PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[J. J. in Phila]

Who said he had to shoot? Who says he didn't have a guy up in Seattle tailing Ray's daughter, and he let him know "you take one wrong turn, and she's dead. And don't even think about trying anything funny, because if I don't check in with him every hour, she's dead".

Because it is highly unlikely that they, and there would have to be at least two, would need to go to that effort. They could have shot him when he walked out of the house. I would also wonder why they would instruct RFG to dve into an area with no cell coverage.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

What passenger would shoot the driver?

i know i would not shoot the driver not untill I got to where I was going oh to be lured a way and set up for the fall

 

[Ozoner]

I've never heard of a case where someone tried to make a murder look like a suicide yet disposed of the body. Can anyone cite such a case?

It's entirely possible that someone killed Gricar, but if any deliberate staging was done, I'd wager that Gricar did it himself.

Right now I'm at:
5% foul play (deliberate murder)
5% accidental death that someone covered up
45% walk-away
45% suicide, not necessarily by drowning

Nothing can be ruled out, though. Maybe he drowned accidentally while trying to dispose of the laptop (<1% chance); maybe he had a stroke & wandered into the woods & died of exposure (<1% chance)—he wouldn't be the first one that happened to.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

I've never heard of a case where someone tried to make a murder look like a suicide yet disposed of the body. Can anyone cite such a case?

It's entirely possible that someone killed Gricar, but if any deliberate staging was done, I'd wager that Gricar did it himself.

Right now I'm at:
5% foul play (deliberate murder)
5% accidental death that someone covered up
45% walk-away
45% suicide, not necessarily by drowning

Nothing can be ruled out, though. Maybe he drowned accidentally while trying to dispose of the laptop (<1% chance); maybe he had a stroke & wandered into the woods & died of exposure (<1% chance)—he wouldn't be the first one that happened to.

well always first time for anything with all what was going on in centre county all them small circles of who knew what===== what better way to do a DA( in) trust was RG's down fall could it be a hate crime it would be a way to throw off everyone and it would be under everyone's nose and they would never except it i just wonder if PF and LG could ID RG at 2 feet or 25 feet or 50 foot or 100 feet or walking down the other side of the street or any body in bellefonte

 

[MissJ]

Eye witnesses are mostly inaccurate. I witnessed a crime at 100 feet away. When asked what the perp looked like I could describe his clothing, approx height and weight and hair length. Turned out I new the perp. Just didn't recognize him. Of course I had no need to make him fit a preconceived identity.

 

[MissJ]

My grandfather was a prosecutor. He made lots of enemies and frequently had death threats. He was never afraid though someone took a shot at him once.

My point is we can never know what was going on in RFG's life. We cannot determine that he was not in any danger. His job put him in harm's way.

 

[SuperSmith]

Where I'm from the Park has several baseball, softball, and soccer fields.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Eye witnesses are mostly inaccurate. I witnessed a crime at 100 feet away. When asked what the perp looked like I could describe his clothing, approx height and weight and hair length. Turned out I new the perp. Just didn't recognize him. Of course I had no need to make him fit a preconceived identity.

I disagree the eye witness testimony is "mostly inaccurate." There is a high error rate, per witness, of about 30%, but 70% of the time it is accurate. There are a number of factors.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My grandfather was a prosecutor. He made lots of enemies and frequently had death threats. He was never afraid though someone took a shot at him once.

My point is we can never know what was going on in RFG's life. We cannot determine that he was not in any danger. His job put him in harm's way.

Now many, however, are seriously threatened. There have been fewer than 20 prosecutors/former prosecutors murdered in the in the last century.

 

[SuperSmith]

Typical misread. Gunman forces the call. Then had him pull over. Not sure what you're getting at

 

[wijg]

Now many, however, are seriously threatened. There have been fewer than 20 prosecutors/former prosecutors murdered in the in the last century.

The number of of prosecutors murdered has nothing to do with the number of prosecutors who felt legitimately threatened, or were victims of assault, intimidation, or attempted murder. Those numbers would be significantly higher. Hell, off the top of my head I know of one attempted murder of a DA.... Youngstown, Christmas of '98 or '99 I believe it was.

 

[MissJ]

Now many, however, are seriously threatened. There have been fewer than 20 prosecutors/former prosecutors murdered in the in the last century.

Seriously? How would anyone know who is seriously threatened? I would say being shot at is a serious threat.

Please give a link for the figures you quote of the number of prosecutors killed in the last century.

 

[MissJ]

The number of of prosecutors murdered has nothing to do with the number of prosecutors who felt legitimately threatened, or were victims of assault, intimidation, or attempted murder. Those numbers would be significantly higher. Hell, off the top of my head I know of one attempted murder of a DA.... Youngstown, Christmas of '98 or '99 I believe it was.

Thanks for clarifying what I was attempting to say. I'd say my grandfather felt legitimately threatened. Unless we walk in their shoes no way can we know who feels threatened or intimidated.

 

[MissJ]

I disagree the eye witness testimony is "mostly inaccurate." There is a high error rate, per witness, of about 30%, but 70% of the time it is accurate. There are a number of factors.

My family is LE background. Homicide large eastern city and they would disagree with your opinion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Typical misread. Gunman forces the call. Then had him pull over. Not sure what you're getting at

Instead of making the call, why doesn't he just speed up and crash the car off the road, passenger side first? Why doesn't he floor it and halt right in from of the magistrate's office in Centre Hall?

Why would he believe that someone was tailing his daughter 2,000 away?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The number of of prosecutors murdered has nothing to do with the number of prosecutors who felt legitimately threatened, or were victims of assault, intimidation, or attempted murder. Those numbers would be significantly higher. Hell, off the top of my head I know of one attempted murder of a DA.... Youngstown, Christmas of '98 or '99 I believe it was.

More than 15 yeas ago one prosecutor was targeted. There are several thousand prosecutors in the US.

 

[wijg]

Instead of making the call, why doesn't he just speed up and crash the car off the road, passenger side first? Why doesn't he floor it and halt right in from of the magistrate's office in Centre Hall?

Why would he believe that someone was tailing his daughter 2,000 away?

Why do you assume he's in the passenger's seat? If I were holding a driver hostage, I'd sit in the back, especially because I wouldn't want him to get a clear look at my face. I'd also where a seatbelt, and I'd slash his seatbelt.

and with regards to threatening Lara... I take it you're not a parent JJ... if someone threatens your children, you don't even take the chance and assume they're bluffing. Because you'd never be able to live with yourself if they died and you survived. It would not be worth trying to call their bluff, because you'd rather be dead than have harm come to your children.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Seriously? How would anyone know who is seriously threatened? I would say being shot at is a serious threat.

Please give a link for the figures you quote of the number of prosecutors killed in the last century.

Can the person carry it. A person who threatens to rape then kill a prosecutor, cut her up, and flush her down the toilet in his jail cell will not be a serious threat. Someone threatened to do that in Centre County several years ago. Disturbing, absolutely, but no way to carry it out.

The last count I have 16, with two recent additions, since about 1900. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/01/14-prosecutors-have-been-killed_n_2995102.html

Several of those were murders committed during another crime where the murderer did not know he was killing a prosecutor. None were missing.

I think the murder rate for prosecutors is lower than for the general population.

 

[wijg]

More than 15 yeas ago one prosecutor was targeted. There are several thousand prosecutors in the US.

Yes, and how many DA's are there specifically along/around the mob infested I-80 corridor between Youngstown and New York?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We have actually discussed the murder rate of prosecutors before in relation to RFG.