PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[TallCoolOne]

Perhaps I'm naive, but isn't that slanderous if you print something in the public domain and it isn't true?

That's some pretty strong accusations to be making against someone.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Perhaps I'm naive, but isn't that slanderous if you print something in the public domain and it isn't true?

That's some pretty strong accusations to be making against someone.

The author of the The Midnight Ride.. was actually sued at one point.

In the case of a public official, it is a bit different. I was highly critical of the former Centre County DA (after RFG), but it was for his public actions.

 

[998]

To All:

The State's Public Welfare Dept investigated the 1998 incident and concluded no evidence to take action. Also, if the judge would not agree to the charges?


Why did the state review this case and not Centre County child welfare? What was the conflict of interest?



Why were the judges in Centre County allowed to over rule the DA and throw out charges instead of letting a jury decide? Who was the judge deciding these juvenile abuse cases and other cases?



If Gricar has a child welfare dept testifying nothing to see here, move along, and Gricar has a judge who likes to throw out charges, what is he to do?



The child said nothing sexual happened. Sandusky said nothing sexual happened. The state agency of child protection said nothing happened. 'Inappropriate behavior'.


Gricar goes public, makes the charge and judge throws it out. Then what? Do you think they recorded the conversation the mother had with Sandusky? Should Gricar have released that to the media?



He had a State Agency that would testify that NOTHING happened. He had a judge who could dismiss the charges. He had an 8 y/o victim he could put on witness stand who said nothing sexual happened and a hero of the community who did nothing but wonderful things for children he could cross examine.

Lawyer who worked for The Second Mile AND Penn State.

A media that worshipped Sandusky and that media might have had a grudge against Gricar since the Bailey murder case press conference snub.



A media that even in later years, heard the rumors but never investigated, NEVER published one single article about any complaint about anything having to do with The Second Mile or Sandusky. EVERY REPORT was glowing, worship like. What kind of jury pool?



Did no one find that odd> Since 1977 and not one single simple complaint reported on during all that time? Not from employees, donors, foster parents, biological parents? No Letters to the Editor, none. I am not talking about sexual abuse, I am talking about ANYTHING at all. Simple complaints? None.


Since 1977 not one single person, the food was great, the place was clean, all employees were perfect, all foster parents were perfect, building inspections perfect, golf touneys were run perfectly, camps perfect, never an ant at the picnics.

Finances perfect, nothing ever stolen from Second Mile, no pranks fire alarms pulled. No one yelled at a child, no striking a child, no injuries at all those picnics, camps, not even any employee slip and falls? No lawsuits? Firings? Workman's Comp complaints?

Sandusky never got a parking ticket, speeding ticket, it was all TOO perfect. All the childen perfect?



Not rumors, not what you later learned. I am talking about what was printed for public consumption at that time.



Gricar knew that, so think and think without emotion and 20/20 hindsight.



What do you do when you are the only person that you know of who knows something is not right but you have no concrete evidence, every govt agency wanting to shut everything about this case down, University board etc, entire media unwilling to report anything unfavorable, a community, state citizens, prominent ones also who donate, speak at national events about how wonderful this man and his organization is.

1977-1998. When was Sandusky honored with Center County's person of the year award? Why? Who votes on that?



When was he inducted into state sports hall of fame?



When and how long did The Second Mile have a contract with the state as a foster child placement agency? When and where are the reports by the govt on those home visits? Second Mile inspections?





It was all so Stepford Wives perfect, and that is what should have been a clue. Even the very best (fill in the bank) has a complaint in that time frame reported in the paper. But not one in the entire state from 1977 until March 31, 2011 reported in any newspaper.





You need to remember what was in newspapers in 1998-1999.



Remember what was in newspapers in 2004-2005.



If you cannot remember, the archives are your friend.



Also, can anyone tell me when where and who said that hard drive was without a doubt, proven to belong to Gricar? Was it assumed to be his, or 100% sure it was his? If so, how did they prove this? I am not talking about the laptop, but who what when where and how was that hard drive determined to without a doubt, belong to Ray Gricar? Who in media asked that question and who in LE answered it?

Thank You.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

To All:

The State's Public Welfare Dept investigated the 1998 incident and concluded no evidence to take action. Also, if the judge would not agree to the charges?

They took their action without all the evidence, including the comments Sandusky made to the mother, and after RFG decided not to prosecute.

Why were the judges in Centre County allowed to over rule the DA and throw out charges instead of letting a jury decide? Who was the judge deciding these juvenile abuse cases and other cases?

