PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

No sign of a body, no crime scene, and his hard drive and computer were found in the river. If foul play is the reason for RFG's disappearance, then it was well-planned. Not a random encounter, IMO.

And, if it was foul play, it was something that got him to Lewisburg that:

A. Caused him not to leave a paper or electronic record of the purpose.

B. Caused him not to tell anyone the purpose.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thank you so much, JJ, you are such a fantastic source on this case. The REV-1547 is interesting, but one can specifically ask to have taxes handled on joint accounts separate from this form, I would think if privacy was a concern that could occur - so it is not necessarily conclusive. The large estate expenses are interesting especially with nothing listed.

One way or the other, this info is interesting to me. Either he truly had nothing to report or there are other accounts they handled differently, with other methods. The first is very curious, the second would merely be a personal choice, I would think.

Thanks so much, again. Keep looking, keep posting!

There was no single source of income (other than RFG's salary) in 2004 above $1300. CD's were running about 2%, so the total amount would have been about $65 K or less. 2005, interest went up and nothing was reported. Granted, he could have put a huge amount of money in a checking account, but that would be incredibly stupid.

The estate would have had several large expenses:

1. Filing for the trusteeship (which is not the correct name).

2. Setting up the reward fund.

3. Filing the declaration of death.

You could easily be talking about $1-2 K for each.

LG also indicated that she had to pay his insurance premiums. Assuming that was life insurance (since he wasn't known to have a car, property, and wasn't getting medical treatment) that could $500-$1000 per year, easily, and this was six years. The expenses could be credited against the estate, even if the occurred years before.

Except for interest, which was less than $1,300 in 2005, the estate would not be generating income.

It could be a number of things:

A. Estate planning, and putting a lot of money out of his reach.

B. Really bad investments.

C. Spending a lot of it.

D. Moving it off shore.

It does not point to retirement planning, at least that I can see (and correct me if I'm wrong on that).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is RFG's Salary as DA. I pulled it from the Pennsylvania Manual, which is published. It is not private:

Year-------Amount

1997------$105,678

1998------$105,678*

1999------$108,898

2000------$108,898*

2001------$116,142

2002------$116,142*

2003------$120,225

2004------$120,225*

2005------$123,832

*May have had a slight raise for this year not recorded.

Now, that is gross, so RFG was not taking all that home.

Note that RFG was divorced in 2001. I also have confirmed that he complained about having to pay capital gains taxes, though that would be unusual in liquidating assets in a divorce.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

These are all parts of a puzzle, and to solve the case, we have to figure out how they fit together.

I'm looking at this again. Even if RFG ended his divorce with $15 K and put away $20 K a year in some type of traditional savings account or a CD, and was planning to retire, he should have had more that $1300 in interest in 2004 and 2005.

 

[Trackergd]

And, if it was foul play, it was something that got him to Lewisburg that:

A. Caused him not to leave a paper or electronic record of the purpose.

B. Caused him not to tell anyone the purpose.

The potential list of causes for this scenario would be interesting.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The potential list of causes for this scenario would be interesting.

If you are asking:

First, we will have to make an assumption that may be false. That assumption is that this is foul play. If so:

1. RFG's trip was of a personal nature, which would not involve him telling the staff and would be done on a day off. He didn't tell PEF because:

A. It involved meeting a lover.

B. It involved meeting someone who would make PEF jealous, if she knew.

C. It was something not tied to his duties, but was illegal, or incredibly embarrassing.

2. RFG's trip was not of a personal nature but tied to his official duties. The only reason for these actions would be because he didn't want a record of this meeting and the only reason that he would not want a record is that he doesn't want LE to know about it.

This reason is bolstered a bit because RFG did not turn his cell phone one in Lewisburg, even to check his voice mail. He was out of the office all day and had been incommunicado since before lunch. Witnesses put him in Lewisburg after the close of business of the DA's Office. We know his phone had voice mail and from what I've heard, he was big on checking messages. With that, he did not have be in contact with the office 24/7. He could check messages periodically.

Had RFG checked, the phone would have had to have been on, and it would have pinged off the towers in the area where he checked it. LE would have started the search at that point.

Even if he was meeting a lover, RFG could have checked. PEF would have no way of knowing what cell towers the phone pinged off of, even if she did some serious snooping. LE could, if they checked his records as part of an investigation.

Now, if you do not eliminate the other options, it can be explained in the context of either of those.

 

[Trackergd]

I can't poke any holes in either 1 or 2. Any variation of those two (to me) puts it in Suicide or Walkaway.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am not happy about 1 C. or 2, and there is no direct evidence to point to either.

The failure to check voice mail can be easily explained in the context of walkaway or suicide.

 

[BigCat]

I can't poke any holes in either 1 or 2. Any variation of those two (to me) puts it in Suicide or Walkaway.

To me, if this hypothetical meeting was related to illegal or unethical behavior on RFG's part, then that would increase the chances of foul play. Statistically speaking, he was at low risk to be victim of homicide. Now, throw in criminal involvement and his chances increase dramatically.

 

[MissJ]

Here is RFG's Salary as DA. I pulled it from the Pennsylvania Manual, which is published. It is not private:

Year-------Amount

1997------$105,678

1998------$105,678*

1999------$108,898

2000------$108,898*

2001------$116,142

2002------$116,142*

2003------$120,225

2004------$120,225*

2005------$123,832

*May have had a slight raise for this year not recorded.

Now, that is gross, so RFG was not taking all that home.

Note that RFG was divorced in 2001. I also have confirmed that he complained about having to pay capital gains taxes, though that would be unusual in liquidating assets in a divorce.

People can and do spend that kind of income without saving.

