PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[J. J. in Phila]

I apologize for the true O/T on this thread, but I think several of you here may have followed this other case:

What was the name of the lady who was found in the bathtub a few years ago, in PA, who was the girlfriend(? Maybe?) of some prominent lawyer or ? I wanted to look up her thread here at WS and can't remember her name or whether it happened in Pittsburgh or ? But I think/hope some of you will remember? Thanks! Just wondered what ever was found out, if anything.

Julia Law, Philadelphia, death ruled accidental. Tox report indicated she was drinking heavily (though that report was leaked).

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Julia Law, Philadelphia, death ruled accidental. Tox report indicated she was drinking heavily (though that report was leaked).

Yes, thank you very much!

 

[wijg]

Two things quite interesting about the article.

First, I Googled "Veteran's Park" in Dayton. It took me more than a mile north of the Stewart Street. So that article, even if it was known, would not have helped someone unfamiliar with the site of Roy's Suicide.

Once again... attention to detail.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Once again... attention to detail.

View attachment 78789

Again, it would not come up as such on Google Maps, it you Google Veteran's Park. It is referred to as Vetarans Street and is rather long. It is also intersected by several bridges: https://www.google.com/maps/place/V...2!3m1!1s0x884086adf9bda71f:0x478076c213032325

I'm not sure if your latest post shows the correct location, because there is no second bridge, like there was in Lewisburg. Want to try again?

I also noticed that there was no answer to my question if that newspaper article was online in 2004-05 and current link to it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The first attachment is a broader map of the area wijg posted, centered on the Stewart Street Bridge. Note that, unlike Lewisburg, there is no second bridge with 2000 feet of that bridge, and, unlike Lewisburg, neither bridge is a railway bridge.

The second attachment is to the bridge (US Route 35) about 2500 feet north of the Steward Street Brigde. While the is another bridge close to it, and in a similar configuration to Lewisburg's bridges, neither is a railroad bridge.

Also note that the highway running parallel to the river is "Veterans." It is the same highway that runs up to the Steward Street. There is no "Veterans Park" listed as such.



I submit that it would be impossible from the information available in 2005, even with a nine year old news clipping from an out of town newspaper to determine which bridge Roy's car was parked near, and that the Stewart Street Bridge is not similar to the Lewisburg bridge.

It would be possible for someone familiar with were the car was found to see a parallel, if one actually exists, but unless there was a murderer who was familiar with Roy's suicide to the point of being there at the time, the location of RFG's car in Lewisburg was not to draw a parallel with Roy's death.

Details do matter, but so does the scale of the map.

We still have the question of if the newspaper clipping was available on-line in 2004-05.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

Once again... attention to detail.

View attachment 78789

Hey wijg that video or pictures you posted on that other site which was in back of the court house was that from thursday night if so that tells me 2 things because I have never seen them pictures before if that is what he was wearing

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hey wijg that video or pictures you posted on that other site which was in back of the court house was that from thursday night if so that tells me 2 things because I have never seen them pictures before if that is what he was wearing

It is possible that he wasn't wearing the same exact clothing. RFG was wearing a blue pullover fleece. What shirt he was wearing under it is unknown.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

It is possible that he wasn't wearing the same exact clothing. RFG was wearing a blue pullover fleece. What shirt he was wearing under it is unknown.

Well Jj just what did everyone in lewisburg see him wearing is all I would like to know if it was just a blue fleece is that all they seen I dont think I have ever got or read any where what he was wearing did any one even see him even at the sos I am just looking for answers to what is the truth so I can x-it out not to be true

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well Jj just what did everyone in lewisburg see him wearing is all I would like to know if it was just a blue fleece is that all they seen I dont think I have ever got or read any where what he was wearing did any one even see him even at the sos I am just looking for answers to what is the truth so I can x-it out not to be true

I think the fleece was in some of the descriptions, but it is not exactly uncommon. He probably would have wrn a shirt underneath, but the style and color were not reported. Obviously, as the fleece is an outer garment, we don't know what the undergarment is.

I don't know the answer to "boxers or briefs" either.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

I think the fleece was in some of the descriptions, but it is not exactly uncommon. He probably would have wrn a shirt underneath, but the style and color were not reported. Obviously, as the fleece is an outer garment, we don't know what the undergarment is.

I don't know the answer to "boxers or briefs" either.

