PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM

Being an elected official could not have been conducive to RFG coming forward and seeking help, if he was suffering from depression. It would have certainly been used against him by his political opponents, if not directly, then certainly indirectly. So he had every reason to conceal any feelings of depression.

JMO

He was not going to be running for anything or practicing law. I could understand it earlier, and it could have formed a pattern, but in 2004-05, there was not a political or professional need to do it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A new article on Centre County missing person's cases, with a few paragraphs on RFG: http://www.centredaily.com/2014/08/12/4301119/centre-countys-missing-persons.html?sp=/99/264/&ihp=1

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM

Being an elected official could not have been conducive to RFG coming forward and seeking help, if he was suffering from depression. It would have certainly been used against him by his political opponents, if not directly, then certainly indirectly. So he had every reason to conceal any feelings of depression.

JMO

Okay, you got me thinking.

What if RFG was having psychological problems, and was seeking treatment. If he found it embarrassing, he could go out of town, to Lewisburg. Why would he hide that from PEF?

 

[SeekingJana]

BBM

Being an elected official could not have been conducive to RFG coming forward and seeking help, if he was suffering from depression. It would have certainly been used against him by his political opponents, if not directly, then certainly indirectly. So he had every reason to conceal any feelings of depression.

JMO

JMO, but I'm sorry, you're wrong about a person's position, that is, their employment in their elected career stopping them from seeking help.
I have admitted senators, physicians, attorneys, judges,very famous country singers and many rock stars, models, pregnant women, my son's pediatrician, AND the administrator of the hospital to a psych. unit. Sometimes, with the dual diagnosis of substance abuse and major depression.
Mental illness and. or substance abuse stopped being a stigma with increased confidentiality, with HIPAA, with limited access to the in-patients at any time.. If a family member visited, they visited their family member in a special visitation room away from the patient units. They were never in contact with any other clients nor did they know their names. HIPAA LAWS.

 

[SeekingJana]

Okay, you got me thinking.

What if RFG was having psychological problems, and was seeking treatment. If he found it embarrassing, he could go out of town, to Lewisburg. Why would he hide that from PEF?

Because she had no need to know.. By all accounts, he was a very private person. Maybe the love wasn't as strong as some of us have been led to believe. I've always thought there was a reason Karen Arnold used the term "Paramour" for PF.

 

[SeekingJana]

In 2005, what kind of medical care was available in Lewisburg? Were their practicing psychiatric specialists in the town or nearby?
He drove how many miles?
IF he had been put on an anti-depressant in the weeks when Patty said he was sleeping a lot, the somnolence could be due to the medication. Almost all of them can sedate in the first few weeks of treatment.

 

[BigCat]

JMO, but I'm sorry, you're wrong about a person's position, that is, their employment in their elected career stopping them from seeking help.
I have admitted senators, physicians, attorneys, judges,very famous country singers and many rock stars, models, pregnant women, my son's pediatrician, AND the administrator of the hospital to a psych. unit. Sometimes, with the dual diagnosis of substance abuse and major depression.
Mental illness and. or substance abuse stopped being a stigma with increased confidentiality, with HIPAA, with limited access to the in-patients at any time.. If a family member visited, they visited their family member in a special visitation room away from the patient units. They were never in contact with any other clients nor did they know their names. HIPAA LAWS.

Not really sure why you're saying I'm wrong. I never suggested prominent people never seek help for depression, but clearly there are some people who don't seek help because of their position. RFG could have been one of them.

 

[MissJ]

Okay, you got me thinking.

What if RFG was having psychological problems, and was seeking treatment. If he found it embarrassing, he could go out of town, to Lewisburg. Why would he hide that from PEF?

Many people go out of town for treatment. They do not want anyone to see them going into the psychiatrists office or run into neighbors there. Many do not tell their loved ones as some people still think of mental illness as a character weakness.

 

[MissJ]

In 2005, what kind of medical care was available in Lewisburg? Were their practicing psychiatric specialists in the town or nearby?
He drove how many miles?
IF he had been put on an anti-depressant in the weeks when Patty said he was sleeping a lot, the somnolence could be due to the medication. Almost all of them can sedate in the first few weeks of treatment.

Very true and risk of suicide is high in the first weeks of treatment.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yet another two articles on RFG, that are just summaries:

http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/vanished-the-story-of-ray-frank-gricar,1460273/


http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/in...y_gricars_mysterious_disa.html#incart_m-rpt-1

I wonder why there is this sudden activity, though it is welcome.

There were suggestions that something came in regarding 1998 came in to LE about two years ago, and I wonder if it has anything to do with it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In 2005, what kind of medical care was available in Lewisburg? Were their practicing psychiatric specialists in the town or nearby?
He drove how many miles?
IF he had been put on an anti-depressant in the weeks when Patty said he was sleeping a lot, the somnolence could be due to the medication. Almost all of them can sedate in the first few weeks of treatment.

