PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't think whether RG took his phone and Luna left his or any fact of that ilk points either for or against a connection between their deaths. The biggest connection to my mind is that both cases have good unsolved, which strikes me as odd considering they were both prosecutors.

Well, the MO certainly is not the same and I'm interested in the RFG. As for "unsolved," the FBI reached a conclusion in JPL's death.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Did you know JL had two work related trips to PA? His parents commented to it. It has not been made public what they was. Another tidbit was found on JL's work computer including a adult ad. To me it was a plant but its anyones guess. Here are some interesting readings. Im also wondering about the two work related trips JL had. Could there be a RG connection?




http://patfish.blogspot.com/2004/12/true-crime-jonathan-p-luna-mystery.html -suicide theory

http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/4706_Prosecutor-s-personal-life-examined.html
The Lunas told investigators their son had made at least two recent trips to Pennsylvania for work-related reasons.


Read more: http://lancasteronline.com/article/local/4681_DA-to-meet-with-feds-in-Baltimore.html#ixzz1blu9frUm

http://lancasteronline.com/section/local/tag_agent_13-agent.html article links on
here

http://lancasteronline.com/article/...es-after-federal-prosecutor-s-body-found.html


http://www.yardbird.com/luna.htm

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Did you know JL had two work related trips to PA? His parents commented to it. It has not been made public what they was. Another tidbit was found on JL's work computer including a adult ad. To me it was a plant but its anyones guess. Here are some interesting readings. Im also wondering about the two work related trips JL had. Could there be a RG connection?

Are you aware that the USDA's Office said there was no case in Pennsylvania?

 

[cloudbuster05]

Are you aware that the USDA's Office said there was no case in Pennsylvania?

His parents said differently. Im letting the readers have some tidbits. It would be a pity to cheat them of other truths presented.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

His parents said differently. Im letting the readers have some tidbits. It would be a pity to cheat them of other truths presented.

No, his parents, actually his father, said that is what JPL told him. I don't believe the father is being dishonest.

You make an assumption that JPL was being accurate when he said something. That assumption may not be correct. That may be one thing in common in both cases.

For anyone wanting to seriously look at the JPL case, a summary is here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/12/03/2396332/the-other-prosecutor-part-1-the.html

It does not conclude anything regarding the case.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Thanks JJ!!! Im going to hurry on over to your blog so I can form my final summary of the JPL case on it. If I agree than I will thank you again, and again but if I can't come to a conclusion then I will have to do some of my own tracking of facts. Oh I forgot you was one of the lead investigators of that case. I should have asked you first, my bad.... Im so glad you have so much to offer and again Im so sorry for not heeding to your knowledge of that case!!! I will get it right eventually. Give me time to go to your blog now. Thanks!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks JJ!!! Im going to hurry on over to your blog so I can form my final summary of the JPL case on it. If I agree than I will thank you again, and again but if I can't come to a conclusion then I will have to do some of my own tracking of facts. Oh I forgot you was one of the lead investigators of that case. I should have asked you first, my bad.... Im so glad you have so much to offer and again Im so sorry for not heeding to your knowledge of that case!!! I will get it right eventually. Give me time to go to your blog now. Thanks!

I wasn't one of the "lead investigator," but I did do summary on the case, with footnotes obviously. I didn't reach a conclusion in that blog, except that it would highly suspicious for a USADA, in a suit, to be in Amish country in middle of the night. It mentions both theories (suicide and murder).

The next blog in the series looks at if the MO was similar, assuming that both RFG and JPL were murdered. The divergent points are not opinion; they are divergent points.

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/12/06/2396337/the-other-prosecutor-part-2-parallels.html

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Has anyone ever thought the maybe, just maybe Mr. Gricar's computer could have been hacked? ...(im sure the answer is gonna be-it couldnt happen-but i am 99.9% sure it could)

 

[cloudbuster05]

Has anyone ever thought the maybe, just maybe Mr. Gricar's computer could have been hacked? ...(im sure the answer is gonna be-it couldnt happen-but i am 99.9% sure it could)

Im with you on that possibility.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Well, the MO certainly is not the same and I'm interested in the RFG. As for "unsolved," the FBI reached a conclusion in JPL's death.

The FBI reached a conclusion Im sure they did. I think this article if read would explain who made the request for the DOJ to do a independant investagation into the JPL and Gricar case. I would note what Mr Cohen had to say about the FBI problem in the JPL case.
Lawmaker asks Justice Department
Inspector General for independent investigation
into Jon Luna and Ray Gricar cases

Mark Cohen asked for a investagation.

http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_mark_cohen_letter_12505.htm

Mystery solved on who asked the DOJ.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The FBI reached a conclusion Im sure they did. I think this article if read would explain who made the request for the DOJ to do a independant investagation into the JPL and Gricar case. I would note what Mr Cohen had to say about the FBI problem in the JPL case.
Lawmaker asks Justice Department
Inspector General for independent investigation
into Jon Luna and Ray Gricar cases

Mark Cohen asked for a investagation.

http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_mark_cohen_letter_12505.htm

Mystery solved on who asked the DOJ.

Not from that source.

The guy tried to piggyback on to the RFG disappearance to sell his book on JPL, for which he was sued.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Has anyone ever thought the maybe, just maybe Mr. Gricar's computer could have been hacked? ...(im sure the answer is gonna be-it couldnt happen-but i am 99.9% sure it could)

The computer could have been connected to the Internet, but it didn't have wi fi.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

The computer could have been connected to the Internet, but it didn't have wi fi.

I think we should investigate this!

