PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[J. J. in Phila]

This link from Renner has some documents: https://drive.google.com/a/alumni.psu.edu/file/d/0B7_atAFvowRhOF9uTzgtNTFCYkk/view

Most of them have been posted, but there are a few were not that don't show too much.

For anyone interested, the redacted financial disclosure statements are under my profile.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Reiner turned up a lot of stuff on the Murray case but if he goes "walkway" on Gricar, I'm not going along for that ride.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved...rou/document_reveals_new_clues_in_ray_gricar/ james renner seems to have taken an interest.

it would be either RG +X= Y or RG + BBMW = Y as to reading the Comments from that post the Map Quest came up again as to Lewisburg I do believe RG was looking for a certain street to turn off on because it was not marked with a street sign his passenger might have all ready knew where to turn but not telling him - which would be a setup to get him there and he might still be in that location somewhere hidden in plain sight

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Reiner turned up a lot of stuff on the Murray case but if he goes "walkway" on Gricar, I'm not going along for that ride.

He has been fairly vocal on voluntary departure since Wiley and 20/20 Vision.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

it would be either RG +X= Y or RG + BBMW = Y as to reading the Comments from that post the Map Quest came up again as to Lewisburg I do believe RG was looking for a certain street to turn off on because it was not marked with a street sign his passenger might have all ready knew where to turn but not telling him - which would be a setup to get him there and he might still be in that location somewhere hidden in plain sight

It is possible that RFG was giving someone else directions. The thing is, he was looking at the route between Bellefonte and Lewisburg.

 

[Trackergd]

it would be either RG +X= Y or RG + BBMW = Y as to reading the Comments from that post the Map Quest came up again as to Lewisburg I do believe RG was looking for a certain street to turn off on because it was not marked with a street sign his passenger might have all ready knew where to turn but not telling him - which would be a setup to get him there and he might still be in that location somewhere hidden in plain sight

He was seen by a witness, alone, fiddling with "something" that we now believe was the computer, probably removing the hard-drive. He also spent time in the parking lot. If it were a setup or trap, I doubt he would have been seen in the lot and in the SOS alone. The only individual seen with him, and only for a brief time was the "mystery woman".

 

[Trackergd]

Reiner turned up a lot of stuff on the Murray case but if he goes "walkway" on Gricar, I'm not going along for that ride.

Not sure if you were with us at the time, I contacted Centre County and paid for copies of the financials. I did have an accountant working on her Forensic Accounting degree look into them. She did find them curious, however she left our employ so I could not dig deeper. I am trying to have a second accountant look at them along with other documents that JJ provided.

 

[Trackergd]

Renner has had a long term interest about this. He wrote a very good article, "The River's Edge," in November of 2005. Like RFG, Renner is from Cleveland.

What I find interesting is that suddenly, people are starting to talk about the case.

Probably because the Penn State / Sandusky mess is back in the news and folks are beginning to wonder.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Probably because the Penn State / Sandusky mess is back in the news and folks are beginning to wonder.

Blehar, of all people, was bringing up 1998. Sandusky is both a blessing and a curse to the Gricar case. It keeps RFG's name in the news, but then you have to look at linkage.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

It is possible that RFG was giving someone else directions. The thing is, he was looking at the route between Bellefonte and Lewisburg.

At some point when heading down 192 he crossed over onto 45 the passenger had to come from somewhere if not bellefonte then somewhere in the middle before 4 bells and before the so called phone call

 

[Trackergd]

At some point when heading down 192 he crossed over onto 45 the passenger had to come from somewhere if not bellefonte then somewhere in the middle before 4 bells and before the so called phone call

And he could have deviated off 192 onto sand mountain road on the far side of Halfway Lake (Raymond Winter State Park), where there appears to be a three pronged parking area, convenient for leaving a car for the day, continuing out sand mountain road would take one back onto 192.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And he could have deviated off 192 onto sand mountain road on the far side of Halfway Lake (Raymond Winter State Park), where there appears to be a three pronged parking area, convenient for leaving a car for the day, continuing out sand mountain road would take one back onto 192.

It would depend when. From what I have been able to piece together, RFG only had about a 15-30 minute, at most, to deviate from 192 between Centre Hall and Lewisburg.

