PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[JoePaFan]

Absolutely correct. Corbett was appointed as AG just weeks before Gricar disappeared. Corbett's investigation of Sandusky didn't start until, well, he says it started in 2009, right JJ?

 

[JoePaFan]

Thanks for the welcome, by the way.

 

[JoePaFan]

Actually, I haven't seen any undisputed proof that Gricar tossed the drive. I believe that is the speculation, but there is no proof of that fact. The river was also searched in the exact spot where the drive was eventually found, although it was not there in the initial search. Odd, no?

 

[JoePaFan]

"The 2005 drug bust was not prosecuted by the Centre County DA's Office. It was handled by the AG's Office and the prosecutor was initially Michael Madeira."

I didn't say the drug bust was "prosecuted" by Gricar, did I, JJ? I said reports were that he was involved in a drug investigation. He was involved. There was a press conference just days before he disappeared, remember?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Absolutely correct. Corbett was appointed as AG just weeks before Gricar disappeared. Corbett's investigation of Sandusky didn't start until, well, he says it started in 2009, right JJ?

Corbett was elected in November 2004, not appointed.

The incident relating to Sandusky occurred in 1998. It was never reported to the AG Office; the investigators discovered it in late 2010.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Actually, I haven't seen any undisputed proof that Gricar tossed the drive. I believe that is the speculation, but there is no proof of that fact. The river was also searched in the exact spot where the drive was eventually found, although it was not there in the initial search. Odd, no?

As noted, Gricar was interested in eliminating the data on the laptop, had done searches on water damage to a laptop, was seen with the laptop in Lewisburg, and was seen within about 75 yards from where the drive was tossed. I would call that beyond a reasonable doubt.

Here are some annotated site photos: https://picasaweb.google.com/LookingforRay/Lewisburg73009

Note that the water was higher in April 2005 than in these photos.

At the time, because of the water clarity and debris in the area, it is unlikely that they would have discovered the drive; it was under two feet of water around the time the searches were conducted. The searchers had no idea that the drive was not still in the laptop.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

"The 2005 drug bust was not prosecuted by the Centre County DA's Office. It was handled by the AG's Office and the prosecutor was initially Michael Madeira."

I didn't say the drug bust was "prosecuted" by Gricar, did I, JJ? I said reports were that he was involved in a drug investigation. He was involved. There was a press conference just days before he disappeared, remember?

Neither RFG nor his office had any role in the investigation; the DA's Office itself does not have a detective and did not at the time. He attended a press conference where the charges were announced.

So, basically, no, he was not involved in the investigation or prosecution.

 

[SuperSmith]

Neither RFG nor his office had any role in the investigation; the DA's Office itself does not have a detective and did not at the time. He attended a press conference where the charges were announced.

So, basically, no, he was not involved in the investigation or prosecution.

Gricar may not have been involved with the prosecutions of the perps but he certainly was involved. There is no question about that unless you want to argue with the AG's press release.

"Corbett thanked the officers and participating police departments in the Centre County Drug Task Force, Penn State University Police Services, the Pennsylvania State Police, Centre County District Attorney Gricar and the agents and attorneys from his Bureau of Narcotics Investigation for their extensive work in this investigation."

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=86

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Gricar may not have been involved with the prosecutions of the perps but he certainly was involved. There is no question about that unless you want to argue with the AG's press release.

"Corbett thanked the officers and participating police departments in the Centre County Drug Task Force, Penn State University Police Services, the Pennsylvania State Police, Centre County District Attorney Gricar and the agents and attorneys from his Bureau of Narcotics Investigation for their extensive work in this investigation."

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=86

RFG was the "host DA," as it where, for the press conference. He didn't prosecute and the Centre County DA's Office does not investigate.

 

[SuperSmith]

RFG was the "host DA," as it where, for the press conference. He didn't prosecute and the Centre County DA's Office does not investigate.

HE WAS INVOLVED!!! THAT IS CLEAR!!!

The Centre County Drug Task Force is part of Centre County government. They provided the initial information and the AG began to investigate. Gricar would've been a direct contact for both. Gricar would've been privy to all the information and progress of the prosecutions. I am pretty sure someone from Gricar's office (a woman) (not JKA) helped with the prosecutions or sentencing's. I will try and find a link to confirm that.

Wasn't the drug hearing Gricar missed the morning of 4/18/2005 related to this case?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

First, here, from a few years later is a copy of an article where Madeira requests that the county hire an investigator for the DA's Office.

District Attorney Ray Frank Gricar - Page 2 - Cold Case Investigations

I actually wrote a blog on him, first saying he had adequate resources to handle the Gricar case, and then asking for more resources.