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Once again in your blog on CDT, slamdunk commented that it was mostly the DOJ, department of Justice that visited his blog on RG. Why are we leaving out the DOJ? Where are you coming up with the treasury? Who exactly was visited by them? I know you asked about the treasury on another board. (reference a few posts above #4582) you asked Commonsense if she had any visits from the treasury.

Is slamdunk related to Mr. Gricar -by any chance? Or a friend in LE? (just wondering)

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

J.J-is it true that you are a retired FLE? ---(I am honored and shocked-and understand why you are so strong-willed-if this is true) LOL

 

[pittsburghgirl]

FB was limited to colleges, and when RFG first ceased to be a part of LG's daily life, there was no e-mail outside of academia and the military.

JJ, just because a divorced parent isn't living with a child or in the same state or time zone doesn't mean that the parent "ceased to be a part of LG's daily life." I didn't talk to my parents every day when I was in college, but neither did I simply "walk away" and never speak to them again. I just don't see how you can equate the the normal process of coming into adulthood, called separation and individuation in psychology, with the radical, very rare decision for a parent to simply terminate a relationship with his "child." Clearly, RG's relationship with LG worked well enough for both of them to be in affectionate contact and for him to make it clear to his staff that her needs were a priority for him. My view is that family members who love each other do not need to see each other every day to be connected, part of the same family.

And of course I know that LG is not a minor; I am obviously using the term "child" to refer to "offspring." If anyone has a better term for "adult offspring," I will gladly defer.

You seem to see RG's disappearance as someone expected or justified because he was a divorced parent and spent less physical time with his daughter. I don't think it matters whether he saw her for alternate weekends or just during vacations or for only a few days per year. He was still her father, and at any age for a parent to cut off contact would be painful for the "offspring." We will have to agree to disagree because I just don't see a "fairly decent" or "adequate" or emotionally mature father not knowing he would cause lots and lots of pain.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

JJ, just because a divorced parent isn't living with a child or in the same state or time zone doesn't mean that the parent "ceased to be a part of LG's daily life." I didn't talk to my parents every day when I was in college, but neither did I simply "walk away" and never speak to them again. I just don't see how you can equate the the normal process of coming into adulthood, called separation and individuation in psychology, with the radical, very rare decision for a parent to simply terminate a relationship with his "child." Clearly, RG's relationship with LG worked well enough for both of them to be in affectionate contact and for him to make it clear to his staff that her needs were a priority for him. My view is that family members who love each other do not need to see each other every day to be connected, part of the same family.

And of course I know that LG is not a minor; I am obviously using the term "child" to refer to "offspring." If anyone has a better term for "adult offspring," I will gladly defer.

You seem to see RG's disappearance as someone expected or justified because he was a divorced parent and spent less physical time with his daughter. I don't think it matters whether he saw her for alternate weekends or just during vacations or for only a few days per year. He was still her father, and at any age for a parent to cut off contact would be painful for the "offspring." We will have to agree to disagree because I just don't see a "fairly decent" or "adequate" or emotionally mature father not knowing he would cause lots and lots of pain.

Lara called Mr. Gricar out of the "blue" to tell him that she loved him on 4/14. I was pretty close to my parents, but I rarely would just pick the phone up to call them-and can count on a single hand -the amount of times I called them -just to tell them that I loved them. I believe that Mr. Gricar and his daughter had a very special bond. jmo -of course.

I also believe that Lara and her cousins, were devestated when his brother commited suicide. I don't believe for one second, Mr. Gricar would put these people through all of this again. Suicide is something that a person can never forget or seem to get past. He would not have added to their heartaches.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Is slamdunk related to Mr. Gricar -by any chance? Or a friend in LE? (just wondering)

I believe he is a retired officer.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think we should investigate this!

It didn't have an independent Internet connection, and, unless RFG was hiding it, hadn't been connected to the Internet 3-4 months.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, just because a divorced parent isn't living with a child or in the same state or time zone doesn't mean that the parent "ceased to be a part of LG's daily life."

Oh, please! 2000 miles, or frankly 20 miles, makes a difference.

I didn't talk to my parents every day when I was in college, but neither did I simply "walk away" and never speak to them again. I just don't see how you can equate the the normal process of coming into adulthood, called separation and individuation in psychology, with the radical, very rare decision for a parent to simply terminate a relationship with his "child."

I don't. I do say they that there was a huge amount of separation, which is perfectly normal. People normally drift apart.

Clearly, RG's relationship with LG worked well enough for both of them to be in affectionate contact and for him to make it clear to his staff that her needs were a priority for him. My view is that family members who love each other do not need to see each other every day to be connected, part of the same family.

You are confusing "affectionate" with "close."

And of course I know that LG is not a minor; I am obviously using the term "child" to refer to "offspring." If anyone has a better term for "adult offspring," I will gladly defer.

Daughter, her actual status. Not "child."

You seem to see RG's disappearance as someone expected or justified because he was a divorced parent and spent less physical time with his daughter.

No, I see separation, which was long term. RFG could very easily look at his daughter and think, she in an independent adult, who doesn't need me to put food on the table, or change her diaper. It isn't a suggestion that he doesn't love her, nor that he wished to provide for her.

I don't think it matters whether he saw her for alternate weekends or just during vacations or for only a few days per year. He was still her father, and at any age for a parent to cut off contact would be painful for the "offspring." We will have to agree to disagree because I just don't see a "fairly decent" or "adequate" or emotionally mature father not knowing he would cause lots and lots of pain.

An emotionally mature father who realized his daughter is an intelligent, emotionally mature, and educated adult may.

The fact that you don't like it really has no bearing on it.

Go down to my signature. It says, "What happened to Ray Gricar?" If the answer is, "He left voluntarily," I can live with him making that choice. It was his choice, and no one else's. I just want to know it was his.

If he walked, why can't you respect that choice?