PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[MissJ]

Very intriguing. Thank you for clarifying.

So there are people who know something about RFG's disappearance but won't talk? Hmmm
Sounds like some one wants to play fast and loose with the truth without being called on it.
Just throw out a rumor, have someone leak it but not reveal where it came from and sit back and see
who swallows it. Maybe get someone off the hook. Happened in the McStay case too. I'm not buying it. If your alleged source was telling the truth there'd be no reason to be secretive. RFG has been declared dead. There is no case.

 

[wijg]

I believe the laptop/harddrive was a plant.

1. Not proven beyond a doubt that Gricar was in Lewisburg.

2. The river was initially searched knowing the laptop was missing. They were not just looking for a body.

3. Both pieces were found in obvious locations that had been previously searched.

4. A second search was done and no hard drive found.

5. The names of the lucky finders of the laptop and hard drive have never been named.

6. The pieces were found after the case grew cold. These finds swayed everyone to walkaway or suicide.

Agree with all of this.

 

[MissJ]

Anyone who leaks alleged information to someone who has a blog, yet doesn't want to be outed must have questionable motives. Spreading rumors to throw others off the trail? Yet not be blamed for the rumor. UmHum.

 

[SuperSmith]

This is not the first time, by far, that a certain poster has reported that they were privy to information that they could not share their source or support it with links.

Bugs Bunny is real. I have a source.

 

[howardstern]

It's a shame, this thread has become more of a pissing match than anything resembling a civil conversation. The childish rhetoric is pretty disappointing; the discussion here isn't anything close to the previous threads on the topic. The pretentious, condescending tone some of you have been carrying for the past few months has got to go.

If you don't want to believe J.J, that's fine, but when you say;

But let's stop the bickering, because that's not the road I intended to go down. Let's get back to the discussion of the case.

Make sure you practice what you preach.

 

[SuperSmith]

MissJ I am in love with your writing

 

[SuperSmith]

Howard, for some of us, we have grown weary of the constant push of opinion as fact! This is not to disrespect anyone's theory but it is important to be clear, accurate, and post true facts of the case and not opinion as fact. Being that you are relatively new to the case I don't expect you to understand but being our physiologist isn't helping either. Ignore our bantering about and post something for us to chew on.

 

[MissJ]

MissJ I am in love with your writing

Why thank you. I love your posts.

 

[MissJ]

The rules here (websleuths) are if you can't provide a link its just rumor. Just because some don't follow rules doesn't mean the ones of us who do are in a pi**ng contest. We want the REAL story out there.

 

[howardstern]

Being that you are relatively new to the case I don't expect you to understand but being our physiologist isn't helping either. Ignore our bantering about and post something for us to chew on.

Are you trying to prove my point? This is exactly what I'm talking about when I said the pretentious, condescending attitude needs to stop. How would you know if I'm new to the case? Because of my join date? Really? Being "new to a case" has nothing to do with having the ability to conduct a civil, progressive discussion without it turning into a childish pissing match for 5+ pages. As I said, you don't want to believe J.J? Take your own advice and "ignore his banter".

 

[howardstern]

The rules here (websleuths) are if you can't provide a link its just rumor. Just because some don't follow rules doesn't mean the ones of us who do are in a pi**ng contest. We want the REAL story out there.

Well that's one way to put a spin on it. Following rules or not, maybe you should just report J.J and move on if you feel so strongly about it? Surely if you guys are willing to spend 5+ pages insulting and berating the guy, you care enough to contact the moderators, right?

Posting baseless theories isn't really getting to the "real story", you understand that too, right?

 

[MissJ]

Nothing wrong in asking for clarification of FACTS vs rumors.

 

[MissJ]

Well that's one way to put a spin on it. Following rules or not, maybe you should just report J.J and move on if you feel so strongly about it? Surely if you guys are willing to spend 5+ pages insulting and berating the guy, you care enough to contact the moderators, right?

Posting baseless theories isn't really getting to the "real story", you understand that too, right?

We all have theories. But we post it as opinion not as fact. We are permitted to post opinions here.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There is no witness to Gricar messing with the laptop in Lewisburg. Clearly an embellishment, among many others, that has been made to fit a personal theory or one that is being forced upon the public.

No, there is a witness, but not outside of the Mini (so far as I know).

 

[SuperSmith]

No I won't ignore JJs postings without proof. Opinion w/o fact clouds the case as it has done in many other cases.

So what is your contribution Mr. Stern? Is that polite enough for your sensibilities? What is your theory and why?

Btw disproving someone's "opinion as fact" is par for the course. If you had a relative missing and had a poster doing the "opinion as fact" which takes you and others away from a factual investigation how would you feel then? In this instance JJ has had a media outlet to print his blogs for years. This has given many the false pretense that he is the goto Gricar guru.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The rules here (websleuths) are if you can't provide a link its just rumor. Just because some don't follow rules doesn't mean the ones of us who do are in a pi**ng contest. We want the REAL story out there.

Actually, I did provide several sources, with dates of publication. Some of them are no longer on-line.

 

[SuperSmith]

JJ, are you suggesting now that this "eyewitness" that supposedly saw Gricar fiddling with laptop was actually INSIDE the Mini while Gricar had the laptop?????

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, are you suggesting now that this "eyewitness" that supposedly saw Gricar fiddling with laptop was actually INSIDE the Mini while Gricar had the laptop?????

I didn't use the word "fiddling."

I said someone saw RFG inside the Mini with his laptop. Another person, a few years ago used that word and said he got it from LE.

I'll leave it as inside the Mini with the laptop. I will also note that multiple witnesses put him in the Mini at various points on 4/15, so it could be a counted witness, not a new one.

 

[MissJ]

Wow.....and it gets deeper.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Actually, DZ's comment was posted here, contemporaneously: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ntral-Pennsylvania-Part-2&p=864688#post864688

Now, it is clear that DZ knew, at that point, RFG had the Mini with him. I just added the information on how he knew it.