PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #4

[izzyB]

Ok, Izzy, you are rereading I was the other day, LOL....and I remembered the flowers, but forgot what the outcome was...so we never had an outcome on the flowers on WS? If so, I couldn't find it.

I am going to research this some more, maybe check the Q&A on Center Daily and if can't find there I 'll send this question in.

I remember the car theft too, isn't it amazing, we are on one thing, then move on and forgot about the other things, like the flowers, the car....I guess the cassette tape was resolved....so much information!!!!!

listen, LE thinks they have "solved" the mystery of the flowers, but i do not!!
the timing is all wrong for someone to go down there and leave flowers according to their (LE's) theory b/c ray is missing. how could that be when even the police are just starting to look for the guy??? they found the flowers probably saturday afternoon, sunday at the latest, for it to make it into the papers. who would high-tail it down there that soon, and on top of that know where to go and place flowers??? makes no sense.

this is why i think there is some kind of cover-up.

 

[christine2448]

I am reading all back through the Q&A, interesting to say the least...I haven't read there in awhile.


I found this answer about the 'open law book', I was under the impression it was found on Gricar's desk..I did NOT know the following:

It was supposedly found on Assistant District Attorney Mark Smith's desk on Monday. I do not know if Smith was in on Friday. But all ADAs can come into the Courthouse on the weekends to work, with the proper identification to get into the building of course. So anyone could have put it there, including Ray. But former Bellefonte Police Chief Duane Dixon told me the book was not fingerprinted. So the book at this point is, to quote Shakespeare, a lot of "sound and fury signifying nothing."

 

[christine2448]

I wonder if Ray had a LI policy, how much, when taken, who was beneficiary?

 

[christine2448]

ANother thing that keeps coming up, LARA had and has complete control over Ray's finances...another thing I missed:

Q&A Page 6
Lara Gricar has not reported any unusual activity in Ray's accounts, which she has complete control over.

 

[christine2448]

The car was NOT Patti's everyone.


It was Ray's. But when he bought the Mini Cooper, in cash, he registered it in Patty's name. His reasoning, as told to police by Patty, was that he wanted his assets protected in case he was ever sued for wrongful prosecution, or something like that. So the car was Ray's, but registered to Patty

 

[Hbgchick]

The car was NOT Patti's everyone.


It was Ray's. But when he bought the Mini Cooper, in cash, he registered it in Patty's name. His reasoning, as told to police by Patty, was that he wanted his assets protected in case he was ever sued for wrongful prosecution, or something like that. So the car was Ray's, but registered to Patty

Not to mince hairs, but whoever the car is registered to is the technical owner of the car, regardless of who paid for it. We got into this same argument over the weekend with a friend's sister, who STUPIDLY signed her car over to her druggie boyfriend so that it would be in his name (this is a whole other story , but this girl has completely lost her mind). She kept insisting that it was still "her car" but she just wanted him to be able to drive it. But legally, no. It is now his car, just as the mini-cooper was Patty's car. RG may have been the primary (or even sole) driver, but if it's registered to Patty, it's legally Patty's.

 

[christine2448]

Not to mince hairs, but whoever the car is registered to is the technical owner of the car, regardless of who paid for it. We got into this same argument over the weekend with a friend's sister, who STUPIDLY signed her car over to her druggie boyfriend so that it would be in his name (this is a whole other story , but this girl has completely lost her mind). She kept insisting that it was still "her car" but she just wanted him to be able to drive it. But legally, no. It is now his car, just as the mini-cooper was Patty's car. RG may have been the primary (or even sole) driver, but if it's registered to Patty, it's legally Patty's.

Well, ya yer right, but I was under the impression by stuff I read that people were wondering why he would be driving 'her' car.....now my outlook ont hat has changed...my car is in hubby's name, registered under him, the whole schmoo, but if you were to ask anyone I know who drives the little silver one and who drives the black truck, they'd say the little silver one was Christine's car...know what I mean?

 

[Louisa]

Christine, Re the cars, I think there would be a difference with a legal marriage in a community property state, so that when you say, "That's Christine's car" even though it's in hubby's name, there's some legal backing to it.

PF and RG were not married and hadn't been living together long enough to be "common law" in Pennsylvania, even if we used the longest possible time frame of the disputed time frames for living together.

Also, I came across a link last night for the tape--it was an aerobics tape according to LE and they dismissed any connection to RG.

Izzy, I see what you're saying. LE's story is as Chickie theorized, IIRC--that the person who supposedly put the flowers there came to LE and said, "It was me. I put them there as a tribute to Ray." (made up quote, of course) I'm not saying this is true or not true, just reporting what was reported!

