PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[Trackergd]

Many have taken the opportunity to pin the Raystown trip as he was scouting out a place to ditch the laptop. I suggest that it was a recreational trip. It is no secret Ray liked boats and there is at least one pic of him floating around of him at a marina (don't know where though).

Interesting. I wonder if the opportunity to go on a boat ride was the lure that enticed RG to take a day off. I just can't work the laptop into that scenario, no matter how hard I try.

 

[Trackergd]

I understand why the assumption has been made that he was in Lewisburg but just want to point out it's very possible he wasn't.

Yes, it is possible that RG was never in Lewisburg. I am trying to figure out how many resources it would have taken to abduct RG in route, dispose of the laptop in the river and leave the car in the lot.

There is one point I disagree with others here in that I think someone else was in RG's car when it was finally left in Lewisburg. The ash and smell in the car have convinced me of this. I do not smoke. I cannot stand the smell of smoke in a vehicle and will not let anyone, including my SO smoke in my truck.

 

[SuperSmith]

I submit that the laptop was a decoy of sorts. What proof is there that Ray had the laptop with him or that it was he that tossed it? In 2009 JJ did a blog for the CC times that was a run down of the possible eyewitnesses of Gricar in Lewisburg. He mentioned no witness to RG in his Mini WITH the laptop. So either JJ was told additional eyewitness accounts after his blog or he is embellishing. That's your choice to decide. I have found no account online of reports that Gricar definitively had his laptop that day.

 

[SuperSmith]

The laptop IMO is the key to the whole case no matter the scenario you believe. I can't get passed the quote from Patty that the laptop was kept in the closet not being used because they had purchased a home computer in 2004. What would've made it so important to dispose the laptop in 2005? Obviously the laptop was not being used for walkaway planning or Patty wouldn't have stated it wasn't being used.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Interesting. I wonder if the opportunity to go on a boat ride was the lure that enticed RG to take a day off. I just can't work the laptop into that scenario, no matter how hard I try.

My undstanding is that boat rentals were not available until the weekend. The "season" was starting.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I submit that the laptop was a decoy of sorts. What proof is there that Ray had the laptop with him or that it was he that tossed it? In 2009 JJ did a blog for the CC times that was a run down of the possible eyewitnesses of Gricar in Lewisburg. He mentioned no witness to RG in his Mini WITH the laptop. So either JJ was told additional eyewitness accounts after his blog or he is embellishing. That's your choice to decide. I have found no account online of reports that Gricar definitively had his laptop that day.

I've been told of additional accounts. I've also noted that there various comments about RFG having the laptop on the trip/in Lewisburg.

 

[SuperSmith]

Thank you for clarifying that it was your opinion. For now, I must take that sighting off the board.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thank you for clarifying that it was your opinion. For now, I must take that sighting off the board.

No, that is not "opinion." The statements were from DZ and an old blog of PB's.

 

[SuperSmith]

DZ and PB never said, on record at least, that an eyewitness reported as seeing Ray Gricar with his laptop in Lewisburg. If that were true you certainly would've had that account in your blog in 2009 when you recited all the eyewitnesses.

 

[SuperSmith]

Not true. Boating is permitted year round. You must be thinking of trout and tourist season.

 

[Trackergd]

The laptop IMO is the key to the whole case no matter the scenario you believe. I can't get passed the quote from Patty that the laptop was kept in the closet not being used because they had purchased a home computer in 2004. What would've made it so important to dispose the laptop in 2005? Obviously the laptop was not being used for walkaway planning or Patty wouldn't have stated it wasn't being used.

Looking at the case in this direction, would you agree that it would have taken some heavy duty planning to plant the car and laptop? I can't see one person subduing RG, dispatching, disposing of the body then planting the mini and computer in Lewisburg. The other difficult thing to wrap my head around is how two or more people kept this a secret for so long? The planning would have taken a bit of time and a suitable lure would have to be crafted that would cause RG to drop everything and come. The fact he seemed "out of sorts" in the days leading up to his vanishing could suggest it was a "problem" lure rather than something he would enjoy. It would also necessitate bringing the laptop. In fairness, this is no more far fetched than some of the scenario's we have come up with.