HE WAS INVOLVED!!! THAT IS CLEAR!!!

The Centre County Drug Task Force is part of Centre County government. They provided the initial information and the AG began to investigate. Gricar would've been a direct contact for both. Gricar would've been privy to all the information and progress of the prosecutions. I am pretty sure someone from Gricar's office (a woman) (not JKA) helped with the prosecutions or sentencing's. I will try and find a link to confirm that.

Wasn't the drug hearing Gricar missed the morning of 4/18/2005 related to this case?

The "Drug Task Force" is actually organized by the Attorney General's Office. It assists local departments. See:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/drugs.aspx

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=452

It is not part of the county government (though some counties do have actual county detectives).

 

[SuperSmith]

First, here, from a few years later is a copy of an article where Madeira requests that the county hire an investigator for the DA's Office.

District Attorney Ray Frank Gricar - Page 2 - Cold Case Investigations

I actually wrote a blog on him, first saying he had adequate resources to handle the Gricar case, and then asking for more resources.



The "Drug Task Force" is actually organized by the Attorney General's Office. It assists local departments. See:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/drugs.aspx

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=452

It is not part of the county government (though some counties do have actual county detectives).

You are right about the AG running the task force that is comprised of many from several counties. That being said however it doesn't preclude Gricar from being involved with the passing of information.

Perhaps Gricar stumbled upon a corrupt agent and that is what got him killed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You are right about the AG running the task force that is comprised of many from several counties. That being said however it doesn't preclude Gricar from being involved with the passing of information.

Perhaps Gricar stumbled upon a corrupt agent and that is what got him killed.

There is zero evidence of RFG being involved in the investigation.

There are a lot of "perhapses." Someone could just as easily say "perhaps" they were getting close to Gricar's illegal activities, so he took off. There is just as much evidence for that, i.e. none, zero, as for him finding a "corrupt agent." Because RFG would not be administering the investigation, it might even be less likely for him to have discovered a "corrupt agent."

 

[SuperSmith]

There is zero evidence of RFG being involved in the investigation.

There are a lot of "perhapses." Someone could just as easily say "perhaps" they were getting close to Gricar's illegal activities, so he took off. There is just as much evidence for that, i.e. none, zero, as for him finding a "corrupt agent." Because RFG would not be administering the investigation, it might even be less likely for him to have discovered a "corrupt agent."

Hmmm I see I struck a chord with that possibility. Interesting.

 

[SuperSmith]

Another big bust that has the CC district attorney office involved.

"Corbett said the defendants are scheduled to be preliminarily arraigned today before State College Magisterial District Judge Johnathan Grine. He noted that the defendants will be prosecuted by Centre County District Attorney Mike Madeira's office. "

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=1299

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hmmm I see I struck a chord with that possibility. Interesting.

It looks like I have.

We can all talk about hypothetical situations with no evidence, like RFG being paid off. I think that there were actually some negative comment here about the numerous comments about it. The problem with it is, while hypothetically, it is possible, there is no evidence of it. What evidence that exists, argues against the premise.

Likewise the "corrupt agent" doesn't work too well, because the defendants were convicted.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Another big bust that has the CC district attorney office involved.

"Corbett said the defendants are scheduled to be preliminarily arraigned today before State College Magisterial District Judge Johnathan Grine. He noted that the defendants will be prosecuted by Centre County District Attorney Mike Madeira's office. "

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=1299

All the defendants had a Centre County address, which might have been why this was handled by the Centre County DA. I think the 2005 case was multi-county, though I am not sure.

 

[SuperSmith]

All the defendants had a Centre County address, which might have been why this was handled by the Centre County DA. I think the 2005 case was multi-county, though I am not sure.

I think that DA offices from each County that had a perp involved handled the prosecutions. Madeira handled the big fish. I agree Gricar did not do any of the prosecutions from the heroin bust but I believe one of his ADA's DID handle a couple of the lesser cases.

Still trying to find where I read this.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think that DA offices from each County that had a perp involved handled the prosecutions. Madeira handled the big fish. I agree Gricar did not do any of the prosecutions from the heroin bust but I believe one of his ADA's DID handle a couple of the lesser cases.

Still trying to find where I read this.

I'm not sure that this was the case (at least in this prosecution), but I'd like to see a link.

The head of the ring is Taji "Verbal" Lee, if that helps.

 

[SuperSmith]

I'm not sure that this was the case (at least in this prosecution), but I'd like to see a link.

The head of the ring is Taji "Verbal" Lee, if that helps.

I'll track it down. Certainly MM wasn't going to prosecute all those individuals.