 

[christine2448]

Christine, Re the cars, I think there would be a difference with a legal marriage in a community property state, so that when you say, "That's Christine's car" even though it's in hubby's name, there's some legal backing to it.

PF and RG were not married and hadn't been living together long enough to be "common law" in Pennsylvania, even if we used the longest possible time frame of the disputed time frames for living together.

Also, I came across a link last night for the tape--it was an aerobics tape according to LE and they dismissed any connection to RG.

Izzy, I see what you're saying. LE's story is as Chickie theorized, IIRC--that the person who supposedly put the flowers there came to LE and said, "It was me. I put them there as a tribute to Ray." (made up quote, of course) I'm not saying this is true or not true, just reporting what was reported!

Ok..just smack me in the head....IZZY..help me out, is the flowers things resolved or do I need to keep diggin'? I have spent my time rereading the Q&A, it's been awhile since I went on there, fascinating.

 

[Hbgchick]

I see what you mean Christine. But as Louise said, you and hubby are indeed married. PF and RG were not, and I think it is rather odd that RG would buy a car, in cash, and put it in Patty's name if he weren't planning something. That whole story about whatever it was he said is, IMO, made up. Which of course takes me back to the theory that he took off on his own. Sigh.

DID someone actually go to LE and say "I put the flowers there"? For whatever reason? Sorry - I'm missing if someone actually did that or not.

 

[christine2448]

Which of course takes me back to the theory that he took off on his own. Sigh..

After really jumping back into this again...as most of you know I had a baby 7 months ago, I hadn't been following as much, just relying on news and mom and sis...now that I am rereading and looking back into everything, and the Q&A stuff mostly....I am sadly thinking that he planned this...but why?

Here's my take on it.....let's find him if he did just take off and make him face all these people that have been so concerned, scared, hurt, spending $$, resources and time trying to figure out what happened! Do we start in or out of the US? :waitasec:


It's so hard to believe he would do this.

What about the Laura.....the bank acct thing is odd to me, the $$ is really smacking me in the head, this is just not adding up.

WHile preggers, I spent a lot of time researchign the corruption in those parts, the drugs goings on, I was CONVINCED that he was murdered.....but still can find no evidence of that........the money this is INCREDIBLY strange, this is taken the cake right now.

DID someone actually go to LE and say "I put the flowers there"? For whatever reason? Sorry - I'm missing if someone actually did that or not.

Still looking or waiting for Izzy to clarify, which ever comes first

 

[izzyB]

Ok..just smack me in the head....IZZY..help me out, is the flowers things resolved or do I need to keep diggin'? I have spent my time rereading the Q&A, it's been awhile since I went on there, fascinating.

i have found the first mention of the flowers in post #24 (i believe) on the first thread. it was in reference to an article linked in post #23 that is no longer available, but websleuths date these posts 4/18/05.

these flowers first found by LE when they searched the river bank the first time for ray has NOT been resolved to my satisfaction (and was not resolved on the first thread). but LE has given a lame excuse.

 

[christine2448]

i have found the first mention of the flowers in post #24 (i believe) on the first thread. it was in reference to an article linked in post #23 that is no longer available, but websleuths date these posts 4/18/05.

these flowers first found by LE when they searched the river bank the first time for ray has NOT been resolved to my satisfaction (and was not resolved on the first thread). but LE has given a lame excuse.

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[christine2448]

i have found the first mention of the flowers in post #24 (i believe) on the first thread. it was in reference to an article linked in post #23 that is no longer available, but websleuths date these posts 4/18/05.

these flowers first found by LE when they searched the river bank the first time for ray has NOT been resolved to my satisfaction (and was not resolved on the first thread). but LE has given a lame excuse.

Just wrote to Pete asking him about the flowers, let's see if he knows anything that we missed.

 

[luthersmama]

A few minor points:

- Did Lara always have control over his finances or did that come about as a result of his disappearance? My guess is that she had a durable power of attorney that she exercised after he disappeared.

- There is no common law marriage in PA any more.

- Who owns the car is whoever is on the title document

- It would have been a waste of time to fingerprint the law book. The article didn't say whether that copy belonged just to the DAs office or whether other county employees had access to it, but it was most likely covered in years and years worth of prints.

 

[christine2448]

A few minor points:

- Did Lara always have control over his finances or did that come about as a result of his disappearance? My guess is that she had a durable power of attorney that she exercised after he disappeared.

- There is no common law marriage in PA any more.

- Who owns the car is whoever is on the title document

- It would have been a waste of time to fingerprint the law book. The article didn't say whether that copy belonged just to the DAs office or whether other county employees had access to it, but it was most likely covered in years and years worth of prints.

