PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[Trackergd]

I just got around to reading the Deadspin article. No, I am not going to accuse SuperSmith of rolling out the Renolds Wrap. I will say it is somewhat interesting. You could go off in a million tangents with the information (if the article was not "fluffed" for effect), and since they already did a FIA, it saves us that task.

http://deadspin.com/5890077/what-is...ecute-jerry-sandusky-in-1998-probably-nothing

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully Snipped.

So if RFG tossed the hard drive, who tossed the laptop? Someone else who knew what was on it and was not aware that RFG had tossed the hard drive and was worried about the data the computer contained?

That would suggest that A)The computer contained data that involved more individuals than only RFG, B)There is one or more individuals involved in RFG going missing and C)Suicide could go lower on the list.

One possible scenario is that RFg tossed the drive, in order to destroy the data on it. He then met someone, and for some reason, took the laptop with him (minus the drive). As Jana pointed out, correctly, in a previous thread, RFG would not have been worried about the Mini being broken into, because he left the cell in there.

It is a weak theory.

 

[Ozoner]

I periodically read articles about Gricar on Deadspin after the Penn State news broke, then later I saw his Disappeared on Netflix.

Netflix recently added FBI Files (or something to that effect), a true crime docu series from the '90s and there is an episode where Gricar is interviewed for a case. He would later be part of one those shows himself. It made me so sad to see him on FBI Files.

I'm not sure which episode you watched, but Gricar was the one who prosecuted the killer of Dawn Marie Birnbaum, whose murder was one of the cases covered by that show. Regardless of how he disappeared, Gricar will always be a hero in my book for getting that conviction.

 

[Ozoner]

Respectfully Snipped.

So if RFG tossed the hard drive, who tossed the laptop? Someone else who knew what was on it and was not aware that RFG had tossed the hard drive and was worried about the data the computer contained?

That would suggest that A)The computer contained data that involved more individuals than only RFG, B)There is one or more individuals involved in RFG going missing and C)Suicide could go lower on the list.

Maybe someone—Gricar or whoever made him disappear—tossed the hard drive early on, thinking it would be found quickly, in order to provide more fake evidence of a suicide. Since it wasn't found right away, maybe the person then went back & tossed the computer, knowing that it would be found sooner or later because of its larger size.

 

[thesiren]

I'm not sure which episode you watched, but Gricar was the one who prosecuted the killer of Dawn Marie Birnbaum, whose murder was one of the cases covered by that show. Regardless of how he disappeared, Gricar will always be a hero in my book for getting that conviction.

I am sure that was it.

Obv this was years before his disappearance but I feel he was intelligent, secure and resourceful.

I do not think he committed suicide at all. He either took off because he 100% had to and feared for his safety (I don't think he'd leave his SO otherwise) or he was killed. I also think the laptop was dumped after the fact. Why bother destroying the computer if you're dead?

 

[wijg]

awfully quiet here...

Let's take a quick survey... it appears to me that Ray was either never in Lewisburg, or he was there briefly before getting into another car. Who else agrees?

 

[SuperSmith]

I think that is highly probable considering his scent was merely found in the parking lot. For me the scent out weighs the ridiculous sighting from those that never knew him.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

awfully quiet here...

Let's take a quick survey... it appears to me that Ray was either never in Lewisburg, or he was there briefly before getting into another car. Who else agrees?

At the risk of sounding like Bill Clinton, that depends of what the definition of "briefly" is.

From what has been released he was there between 12:15 PM and 2:30 PM on 4/15/05 for a minimum of an hour. He was also across from or in the SOS between 5:00 PM and 6:00 PM.

Now that would give him enough time to drive back to Bellefonte and be spotted by Fenton/Grine at 3:00 PM.

He may have been there for about a half hour on 4/16 between 11:30 AM and noon.

I wish the police had released a time line for the witnesses.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think that is highly probable considering his scent was merely found in the parking lot. For me the scent out weighs the ridiculous sighting from those that never knew him.

Several witnesses saw him where his scent was detected and where the Mini was found.

 

[Sutton]

awfully quiet here...

Let's take a quick survey... it appears to me that Ray was either never in Lewisburg, or he was there briefly before getting into another car. Who else agrees?

So are the options

1. Never there
2. There only long enough to change cars (less than 30 min)
3. There longer than 30 minutes, possibly there for a few days

I think he was there, as there were the sightings, cell ping in that direction, scent dogs, car was there, laptop was there, Map Quest directions (yep, last 3 could be part of a set-up).