 

[SuperSmith]

Oh yes either way I believe it's 90% likely this had heavy duty planning. While it would be easier with a group to accomplish the plan it would be a lot more inconspicuous if done by one or two.

It is also possible that the laptop was tossed at a later date which would've been an add on to the plan. My theory all along involves an improbable suspect(s) but I'm not ready to make that public.

 

[Trackergd]

Oh yes either way I believe it's 90% likely this had heavy duty planning. While it would be easier with a group to accomplish the plan it would be a lot more inconspicuous if done by one or two.

It is also possible that the laptop was tossed at a later date which would've been an add on to the plan. My theory all along involves an improbable suspect(s) but I'm not ready to make that public.

Nothing in RG's past criminal cases seems to rise to the level of killing a sitting DA. I suspect you have an event or case that you feel does. I have always wondered about someone close to him, perhaps a friend or associate. I also wonder if he was taking the laptop to take a deposition from a witness or whistle blower...and that was the lure and why he was "out of sorts".

 

[SuperSmith]

I have a couple coworkers on my radar for sure as they had the means, details of Rays routines, LE responses, knowledge of the laptop, possible access to all used computers, and possible knowledge he took the day off that Friday. There are also a couple of ADAs that later got into legal trouble. Both were on staff under Gricar. The Commisioners were no fan of Ray either. Think about the law book left behind for ADA Smith. If it wasn't Ray who left it there then who and why? Whomever left that book has direct knowledge of what happened. If it was for sure Ray who left the book and wanted Smith to know what to do in the event the DA is unable to perform the duties then I will subscribe to walkaway a lot easier. If it was Ray then it's foul play all the way.

 

[SuperSmith]

How do we know if he had a case that rose to that level? BPD refused to go back through his case mostly cuz of man power. I can think of several cases that could easily rise to a revenge killing but I'm not sure they could pull off the planning.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

DZ and PB never said, on record at least, that an eyewitness reported as seeing Ray Gricar with his laptop in Lewisburg. If that were true you certainly would've had that account in your blog in 2009 when you recited all the eyewitnesses.

They both made comments, such as “He [Mr. Gricar] made a conscious decision to go upstairs, take the laptop out of the case, get into his car and leave," from DZ on 10/29/06. PB indicated, in a blog, “To my knowledge, none of the witnesses said they saw him holding a laptop outside of his car," on 2/5/09. Oh, I mentioned both in a blog on the investigation (Part 15). DZ knew RFG had taken it because a witness saw him with it in the Mini; PB noted that no witness saw it outside of the Mini.

Now, I do not which witness it was, since we have many, though we can rule out the several that saw RFG exclusively outside the Mini.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not true. Boating is permitted year round. You must be thinking of trout and tourist season.

That refers to boat rentals, not if boating is permitted.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Nothing in RG's past criminal cases seems to rise to the level of killing a sitting DA. I suspect you have an event or case that you feel does. I have always wondered about someone close to him, perhaps a friend or associate. I also wonder if he was taking the laptop to take a deposition from a witness or whistle blower...and that was the lure and why he was "out of sorts".

He generallty would not take depositions; there would be a court reporter.

 

[SuperSmith]

Then it is settled. There was no reported eyewitness to Gricar having the laptop in Lewisburg.

BTW, at that point DZ was running with the assumption that Gricar had the laptop as you are here.

Thank you for the confirmation JJ!! I appreciate it as that now lowers my Walkaway percentages.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Then it is settled. There was no reported eyewitness to Gricar having the laptop in Lewisburg.

BTW, at that point DZ was running with the assumption that Gricar had the laptop as you are here.

Thank you for the confirmation JJ!! I appreciate it as that now lowers my Walkaway percentages.

No, there was a witness, but we don't know which one of the witnesses that it was.

DZ was operating on the report of the witness, as was PB.

We also do know of his interest in getting rid of the data on the laptop.