Nope, Pete Bosak said for SOME TIME...not since his disappearance...that is what I think is weird....let me see if I can find the exact words, it was actually said more than once.....brb

 

[christine2448]

QUESTION: The issue of Gricar's savings may be a lot bigger than you realize. Just doing a back of an envolope calculation using an average salory of 90K a year for 20 years yields some 1.8 Million dollars. Even accounting for taxes and alimony and children's college education expenses, that leaves a huge amount of money not accounted for IMO. An estate comprising 100k, a car, and maybe a house does not add up. Not even close ! Were some funds put into some kind of trust for his children ? Did he give massive amounts of money to charity every year ?

Anonymous, Albany, NY 5/25/06


ANSWER: He only had his daughter, Lara, and Ray had held his checking and savings accounts jointly with her for years. Friends tell me he was a frugle man who did not give away money by the fistfuls to charities. What do you think? Even his closest friends think he should have had more money that that. But that is all police found.

Pete Bosak 5/31/06

HERE's ANOTHER

QUESTIONo you know, since you seem to know more than anyone else, WHEN Ray put his finances in joint name with his daughter. For instance, did he used to keep his money and accounts in his own name and just recently put stuff in joint names or has he always kept accounts in joint names with his daughter? Also, did he always keep cars titled in someone elses name or his own name or was the Mini Cooper being in Patty's name something new for him?
Anonymous, State College 5/25/06


ANSWER: I do not know specifically when he made his savings and checking accounts joint ones with his beloved daughter, but it was years before he disappeared. By all accounts, he tried to help her in any way he could and she was a student at the time. As for your last question, I'm looking into that as far as whether putting his property in someone else's name was a fairly new development or something he always did as a prosecutor. I'll let you know what I find out. Pete Bosak 5/26/06

 

[christine2448]

Another one


QUESTION: I say, "follow the money". Where is all of Ray's savings? Until his finances are revealed, I think it looks like he flew the coop. He did not have a particularly good track record in his past relationships with women. It seems to me the police should verify his finances as priority number one in order to rule out Ray's self-imposed disappearance. As is so often the case; 'show me the money'.
pat, weston, FL 5/22/06


ANSWER: Ray's savings and checking accounts were jointly held with his beloved daughter, Lara Gricar. Police are relying on her to tell them if there is any unusual activity in those accounts. Police have indicated there was more than $100,000 combined in those accounts. He had no investments. He paid no alimony to his two past wives. While he was making $129,000 the year he vanished, who knows? Perhaps his divorce settlements were more costly than many would think. Lara Gricar has not reported any unusual activity in Ray's accounts, which she has complete control over. Pete Bosak 5/23/06

 

[Louisa]

Christine,

First, Happy Baby! Don't know where you're finding to time to do any of this with an infant!

Thanks for digging up all the Bosak references to the finances. I did not realize that the joint accounts pre-dated the disappearance, thought only that Lara had been put in charge of "monitoring" the accounts since Ray went missing. That makes a lot more sense now from LE perspective since she already had half "power" to the account (originally thought it might be a bit like having John Ramsey search the Ramsey house that morning for JonBenet, i.e., just a bit of an ill-advised move).

That said, it also makes more sense that IF Ray is alive, he's going to KNOW Lara has access to his accounts as opposed to merely surmising that LE will be watching his bank accounts and would therefore not touch them if we wants to stay hidden.

Also wanted to say I read the accounts posted regarding your sister's ordeal and I am so sorry and SO glad your sister has been able to piece her life together. I have a young friend going through something similar, and it is heartbreaking.

 

[Hbgchick]

Another one


QUESTION: I say, "follow the money". Where is all of Ray's savings? Until his finances are revealed, I think it looks like he flew the coop. He did not have a particularly good track record in his past relationships with women. It seems to me the police should verify his finances as priority number one in order to rule out Ray's self-imposed disappearance. As is so often the case; 'show me the money'.
pat, weston, FL 5/22/06


ANSWER: Ray's savings and checking accounts were jointly held with his beloved daughter, Lara Gricar. Police are relying on her to tell them if there is any unusual activity in those accounts. Police have indicated there was more than $100,000 combined in those accounts. He had no investments. He paid no alimony to his two past wives. While he was making $129,000 the year he vanished, who knows? Perhaps his divorce settlements were more costly than many would think. Lara Gricar has not reported any unusual activity in Ray's accounts, which she has complete control over. Pete Bosak 5/23/06

I'm sure that there has not been unusual activity in the referenced bank accounts. But what if there was one BIG account elsewhere that Lara was not aware of? A seasoned prosecutor would know that the first thing that LE would look into would be his finances. That's what I keep coming back to also - he had been in law enforcement for years and years and years, and knew lots of tricks of the trade, I'm sure.