Yes, at least today there are about 7 psychiatrist in about a 5 mile radius. There is a hospital nearby, within 2 miles. McKnight's witness saw him a block away from the hospital.

It would have been difficult, if it was long term regular treatment, to hide it from PEF, especially if he was getting it in Lewisburg. If it just starting, that would not be an immediate issue.

He could have been embarrassed about it.

 

[BigCat]

Yes, at least today there are about 7 psychiatrist in about a 5 mile radius. There is a hospital nearby, within 2 miles. McKnight's witness saw him a block away from the hospital.

It would have been difficult, if it was long term regular treatment, to hide it from PEF, especially if he was getting it in Lewisburg. If it just starting, that would not be an immediate issue.

PEF was aware of his brother's suicide. Maybe he didn't want to alarm her. I could see a man thinking that way, especially a man of an older generation.

He could have been embarrassed about it.

Yes, I think he could have been embarrassed about it, even if he wasn't running for office again.

 

[Hbgchick]

Because she had no need to know.. By all accounts, he was a very private person. Maybe the love wasn't as strong as some of us have been led to believe. I've always thought there was a reason Karen Arnold used the term "Paramour" for PF.

I have felt this way all along. No offense to anyone, but I have been around many couples where one is much more vested in the relationship than the other.

 

[Hbgchick]

I wonder why there is this sudden activity, though it is welcome.

There were suggestions that something came in regarding 1998 came in to LE about two years ago, and I wonder if it has anything to do with it.

Thought the same thing.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There was something slightly new on this article.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/vanished-the-story-of-ray-frank-gricar,1460273/

While authorities have not yet solved the mysterious case, it is under a fresh review. In February, Pennsylvania State Police became the lead investigating agency, taking over from the Bellefonte Police Department.

Since then, there have been several alleged Gricar sightings in other states that investigators have followed up on, but they could not be confirmed, according to Trooper Jeff Petucci, state police spokesperson.

They are looking for a live RFG, not a corpse, at least with these sightings. Interesting.

There was some speculation that the PSP took the case because they thought it was foul play. Apparently not so.

 

[SeekingJana]

Not really sure why you're saying I'm wrong. I never suggested prominent people never seek help for depression, but clearly there are some people who don't seek help because of their position. RFG could have been one of them.

That's NOT what you said. You said " Being an elected official could not have been conducive to RFG coming forward and seeking help, if he was suffering from depression. It would have certainly been used against him by his political opponents, if not directly, then certainly indirectly. So he had every reason to conceal any feelings of depression."

NOT the words of a person who thinks Ray had mental health care, buddy.

 

[SeekingJana]

There was something slightly new on this article.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/local-news/vanished-the-story-of-ray-frank-gricar,1460273/

While authorities have not yet solved the mysterious case, it is under a fresh review. In February, Pennsylvania State Police became the lead investigating agency, taking over from the Bellefonte Police Department.

Since then, there have been several alleged Gricar sightings in other states that investigators have followed up on, but they could not be confirmed, according to Trooper Jeff Petucci, state police spokesperson.

They are looking for a live RFG, not a corpse, at least with these sightings. Interesting.

There was some speculation that the PSP took the case because they thought it was foul play. Apparently not so.

I don't think that the reported sightings mean they think he's alive. It means they check out potential eyewitness accounts. I mean, in the absence of proof of death, they can't hand-wave the alleged sightings.
How many years do you think LE looked for a live Jimmy Hoffa in " sightings"? Many years.

 

[Trackergd]

Since 1988 I have run down about twelve Lauren Jackson sightings. I can only imagine how many come in for a high profile individaul.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't think that the reported sightings mean they think he's alive. It means they check out potential eyewitness accounts. I mean, in the absence of proof of death, they can't hand-wave the alleged sightings.
How many years do you think LE looked for a live Jimmy Hoffa in " sightings"? Many years.

If they really thought it was foul play, and were relatively sure, they would not be checking out other states. When the looked for Hoffa, they dug things up.

Interestingly, in other cases, they have been a bit more open including discussing murder. They may say, **We rule nothing out,** but they look at things. Cindy Song is an example from the same county. They are matching up DNA and talk about that; it is because they think she is dead. In RFG's case, they are looking at sightings. That does not rule out murder, but that isn't the focus. It doesn't mean they are right.

Now, why are suddenly three stories in one day, with nothing new, except for that tidbit?

 

[BigCat]

That's NOT what you said. You said " Being an elected official could not have been conducive to RFG coming forward and seeking help, if he was suffering from depression. It would have certainly been used against him by his political opponents, if not directly, then certainly indirectly. So he had every reason to conceal any feelings of depression."

NOT the words of a person who thinks Ray had mental health care, buddy.

Ok. Whatever you say, pal.