I think he was there, probably Friday and Saturday, just because there were 10ish sightings (that we know of), some of whom gave details that support it actually being Ray.

Can you narrow your theory down--there briefly or not at all?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just to be clear, at least two witnesses put him in the car, in the parking lot, where the bloodhound found his scent, on 4/15/05 sat around 5:30 PM.

 

[wijg]

So are the options

1. Never there
2. There only long enough to change cars (less than 30 min)
3. There longer than 30 minutes, possibly there for a few days

I think he was there, as there were the sightings, cell ping in that direction, scent dogs, car was there, laptop was there, Map Quest directions (yep, last 3 could be part of a set-up).

I think he was there, probably Friday and Saturday, just because there were 10ish sightings (that we know of), some of whom gave details that support it actually being Ray.

Can you narrow your theory down--there briefly or not at all?

If I'm not mistaken, the last confirmed cell phone ping puts him somewhere around Madisonburg before the cell was turned off.

 

[Trackergd]

If I'm not mistaken, the last confirmed cell phone ping puts him somewhere around Madisonburg before the cell was turned off.

Which puts him on RT 192, the direct route from Bellefonte to Lewisburg.

 

[Sutton]

If I'm not mistaken, the last confirmed cell phone ping puts him somewhere around Madisonburg before the cell was turned off.

You are right. I included the ping because it generally supports Ray headed in the direction of Lewisburg. But it could generally support many other destinations as well. I should not have included that in my argument.

 

[Trackergd]

My theory is that RFG went to Lewisburg for a short time, dumped the drive (but possibly not the laptop) in the river from somewhere upstream of the bridge, possibly met/picked up/dropped off someone either in Lewisburg or somewhere along RT 192 and was back in Bellefonte by 3:00 where he was seen by Fenton.

1. It fits with all the alleged witness reports.
2. It explains the trip to Raystown lake where he ran into someone who knew him, but did not dump the hard drive, hence the trip to Lewisburg, the same distance as Raytstown Lake.
3. Explains why there was no body in the river to find.
4. Explains why the drive was found upstream from the bridge (probably thrown in from the park or near the SOS).
5. Explains why there was no suicide note (at least not for jumping from the bridge into that particular river).
6. Fits with the direct route from Bellefonte to Lewisburg and back.
7. Fits with the cell phone ping in Madisonburg and the sighting in Centre Hall.
8. Fits with the detected scent by the dogs.
9. Explains why the Mini was left in Lewisburg...to throw off searchers.

I still feel that RFG left from Bellefonte in an as yet not identified vehicle. Lewisburg was just a side trip for dumping the drive and a possible meeting.

The laptop could have been dumped at a later date by a confederate, someone who cared to protect RFG's reputation, the person responsible for his going missing or a group or agency wanting to make sure the data never saw the light of day.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Madisonburg is where the cell coverage cut out. It was to the west of Madisonburg, very close to Centre Hall.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped, as always.

My theory is that RFG went to Lewisburg for a short time, dumped the drive (but possibly not the laptop) in the river from somewhere upstream of the bridge, possibly met/picked up/dropped off someone either in Lewisburg or somewhere along RT 192 and was back in Bellefonte by 3:00 where he was seen by Fenton.

When I first did the timeline in 2008, I tried to see if maybe the Saturday witnesses got the wrong day or if there was something that would conflict with the Fenton/Grine sighting. I was attempting to rule out this sighting. I could not rule out either.

The laptop could have been dumped at a later date by a confederate, someone who cared to protect RFG's reputation, the person responsible for his going missing or a group or agency wanting to make sure the data never saw the light of day.

BBM

This was the " buddy" scenario, which has nothing to do with (though that is starting to seem like it is a requirement for higher office in PA). RFG might have had private stuff on his laptop, not necessary and arranged with a friend to have it destroyed. That theory is weakened because the police have at least one witness who saw him in the Mini with the laptop in Lewisburg, and because of the searches on how to destroy a computer.

 

[SuperSmith]

And of course you, among others, assume it was Gricar driving the Mini at that point. It is possible that by gun point or other threat that he was forced to make that call.

 

[wijg]

JJ,

I'm having trouble finding where police said they had a witness that saw RFG messing with his laptop in his car while parked. Do you have a link?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ,

I'm having trouble finding where police said they had a witness that saw RFG messing with his laptop in his car while parked. Do you have a link?

It was in a blog, but it was undisclosed in the press (though it was hinted at for a few years).