaches. He decides to take a Friday off. It's a Spring Day, nice, and good for a drive. A friend calls or he calls someone to meet him for lunch. They decide to meet in the SOS parking lot. The friend smokes and upon arrival in the parking lot leans in RG's window and says they will drive.

Okay, where is the record of the call or e-mail that says, in effect, **Meet me in Lewisburg for lunch?** It would be very unlikely that anyone in Centre County would arrange for lunch 50 miles away. It would likely be via e-mail or toll call, and there will a record of either.

 

[SuperSmith]

RFG had used it as a "home computer" until 12/04 or 1/05. QUOTE]

I wanted to clear up confusion for the readers as these dates are absolutely imperative to the investigation.

This time line link I posted only indicates that a home computer was purchased in 2004 and the laptop was in the closet not being used.

"2004 - Gricar purchased a red Mini Cooper as a gift for his girlfriend Patty Fornicola and the vehicle is titled in her name. A new desktop computer is also purchased for the home and reportedly Gricar’s laptop is not being used and is kept in Fornicola's upstairs closet. Fornicola has her own laptop at work and access to another."

https://sites.google.com/site/raygricar/timeline

There is no doubt that the laptop Ray Gricar was using was a Micron Transport Trek II that started production in 1998.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7414547_specs-micron-transport-trek-ii.html
Investigators Find Ray Gricars Missing Laptop Computer - YouTube

I believe the source of confusion is that the MINI COOPER was purchased in 12/04-1/05 as cooperated by J. Karen Arnold in her piece on the disappearance.

"The first is that when the car was purchased, which if I recall correctly was somewhere around Christmas of 2004 or early January of 2005, it was stated by Ray to the staff to have been a gift."

https://sites.google.com/site/gricardisappearance/gricardisappearance

Then there is this information from the local newspaper.

"It wasn’t until Tuesday that they revealed the extent of Gricar’s probable quest to clear the hard drive. They say the state police forensic computer lab found early in the investigation that the searches for information on “Window Washer 5.0” and other hard-drive erasing products had been made on the computer at the home Gricar shared with his live-in girlfriend.

Other searches included: “how to wreck a hard drive,” “how to fry a hard drive,” “what’s inside a computer,” “what’s inside a notebook computer,” and “water damage to a notebook computer.”

Investigators previously had disclosed that they had, through interviews, heard that Gricar was talking about ways to erase a hard drive with friends and colleagues about 16 months before he disappeared. A box for such software was seen at his house around January 2004.

“The investigation learned early on that Mr. Gricar had, in fact, purchased software to accomplish this,” Rickard said. “It was believed that pending Mr. Gricar’s retirement, he may have wanted to erase his county-issued laptop computer prior to returning the laptop to the District Attorney’s Office.”

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/15/1228995/foul-play-theory-weakened.html#storylink=cpy"

So it can be said with 100% certainty that the internet searches were done in JANUARY 2004 on the NEW HOME COMPUTER and the WINDOW WASHER software was purchased the same month and year and that RG was inquiring about ways to erase a drive in 12/2003 (16 months before he disappeared)

So the laptop without a doubt was issued prior to January 2004. It has been indicated here 2003-2004 time frame.

Logic dictates that you are not going to accept a County laptop in 2003, inquire how to erase it, buy software to do it, etc. This is why I believe that Ray Gricar's laptop was issued much earlier.

Yes I believe Timothy Boyd was mistaken.

 

[SuperSmith]

Snipped.



Okay, where is the record of the call or e-mail that says, in effect, **Meet me in Lewisburg for lunch?** It would be very unlikely that anyone in Centre County would arrange for lunch 50 miles away. It would likely be via e-mail or toll call, and there will a record of either.

We haven't seen the phone records (home) or (cell)

Who said it was a friend from Centre County?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RFG may have taken preliminary steps clean the laptop, ask people about it, purchased software, but that would not indicate he had purchased the desktop. As noted, the desktop was was purchased "recently" and 15 months before isn't exactly "recently."


The delivery on that model appeared to start in late 1998 to early 1999, so no one had them before that. Boyd indicated it was 2003-4 that the laptop was issued to RFG; I believe him. Now, it is possible the county bought several earlier and didn't issue one to him immediately; RFG may not have felt a need for one before then. It is also clear that he used the laptop as a home computer prior to getting the desktop.

Having worked in or with several levels of government, I will state that it is usual for them not to get state of the art hardware as soon as it comes out. At DPW, one of the largest (if not the largest) agencies in the state, we did not have voice mail in 1998.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We haven't seen the phone records (home) or (cell)

Who said it was a friend from Centre County?

We also know that there were no unaccounted for calls, according to LE.

A friend not from the area would have left a record of the call. A call from Lewisburg, for example, is a toll call, and there would be a record of the call being made to RFG's phone.

That would eliminate an outsider calling him.

 

[SuperSmith]

RFG may have taken preliminary steps clean the laptop, ask people about it, purchased software, but that would not indicate he had purchased the desktop. As noted, the desktop was was purchased "recently" and 15 months before isn't exactly "recently."