 

[SeekingJana]

People can and do spend that kind of income without saving.

Absolutely, and income higher than that.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

People can and do spend that kind of income without saving.

Yes, and they usually have something to show for it, like an expensive car, expensive house, boat, jewelery... .

 

[J. J. in Phila]

To me, if this hypothetical meeting was related to illegal or unethical behavior on RFG's part, then that would increase the chances of foul play. Statistically speaking, he was at low risk to be victim of homicide. Now, throw in criminal involvement and his chances increase dramatically.

Yes, it would.

There is no evidence of criminal activity that would involve RFG's job, or involve him going to Lewisburg for a criminal purpose.

In theory, for instance, any DA could blackmail people, for example. If RFG had, where is all the blackmail money? The low assets work both ways.

 

[SeekingJana]

Yes, and they usually have something to show for it, like an expensive car, expensive house, boat, jewelery... .

Yes. I hadn't really thought of it that way but you're right. I guess I truly do " Carpe Diem",

 

[SeekingJana]

Yes, it would.

There is no evidence of criminal activity that would involve RFG's job, or involve him going to Lewisburg for a criminal purpose.

In theory, for instance, any DA could blackmail people, for example. If RFG had, where is all the blackmail money? The low assets work both ways.

I don't know anything about the prison in Lewisburg. No reason to know, I thought.
But-- could some of this go back to the info we DID discuss when Ray's case was a featured case? I can't quote the conversations word for word, but it was said, not proven, but said, that he liked, or was entering, or was wanting to enter into a relationship with a young blonde woman. She was described as a former defendant in his court room. Apparently, to say " That's where or how they met".

IF SHE was not convicted of a crime, which was my understanding at the time, isn't it possible that the male co-defendant was? Again, I don't know what kind of prison Lewisburg has, but what if the convicted person had made subtle, just out of the reach of LE overtures to the woman and perhaps she had come to Ray with it? IDK for certain that this happened, but it was said that her former BF went to prison. If I was in a situation where I felt protective of a person, I would probably go to the source and tell them to stop. Also, Ray could have spoken with the warden at the prison to let him know that there was a potential problem with outside communication going to this woman.
It's not an " official" thing if the incarcerated guy was smart enough to use language which is within boundaries but had meaning to the woman... sometimes, a couple or a former couple will have certain keywords or phrases that mean something only to them. If the woman was afraid but Ray could not find a legal way to stop the messages ( however they were being sent), then he could have made 2 visits there. couldn't he? Both as warnings.. Man to man.. not as a DA in another county..

To understand this takes understanding of a gray area. It's not a black or white issue. People do say things or send unwanted attention to people who used to be in their life but got out. People can get away with saying a lot unless it's an overt threat.. which I am saying it wasn't. There was just enough to make Ray stop off and have a little chat..
IF I had not read about the blonde young lady defendant or witness who wasn't prosecuted and whom Ray was said to be smitten with, I wouldn't even think of him being near a prison. But there was court contact and there was a man involved, and he was said to have been given a guilty sentence. That's all I really know about the legal aspects. We discussed the woman in more depth, but not by name. I do not know or remember her entire name. I do remember her first name only.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Honestly, except for the woman reported by Ivy Butterworth, I do not recall any blonde woman, and I have read through the old threads.

I doubt if RFG could have gotten into a federal penitentiary without a record being kept by the institution. They don't just let you stroll in.

Yes, RFG could have talked to the warden, but the warden would have remembered it; a call, as opposed to a personal visit, is more likely, as would be an e-mail or letter.

 

[BigCat]

I just heard Robin Williams died of an apparent suicide. His last tweet was a happy birthday wish to his daughter and a link to a photo of them together when she was a child.

http://instagram.com/p/rIlM1LKuwr/?modal=true

 

[SeekingJana]

I guess this brings back thoughts about suicide in general, and questions of whether a suicide ended Ray's life, specifically.
But-as we were discussing in the thread about Robin, so often we see musical genius or acting genius, or this unique Robin Williams had to always be " ON"... but truth be told, so many very artistic and performance arts stars are actually experiencing undiagnosed Bi-Polar Depression... I can't say if or that the majority of them " suffer" because their hypomanic phases produce so much noteworthy material.
As far as I know, except maybe for one unplanned road trip to Cleveland, Ray showed no signs of being either manic or hypomanic. He could have been in a Major Depression, however.
Maybe we need to give suicide a deeper look-- but there's little to go on, IMO.

Just thinking here--If I was going to kill myself, I wouldn't care where my car was parked or if my cell phone was on or off. Or if the dog had been let out or fed..

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It could explain why he didn't check his messages.

 

[BigCat]

I guess this brings back thoughts about suicide in general, and questions of whether a suicide ended Ray's life, specifically.
But-as we were discussing in the thread about Robin, so often we see musical genius or acting genius, or this unique Robin Williams had to always be " ON"... but truth be told, so many very artistic and performance arts stars are actually experiencing undiagnosed Bi-Polar Depression... I can't say if or that the majority of them " suffer" because their hypomanic phases produce so much noteworthy material.
As far as I know, except maybe for one unplanned road trip to Cleveland, Ray showed no signs of being either manic or hypomanic. He could have been in a Major Depression, however.
Maybe we need to give suicide a deeper look-- but there's little to go on, IMO.

Just thinking here--If I was going to kill myself, I wouldn't care where my car was parked or if my cell phone was on or off. Or if the dog had been let out or fed..

BBM

Being an elected official could not have been conducive to RFG coming forward and seeking help, if he was suffering from depression. It would have certainly been used against him by his political opponents, if not directly, then certainly indirectly. So he had every reason to conceal any feelings of depression.

JMO