PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

How much? My defined pension plan doesn't make any difference if I die now or twenty years from now. My beneficiary gets the same amount. Not saying his is the same though.

It would have in mine, and mine was similar to (or the same as) his. They would start deducting it immediately.

Two or three years after retiring, I received a letter stating that my contributions were used up and that if I die, my spouse would not receive anything. It would be a fairly big reduction. Maybe 3-7 years later, his heirs would get very little, if anything.

Also note that the pension benefit is not considered part of his estate, unless he designated his estate as the beneficiary. It would not be subject to inheritance tax. If RFG retired and started getting a check and put it in the bank, some of it would be subject to income tax (for him) and his heirs would pay inheritance tax on it. For LG, it would be 7.5%. Now, but putting some of that money into a irrevocable trust, or a single premium life insurance policy, he could avoid that tax (but he couldn't spend the money).

There was a financial advantage to RFG's heirs for him not being able to claim the pension. I am sure he would have realized that.

 

[Trackergd]

Question for J.J.

Did RFG know about J.K.A. running for DA before Mr. Joseph asked him?

Do you have a link to a picture of J.K.A.?

 

[Trackergd]

Now, but putting some of that money into a irrevocable trust, or a single premium life insurance policy, he could avoid that tax (but he couldn't spend the money).

Respectfully snipped.

Insurance policy, yes. Trust, not so much. She would owe tax on the disbursement.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped a bit.

We don't know is my point. Love is complex, as much about neediness as it is about self-sacrifice, and completely irrational, so I would not say that RFG was not a loving father if he walked away for some reason. Quite a few men believe being a "loving father" means to provide for their children and never to be a burden to them. if RFG did walk away, his actions could be consistent with that belief.

UBM

This is it exactly. RFG could feel that, with an adult daughter, 2000+ miles away, the best way to provide for her was to see that she received a pension he had earned. That would not be limited to walkaway, however. It could include suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped.

Insurance policy, yes. Trust, not so much. She would owe tax on the disbursement.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Question for J.J.

Did RFG know about J.K.A. running for DA before Mr. Joseph asked him?

Do you have a link to a picture of J.K.A.?

I do not know if he knew, but she had just filed.

Here is her 2009 website: http://arnoldforda.org/

If you are thinking it, no she does not meet the description of the "Mystery Woman."

 

[Trackergd]

I do not know if he knew, but she had just filed.

Here is her 2009 website: http://arnoldforda.org/

If you are thinking it, no she does not meet the description of the "Mystery Woman."

I figured she did not, but I am curious who her trusted confidants were...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I figured she did not, but I am curious who her trusted confidants were...

No one.

Well, maybe she has a cat.

 

[MissJ]

It would have in mine, and mine was similar to (or the same as) his. They would start deducting it immediately.

Two or three years after retiring, I received a letter stating that my contributions were used up and that if I die, my spouse would not receive anything. It would be a fairly big reduction. Maybe 3-7 years later, his heirs would get very little, if anything.

Also note that the pension benefit is not considered part of his estate, unless he designated his estate as the beneficiary. It would not be subject to inheritance tax. If RFG retired and started getting a check and put it in the bank, some of it would be subject to income tax (for him) and his heirs would pay inheritance tax on it. For LG, it would be 7.5%. Now, but putting some of that money into a irrevocable trust, or a single premium life insurance policy, he could avoid that tax (but he couldn't spend the money).

The was a financial advantage to RFG's heirs for him not being able to claim the pension. I am sure he would have realized that.

I'm sure he knew his pension plan. Mine is defined which means I can never run out of money (or life insurance). So whatever it is worth to me it is worth to my heirs. I get a specified amount for life and my insurance remains the same. ok so this case is all about leaving money to someone. JMO I guess I have no place here with my opinions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm sure he knew his pension plan. Mine is defined which means I can never run out of money (or life insurance). So whatever it is worth to me it is worth to my heirs. I get a specified amount for life and my insurance remains the same. ok so this case is all about leaving money to someone. JMO I guess I have no place here with my opinions.

Yes, you have a place here for your opinions.

In this case it is not opinion. Yes, there would be a financial advantage to RFG's heirs if he died or was declared dead prior to retirement. That does not mean RFG did something to exercise that option.

 

[Trackergd]

I'm sure he knew his pension plan. Mine is defined which means I can never run out of money (or life insurance). So whatever it is worth to me it is worth to my heirs. I get a specified amount for life and my insurance remains the same. ok so this case is all about leaving money to someone. JMO I guess I have no place here with my opinions.