 

[Trackergd]

It would depend when. From what I have been able to piece together, RFG only had about a 15-30 minute, at most, to deviate from 192 between Centre Hall and Lewisburg.

What I meant by deviating was that he got onto Sand Mountain road, stopped for a moment and picked up a passenger, then continued on and got back on 192. As Sand Mountain Road and 192 run roughly parallel, it should not take much time.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I wonder, sometimes, if he ever made that trip--or at least in the way that PF's account of the phone call suggests.

 

[Trackergd]

I wonder, sometimes, if he ever made that trip--or at least in the way that PF's account of the phone call suggests.

That would completely change the course of the investigation. JJ, did PF pass a polygraph? I seem to remember she did.

 

[Trackergd]

I wonder, sometimes, if he ever made that trip--or at least in the way that PF's account of the phone call suggests.

If one subscribes to at least one of the three witnesses who saw him in Lewisburg, then we know he was there. My strong opinion is that he abandoned or was forced to abandon the Mini there as he or others assumed it would be found and that's where the focus of the investigation would be. Much like a magician uses slight of hand to misdirect the audience to look at something, while the other hand is doing something else, RG or others used the same tactic. It is a rather brilliant move. I am not sure if the laptop and drive were ever meant to be found. If they were, that is even more brilliant and would have required a bit of study to determine just where to dispose of them so they would wash up at some point in the future. The water is way too shallow for him to have drowned unless he was really working at it and no body was found. Couple that with the Fenton sighting which I am about 50/50 on, and it is a good case for "exit stage right" for at least three reasons I can think of.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That would completely change the course of the investigation. JJ, did PF pass a polygraph? I seem to remember she did.

Yes, as did Lara, both in 2005. PEF took it in early July; LAG in early September.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If one subscribes to at least one of the three witnesses who saw him in Lewisburg, then we know he was there. My strong opinion is that he abandoned or was forced to abandon the Mini there as he or others assumed it would be found and that's where the focus of the investigation would be. Much like a magician uses slight of hand to misdirect the audience to look at something, while the other hand is doing something else, RG or others used the same tactic. It is a rather brilliant move. I am not sure if the laptop and drive were ever meant to be found. If they were, that is even more brilliant and would have required a bit of study to determine just where to dispose of them so they would wash up at some point in the future. The water is way too shallow for him to have drowned unless he was really working at it and no body was found. Couple that with the Fenton sighting which I am about 50/50 on, and it is a good case for "exit stage right" for at least three reasons I can think of.

The location of the car would support the misdirection theory. According to TG, it was found in the middle row, and people saw him "moving the car in the parking lot." Most people park in the first row, the row closest to the SoS. By parking in the second row and at the far end of that row, it would be likely that the car would not be spotted from either street. Cars in the first row would tend to obscure it. There, of course, could be other reasons, and it could be a coincidence.

I would be interested in the "exit stage right" reasons.

It was 7 reported witnesses in Lewisburg on 4/15, and 3 reported witnesses in Lewisburg on 4/16. Those are minimums.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder, sometimes, if he ever made that trip--or at least in the way that PF's account of the phone call suggests.

A witness (a lawyer) saw him between Pleasant Gap and Centre Hall between 11:00 and 11:30 AM on 4/15. Between 11:30 and 11:35 AM, a county worker saw him turning onto Route 192. The call was made about a mile north-east of Centre Hall on 192. The time has been given 11:12 and around 11:30 AM.

Witnesses did put him in the area when the call was made. I cannot rule out that he didn't drive on 192, make the call at 11:12 AM, and circle around to Centre Hall again. If he did circle back, I don't know why.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

A witness (a lawyer) saw him between Pleasant Gap and Centre Hall between 11:00 and 11:30 AM on 4/15. Between 11:30 and 11:35 AM, a county worker saw him turning onto Route 192. The call was made about a mile north-east of Centre Hall on 192. The time has been given 11:12 and around 11:30 AM.

Witnesses did put him in the area when the call was made. I cannot rule out that he didn't drive on 192, make the call at 11:12 AM, and circle around to Centre Hall again. If he did circle back, I don't know why.

Now to me that is interesting and well it is making me laugh which I should not be this is just getting sadder wow centre county I hope you all wake up sometine