Judges routinely tossed out charges in all counties. In the Sandusky case in 1998, these never made it to court.

If Gricar has a child welfare dept testifying nothing to see here, move along, and Gricar has a judge who likes to throw out charges, what is he to do?



The child said nothing sexual happened. Sandusky said nothing sexual happened. The state agency of child protection said nothing happened. 'Inappropriate behavior'.

Under the charge, you don't need something "sexual." Open Lewdness is a legitimate ground for filing.

Gricar goes public, makes the charge and judge throws it out. Then what? Do you think they recorded the conversation the mother had with Sandusky? Should Gricar have released that to the media?

RFG never went public, and he never filed charges.

He had a State Agency that would testify that NOTHING happened. He had a judge who could dismiss the charges. He had an 8 y/o victim he could put on witness stand who said nothing sexual happened and a hero of the community who did nothing but wonderful things for children he could cross examine.

Lawyer who worked for The Second Mile AND Penn State.

A media that worshipped Sandusky and that media might have had a grudge against Gricar since the Bailey murder case press conference snub.

RFG had four adult witnesses to Sandusky's admission of the bear hug in the shower.

There was a lot of criticism of RFG in 1987, but no grudge. The Daily Collegian actually endorsed him in 1989.

A media that even in later years, heard the rumors but never investigated, NEVER published one single article about any complaint about anything having to do with The Second Mile or Sandusky. EVERY REPORT was glowing, worship like. What kind of jury pool?

There was no indication the media knew before 2011 and no one was speaking on the record.

Gricar knew that, so think and think without emotion and 20/20 hindsight.

If you are thinking that RFG caved in to PSU, be my guest. I don't agree.

What do you do when you are the only person that you know of who knows something is not right but you have no concrete evidence, every govt agency wanting to shut everything about this case down, University board etc, entire media unwilling to report anything unfavorable, a community, state citizens, prominent ones also who donate, speak at national events about how wonderful this man and his organization is.

Go back and read the first parts, 4 adult witnesses, and the victim. There was also a second victim, B. K.

Remember very well, that, after 1999, Sanduskiy was no longer the heir apparent of Paterno and that charges could have been filed. Remember as well that a current prosecutor, the AG, has filed charges based on the 1998 incident, without the second victim, B. K.

Also, can anyone tell me when where and who said that hard drive was without a doubt, proven to belong to Gricar? Was it assumed to be his, or 100% sure it was his? If so, how did they prove this? I am not talking about the laptop, but who what when where and how was that hard drive determined to without a doubt, belong to Ray Gricar? Who in media asked that question and who in LE answered it?
.

No, it cannot, but it does match the drive used in that laptop. We do know that RFG was interested in getting rid of the data in the year prior to disappearing, and that several witness put him in 75-100 yards of where the drive was found.

 

[minazoe]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/3...usky-sexually-abused-him-more-than-100-times/

"Sandusky made a threat to him that nobody would believe him and made a threat to his family," Anderson said.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/3...usky-sexually-abused-him-more-than-100-times/

"Sandusky made a threat to him that nobody would believe him and made a threat to his family," Anderson said.

Was it a physical threat? That is rhetorical.

 

[minazoe]

no there was threat to the boy.

and then a threat to his family...what kind of threat? I don't know...but I would like to know
EXACTLY what that threat was...

" I will call you a liar...I will make sure your family never works again...I will shut you up...I will hurt your parents...I will find your little sister and do this to her....."

I want to know.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

no there was threat to the boy.

and then a threat to his family...what kind of threat? I don't know...but I would like to know
EXACTLY what that threat was...

" I will call you a liar...I will make sure your family never works again...I will shut you up...I will hurt your parents...I will find your little sister and do this to her....."

I want to know.

I think that will be interesting, if there is a threat of violence.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Hmmm...violence against adults ?

where there's smoke....

Must be an echo in the Room.

 

[SeekingJana]

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/28/3001551/an-interesting-approach.html

Written 11/28.

This time, Karen Arnold says SHE knew about the 1998 Sandusky case before Ray Gricar did.

IMO, this woman needs to be looked at by LE as more than a " former co-worker". She has TRIED to insert herself into RG's missing person case from the very beginning, even impugning Patti F. and our poster J.J.
Of course, if you are familiar with the Gricar disappearance and subsequent happenings, you are aware of her VERY STRANGE website on the matter.

