PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[SuperSmith]

Well, on that opinion, I disagree. That could indicate preparations for suicide or for voluntary departure. "Gifting" a car that he drove exclusively is unusual.

The is not "why" Gricar would do something. The question is "if" Gricar did something.

Let me state it a different way. Like in many other cases I do not see motivations, circumstances, or happenings that would necessitate or point to suicide or walkaway.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Let me state it a different way. Like in many other cases I do not see motivations, circumstances, or happenings that would necessitate or point to suicide or walkaway.

I do, and they have been listed. We can speculate about motives, but unless the person is found and agrees to talk (Walkaway) or leaves a suicide note (or was under intense treatment where there were notes), we can only speculate about motives. Same with foul play. Some motives are weaker than others, but they can't be ruled out.

 

[SuperSmith]

I do, and they have been listed. We can speculate about motives, but unless the person is found and agrees to talk (Walkaway) or leaves a suicide note (or was under intense treatment where there were notes), we can only speculate about motives. Same with foul play. Some motives are weaker than others, but they can't be ruled out.

Yes, you are correct. Suicide, Foul Play, & Walkaway scenarios are all speculation at this point.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, you are correct. Suicide, Foul Play, & Walkaway scenarios are all speculation at this point.

As for motives, yes, with some being weaker than others.

The actual evidence is not speculation.

 

[MissJ]

FWIW, RFG had no reason to walk away and every reason to stay. He had excellent retirement package coming his way in a few short months. No one voluntarily walks away from that. Not like he had a house full of kids and a wife he was running from. As far as him having $500,000. in a bank account, how far would that go if he had one major illness or a heart attack and needed follow up surgery? He would have little left. RG is/was a smart man. He would have planned for these type of scenarios. He may have been 57 but some people live to their 80's. I doubt he had enough stashed away to take care of any eventuality. This man was murdered. JMO

 

[SuperSmith]

As for motives, yes, with some being weaker than others.

The actual evidence is not speculation.

Yes you are correct. There is little to no evidence of suicide or walkaway. Not much for foul play either but it is the most likely and logical.



It's a shame LE doesn't treat it as such. Instead they remain steadfast as to Ray Gricar being "missing".

 

[SuperSmith]

FWIW, RFG had no reason to walk away and every reason to stay. He had excellent retirement package coming his way in a few short months. No one voluntarily walks away from that. Not like he had a house full of kids and a wife he was running from. As far as him having $500,000. in a bank account, how far would that go if he had one major illness or a heart attack and needed follow up surgery? He would have little left. RG is/was a smart man. He would have planned for these type of scenarios. He may have been 57 but some people live to their 80's. I doubt he had enough stashed away to take care of any eventuality. This man was murdered. JMO

I agree MissJ and as long as LE continues to keep this case in limbo, this case will never be solved. I'm glad your logic matches up with mine.

 

[MissJ]

I'm here for RFG. I advocate for him. IMO he is a victim. JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes you are correct. There is little to no evidence of suicide or walkaway. Not much for foul play either but it is the most likely and logical.



It's a shame LE doesn't treat it as such. Instead they remain steadfast as to Ray Gricar being "missing".

Why would it be the"most likely?" Very few DA's have been murdered and none missing and murdered.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

FWIW, RFG had no reason to walk away and every reason to stay. He had excellent retirement package coming his way in a few short months. No one voluntarily walks away from that. Not like he had a house full of kids and a wife he was running from. As far as him having $500,000. in a bank account, how far would that go if he had one major illness or a heart attack and needed follow up surgery? He would have little left. RG is/was a smart man. He would have planned for these type of scenarios. He may have been 57 but some people live to their 80's. I doubt he had enough stashed away to take care of any eventuality. This man was murdered. JMO

And his heirs had a much larger inheritance if he never collected it. There would also be tax advantages.

As for medical, depending where he'd be, he could get medical insurance or have his healthcare subsidized. Also, there are who decline treatment; we do know that RFG didn't always run to doctors.

It's one of the problems when dealing with motivation; the counter examples are at least as good.

 

[SuperSmith]

Why would it be the"most likely?" Very few DA's have been murdered and none missing and murdered.