The delivery on that model appeared to start in late 1998 to early 1999, so no one had them before that. Boyd indicated it was 2003-4 that the laptop was issued to RFG; I believe him. Now, it is possible the county bought several earlier and didn't issue one to him immediately; RFG may not have felt a need for one before then. It is also clear that he used the laptop as a home computer prior to getting the desktop.

Having worked in or with several levels of government, I will state that it is usual for them not to get state of the art hardware as soon as it comes out. At DPW, one of the largest (if not the largest) agencies in the state, we did not have voice mail in 1998.

2004 is eliminated by what LE and the Timeline website indicated and the fact that software was already purchased. You are not going to inquire about and purchase hard drive erasing software BEFORE you receive a laptop.

Even if Boyd was correct that RG received the laptop in the earliest of 2003 (Jan) are we to believe he was already making plans to erase it in December 2003? That certainly doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind.

I hope the other readers can follow my previous post about the laptop and decide for themselves.

 

[SuperSmith]

We also know that there were no unaccounted for calls, according to LE.

A friend not from the area would have left a record of the call. A call from Lewisburg, for example, is a toll call, and there would be a record of the call being made to RFG's phone.

That would eliminate an outsider calling him.

You make a valid point about the CELLPHONE record which we have not seen but did LE check the home phone?

 

[SuperSmith]

It is actually on the timeline from the site that you posted, the first item. It is my recollection as well.

The laptop was issued in late 2003 or early 2004, which might be the source of confusion.

I think I've shown this to be inaccurate. I hope this helps your timeline and investigation JJ. That was the sole purpose of pointing it out.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

2004 is eliminated by what LE and the Timeline website indicated and the fact that software was already purchased. You are not going to inquire about and purchase hard drive erasing software BEFORE you receive a laptop.

Even if Boyd was correct that RG received the laptop in the earliest of 2003 (Jan) are we to believe he was already making plans to erase it in December 2003? That certainly doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind.

I hope the other readers can follow my previous post about the laptop and decide for themselves.

I don't see Boyde saying January of 2003.

Yes, we are to believe that RFG didn't want something(s) on the laptop by January 2004 to see the light of day. It would be reasonable that could be numerous things on the drive he didn't want out there, like his personal financial data.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think I've shown this to be inaccurate. I hope this helps your timeline and investigation JJ. That was the sole purpose of pointing it out.

No, we have Boyde's statement as to when the laptop was issued. He was the guy who issued it. We also have the account that the desktop was purchased "recently" and that RFG used the laptop as his home computer, before he bought the desktop.

 

[SuperSmith]

I don't see Boyd saying January of 2003.

Yes, we are to believe that RFG didn't want something(s) on the laptop by January 2004 to see the light of day. It would be reasonable that could be numerous things on the drive he didn't want out there, like his personal financial data.

I was giving Boyd the benefit of the doubt. You indicated late 2003 or early 2004 that the laptop was issued to Gricar. I just eliminated 2004 so I gave Boyd some slack and said January 2003.

It makes less sense the later you get into 2003 that RG would've accepted a laptop, inquired how to erase it, and bought software to do so.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You make a valid point about the CELLPHONE record which we have not seen but did LE check the home phone?

They would almost have to, like checking his home e-mail. A long distance call to the home phone (land line) on 4/15, or even 4/14, would raise all sorts of red flags. I'm assuming RFG had a land line.

 

[SuperSmith]

No, we have Boyd's statement as to when the laptop was issued. He was the guy who issued it. We also have the account that the desktop was purchased "recently" and that RFG used the laptop as his home computer, before he bought the desktop.

Boyd was the Financial Administrator, the IT department issued the laptops. Ok, you don't agree with me and that is fine.

I stand by my analysis. Others are welcome to poke holes in it or agree with it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Boyd was the Financial Administrator, the IT department issued the laptops. Ok, you don't agree with me and that is fine.

I stand by my analysis. Others are welcome to poke holes in it or agree with it.

Actually, Tim Boyde is currently the County administrator, who would be responsible for the day-to-day operations of the county. http://centrecountypa.gov/Index.aspx?NID=163

Finance may keep track of county property, like the laptop.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Perhaps Trackergd could answer this.

There was a cadaver dog search of the river specifically. The dog was on a boat. If RFG's remains were across the river, in the wetland areas, or even a wooded area northeast of the bridge, how likely would it be for a dog to have reacted?

 

[Trackergd]

Cadaver Dogs are a specialized air scent dog. As long as the scent is carried on the wind in their general direction, coming up out of the water or ground as they travel over it as decomp gasses, then they should detect it. If the remains are a distance away and the wind blowing in the wrong direction, probably not.

 

[SeekingJana]

Trackergd, this is probably also for you.

One thing that I have always wondered about-- I am used to using scientific principles to test a result.

How are scent dogs tested in the field when they don't alert on much of anything or when the alerts go nowhere? ( as in the Gricar case)

IOW, is there some sort of " control" which is used to verify the dog's result? Is another dog brought in?

Thanks in advance.