Your opinions do matter and have a place here. Despite media reports to the contrary, I don't know everything and occasionally I am wrong

 

[MissJ]

Your opinions do matter and have a place here. Despite media reports to the contrary, I don't know everything and occasionally I am wrong

Well, thank you because I value your opinions. Always have. JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A blog is up on comparisons between the press coverage in the Susan Bachman case and the RFG case:

http://www.centredaily.com/2014/08/...ray-gricar-and-susan.html?sp=/99/236/704/694/

I really don't think there is anything new in it.

 

[MissJ]

Yes, you have a place here for your opinions.

In this case it is not opinion. Yes, there would be a financial advantage to RFG's heirs if he died or was declared dead prior to retirement. That does not mean RFG did something to exercise that option.

My opinions are not about RFG's pension. I know nothing about his. My opinions are about what most likely happened to him. I think he is dead.

 

[Trackergd]

My opinions are not about RFG's pension. I know nothing about his. My opinions are about what most likely happened to him. I think he is dead.

That is possible. I would assume that hunters, hikers and kids playing in the woods would have stumbled across his remains at this point if he were in close proximity to Lewisburg. There were also some limited searches of the area just after he went missing. I'm more than a little curious about that little island in the river near where the computer was found.

My assumption would be that:

a) He walked farther into the woods that anyone would have assumed he would. Finding him would be a very large effort with trained searchers.
b) He went into the river, in which case he is most likely never going to be found.
c) He was the victim of foul play and was transported elsewhere, also unlikely to be found unless someone involved talks at some point.

I am going to Lewisburg once I have done all I can with the Holly Grim case in Allentown.

Is your theory leaning more towards foul play or suicide?

 

[MissJ]

That is possible. I would assume that hunters, hikers and kids playing in the woods would have stumbled across his remains at this point if he were in close proximity to Lewisburg. There were also some limited searches of the area just after he went missing. I'm more than a little curious about that little island in the river near where the computer was found.

My assumption would be that:

a) He walked farther into the woods that anyone would have assumed he would. Finding him would be a very large effort with trained searchers.
b) He went into the river, in which case he is most likely never going to be found.
c) He was the victim of foul play and was transported elsewhere, also unlikely to be found unless someone involved talks at some point.

I am going to Lewisburg once I have done all I can with the Holly Grim case in Allentown.

Is your theory leaning more towards foul play or suicide?

I fluctuate back and forth on that....at first I thought homicide but now after my discussions with you I'm leaning more toward suicide. JMO.
Many thanks for your time and efforts for this case and others.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I fluctuate back and forth on that....at first I thought homicide but now after my discussions with you I'm leaning more toward suicide. JMO.
Many thanks for your time and efforts for this case and others.

And I would not rule out suicide. The thing is that the pension could point to suicide, as could the low estate.

They both point to something voluntary, and both suicide and walkaway are voluntary.

Further, just an as point, RFG could have walked away and be dead at this point.

 

[Trackergd]

And I would not rule out suicide. The thing is that the pension could point to suicide, as could the low estate.

They both point to something voluntary, and both suicide and walkaway are voluntary.

Further, just an as point, RFG could have walked away and be dead at this point.

This has quite a bit of merit. What was the trigger?

 

[Trackergd]

Where are each of us at this point?

A) Walked away and is in Slovenia (or parts unknown) with a snug cash reserve.
B) Committed suicide due to unknown mental issues or life event trigger.
C) Victim of foul play due to current or past case, or flashed too big a wad of money at the antique shop.
D) Other theory

What is impossible? What is improbable? What is probable?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This has quite a bit of merit. What was the trigger?

Genetics could have been one reason.

RFG was not the kind of the person who would seek medical, or psychological, help. He had some doubts that his brother would commit suicide, despite Roy having a long, and documented, history of bipolar disorder. Sloane said, "He wouldn't even take an aspirin."

I looked at the Sharon Comitz is one example. RFG actually said that because Comitz could plan, she didn't have a psychological problem. http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,149520,00.html

The one time he was sanctioned by a judge, it was for an attempt to get a physician to withdraw as an expert witness. http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_04049209-3057-5e54-9091-c17e93cd66b9.html

The pattern is there.

There is also the possibility of his financial situation not being what he wanted it to be. Assume that the reason for his low assets was bad investments. That could add to it. I don't think that is the case, but I can't rule it out.