Not many walkaway from their life either, especially so close to retirement. Foul play is most likely because he put people behind bars for a long time! Certainly made a lot of enemies that would want to get back at him. Logical

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not many walkaway from their life either, especially so close to retirement. Foul play is most likely because he put people behind bars for a long time! Certainly made a lot of enemies that would want to get back at him. Logical

Most prosecutors put people behind bars. There are possibly several thousand prosecutors out there, and, so far this year, two were murdered. In both cases, there was no attempt to lure them anyplace nor to hide the body.

 

[SuperSmith]

Most prosecutors put people behind bars. There are possibly several thousand prosecutors out there, and, so far this year, two were murdered. In both cases, there was no attempt to lure them anyplace nor to hide the body.

Conversely, how many of these several thousands of prosecutors walked away from their life with retirement right around the corner?

 

[MissJ]

IMO why would anyone work all their lives for a retirement goal and get so near retirement and then walk away to leave their grown daughter their retirement? By the way if you have been on the missing McStay family threads you know that LE assumed incorrectly that they had walked away. Three plus years later they were found buried in the desert. LE can be influenced by the murderer's staging of so called evidence. JMO. As far as RFG going to MD's or not people do have heart ailments that are emergencies. People do have accidents, serious ones that require sudden and unexpected treatment. It costs money.

 

[MissJ]

Conversely, how many of these several thousands of prosecutors walked away from their life with retirement right around the corner?[/Q


IMO no one would do that without a boatload of money. Much more than RG could have stashed away. What was he walking away FROM?

 

[SuperSmith]

IMO why would anyone work all their lives for a retirement goal and get so near retirement and then walk away to leave their grown daughter their retirement? By the way if you have been on the missing McStay family threads you know that LE assumed incorrectly that they had walked away. Three plus years later they were found buried in the desert. LE can be influenced by the murderer's staging of so called evidence. JMO. As far as RFG going to MD's or not people do have heart ailments that are emergencies. People do have accidents, serious ones that require sudden and unexpected treatment. It costs money.

IMO, no one would MissJ. The ONLY walkaway scenario I can envision is if he was threatened to leave or harm would come to his family. Even in that scenario would that threat still be on the table after 8+ years?

 

[SuperSmith]

Conversely, how many of these several thousands of prosecutors walked away from their life with retirement right around the corner?[/Q

What was he walking away FROM?

His friends, his girlfriend, his pension, his daughter, his belongings, his freedom, his career. Doesn't sound like a favorable proposition does it?? Just so his daughter could reap the tax benefits of her inheritance?? LOL

 

[J. J. in Phila]

IMO why would anyone work all their lives for a retirement goal and get so near retirement and then walk away to leave their grown daughter their retirement? By the way if you have been on the missing McStay family threads you know that LE assumed incorrectly that they had walked away. Three plus years later they were found buried in the desert. LE can be influenced by the murderer's staging of so called evidence. JMO. As far as RFG going to MD's or not people do have heart ailments that are emergencies. People do have accidents, serious ones that require sudden and unexpected treatment. It costs money.

First, I would note that RFG has missing almost three times as long as McStay family, with no evidence of foul play. Arguably, the search for RFG was more extensive than the McStays. It certainly began earlier in the disappearance.

Second, my understanding of how the pension system works is that it would be advantageous financially, to the family, if the person "dies" late in the career. The would also be tax advantages. Someone wanting to provide for his heirs could disappear or commit suicide for those purposes. That may or may not have been RFG's intent, but that was the effect] of this.

Third, it obviously would not make a difference with suicide. RFG, if alive, may be in a location where he can get medical coverage or may feel that, if anything happens, he doesn't want treatment.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

His friends, his girlfriend, his pension, his daughter, his belongings, his freedom, his career. Doesn't sound like a favorable proposition does it?? Just so his daughter could reap the tax benefits of her inheritance?? LOL

Well, it may sound quite favorable to RFG, especially if he had another source of income.

His belongings were quite minor, considering the size of his estate.

 

[MissJ]

What did he have to gain by walking away? Seriously? Go live off the grid for what reason? If someone threatened his family I could believe it. He could live anywhere he wanted or go anywhere he wanted. If he had a huge bank account somewhere I could maybe believe it.