Well I did not ask about his boxers or briefs I did here about that statement I think Sloane made which I could not understand that question...... on that day friday morning it was getting warmer the more east you went and I would think that fleece would get hotter on any body quick just saying do you think LE would push the fleece as to say when they asked was the person you seen wearing a blue fleece garment see the weather would be a little cooler here in center and the temp would be warmer the more east you would go that is why I asked about the shirt color and what type

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well I did not ask about his boxers or briefs I did here about that statement I think Sloane made which I could not understand that question...... on that day friday morning it was getting warmer the more east you went and I would think that fleece would get hotter on any body quick just saying do you think LE would push the fleece as to say when they asked was the person you seen wearing a blue fleece garment see the weather would be a little cooler here in center and the temp would be warmer the more east you would go that is why I asked about the shirt color and what type

I was joking about the underwear. 4/15 was relatively cool and RFG might have had the fleece on all day. 4/16 reached well into the 60's if not hitting the 70's.

The temperatures iI have are a little bit to the south of where RFG was seen, so it might have slightly cooler in Bellefonte and Lewisburg, but probably only 2-3 degrees.

 

[wijg]

Hey wijg that video or pictures you posted on that other site which was in back of the court house was that from thursday night if so that tells me 2 things because I have never seen them pictures before if that is what he was wearing

Yes, that was from Thursday night.

For those who do not know what he's referring to, here are the pictures I posted elsewhere.

 

[wijg]

and the rest...

 

[snowleopard]

and the rest...

View attachment 78858View attachment 78859View attachment 78860View attachment 78861View attachment 78862

Thanks for the pictures!....I've never noticed before that he is looking camera right in each shot.....wonder what/who was there?

 

[wijg]

Thanks for the pictures!....I've never noticed before that he is looking camera right in each shot.....wonder what/who was there?

If you look at the first set of pictures, there's a jeep that pulled in right after RFG pulled in. On the video, they're so close together, it's almost as if the jeep was following him there. It appears the jeep parked to a spot on the far right just out of view from the camera, and I posit that this is what Gricar is looking at.

 

[Sutton]

Wijg, thanks for those pics.

Is that Jeep lifted (suspension lifted for extra ground clearance and attention)? Are those common there?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If you look at the first set of pictures, there's a jeep that pulled in right after RFG pulled in. On the video, they're so close together, it's almost as if the jeep was following him there. It appears the jeep parked to a spot on the far right just out of view from the camera, and I posit that this is what Gricar is looking at.

It didn't actually pull it. It cut across the parking lot. There is an exit on that side. You can see it going straight, not turning into a space.

And, no, it is not overly common. It would attract attention, and it looks like it attracted RFG's attention.

I still didn't hear an answer to my question of it the clipping posted appeared on-line in 2004-5.

Edit: "Exit" might be too strong of a term. The parking lot pavement goes out to the street, but it might not be an official exit. There is street parking in front of that. I would suspect there would be no cars parked in them after six.

 

[wijg]

Wijg, thanks for those pics.

Is that Jeep lifted (suspension lifted for extra ground clearance and attention)? Are those common there?

Yes... I ran it by my brother who used to be kind of a jeep nut back in the day, and he said it's most likely a Wrangler CJ or YJ from between 1991-1995, with a custom lift kit.

 

[wijg]

It didn't actually pull it. It cut across the parking lot.

You can't be certain of that.

First of all, it looks like it's turning right, and the street runs the opposite direction.


Second, it's be a tight squeeze at any hour of the day, thanks to the parking meters.


It may have been able to squeeze out the other side, but in my experience, courthouses and police stations don't make the best "cut through" spots as you're likely to get pulled over, and most people don't choose to cut through a parking lot when there's a chance they can't get out the other side.

Look at an aerial shot of the courthouse parking lot.


Note the blue-ish rectangular square at the south side of the lot. Note where the jeep is in relation to it as it is turning. If the jeep isn't trying to park, then it looks like it's steering right into a telephone pole.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You can't be certain of that.

First of all, it looks like it's turning right, and the street runs the opposite direction.
View attachment 78893

Second, it's be a tight squeeze at any hour of the day, thanks to the parking meters.
View attachment 78894

It may have been able to squeeze out the other side, but in my experience, courthouses and police stations don't make the best "cut through" spots as you're likely to get pulled over, and most people don't choose to cut through a parking lot when there's a chance they can't get out the other side.

Look at an aerial shot of the courthouse parking lot.
View attachment 78895

Note the blue-ish rectangular square at the south side of the lot. Note where the jeep is in relation to it as it is turning. If the jeep isn't trying to park, then it looks like it's steering right into a telephone pole.

Streetview shows the phone poll off to the side; there is one in the same position at the other entrance. I'm not sure if there are parking meters there. A pickup was in the way.

Coming out of the lot on that side it is a one way street, going eastward, away from the Courthouse. The Jeep would hang a left. Also note that there are not parking space lines in that position.

Getting something that size should be seen turning, even into the last space.

I doubt that the vehicle was following RFG. It isn't exactly inconspicuous.