It is a fact that people who try to insert themselves into an investigation multiple times USUALLY have a much deeper motive than just " concern". In this latest effort, she makes herself look very bad regarding the Sandusky case and knowing before the DA did...

Maria

 

[J. J. in Phila]

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/28/3001551/an-interesting-approach.html

Written 11/28.

This time, Karen Arnold says SHE knew about the 1998 Sandusky case before Ray Gricar did.

IMO, this woman needs to be looked at by LE as more than a " former co-worker". She has TRIED to insert herself into RG's missing person case from the very beginning, even impugning Patti F. and our poster J.J.
Of course, if you are familiar with the Gricar disappearance and subsequent happenings, you are aware of her VERY STRANGE website on the matter.

It is a fact that people who try to insert themselves into an investigation multiple times USUALLY have a much deeper motive than just " concern". In this latest effort, she makes herself look very bad regarding the Sandusky case and knowing before the DA did...

Maria

I think, in all fairness, I ended up being inserted into the RFG case, so I don't know how much she tried.

JKA obviously knew RFG since 1987 and, I'd assume, cares about what happened to him.

I think it was mentioned in one of the articles that the staff vaguely knew about the case, but that they were not familiar with the details.

All that said, I have often said that the police should look at the staff of the DA's Office for leads and determine their whereabouts on 4/15, along with others.

 

[Centerice]

PHILADELPHIA — Former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky sexually abused a boy more than 100 times and threatened to harm his family to keep him quiet, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday by a new accuser who is not part of the criminal case.
...
The lawsuit claims Sandusky abused the boy from 1992, when the boy was 10, until 1996 in encounters at the coach's State College home, in a Penn State locker room and on trips, including to a bowl game. The account echoes a grand jury's description of trips, gifts and attention lavished on other boys.
...
Anderson declined to specify what sexual acts his client says took place, but he called them "severe."

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-sports/20111128/US.Penn.State.Abuse/

BBM

Doesn't explicitly say physical harm was threatened but it sure sounds that way.

Also sounds like this new victim would be another one of interest to the feds since he was also taken on trips (presumably across state lines) and molested.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

PHILADELPHIA — Former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky sexually abused a boy more than 100 times and threatened to harm his family to keep him quiet, according to a lawsuit filed Wednesday by a new accuser who is not part of the criminal case.
...

Doesn't explicitly say physical harm was threatened but it sure sounds that way.

Also sounds like this new victim would be another one of interest to the feds since he was also taken on trips (presumably across state lines) and molested.

It true and if there was a physical threat, yes. There are two "ifs" in that sentence.

 

[SeekingJana]

It true and if there was a physical threat, yes. There are two "ifs" in that sentence.

NOO, my friend, there is ONE " If" because you made a typo. :floorlaugh:
Just had to add a little levity.. This case is getting extremely depressing and lots of worrisome thoughts.

Totally agree with you about investigating the people in the DA's office!!!!!
Also, what about MM, whose BIL is one of Sandusky's now- adult children and an alleged abuse survivor?

BTW, you are entirely too humble. IF anyone had said and questioned my motives like KA did you and yours, I would have sued the chick for defamation so fast her neck would have snapped.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

NOO, my friend, there is ONE " If" because you made a typo. :floorlaugh:
Just had to add a little levity.. This case is getting extremely depressing and lots of worrisome thoughts.

With this one, I need the levity.

Totally agree with you about investigating the people in the DA's office!!!!!

Not just them, but everyone close to RFG. They may know something without knowing they know it. There might be a "helper" among them.

Also, what about MM, whose BIL is one of Sandusky's now- adult children and an alleged abuse survivor?

MM didn't know about it, and called in the AG. I give him praise for that.

BTW, you are entirely too humble. IF anyone had said and questioned my motives like KA did you and yours, I would have sued the chick for defamation so fast her neck would have snapped.

She go so much wrong with me that it was hilarious. It, unfortunately, build me into type of supposed expert on RFG, with "inside information." Mostly, my source is Google.

Further, JKA apparently never asked anyone to check the alumni directory, in the middle of the highest concentration of alumni on the planet. There are three unmarried males with the initials J. J. that live in Philadelphia, that were at Penn State in the mid 1980's and are members of the alumni association. It wasn't too hard to figure out.

The problem was everyone else with a Penn State connection could see how easy was to figure it out as well.

The real reason, my secret, that I hid my identity from everyone is that I'm so bloody boring.

 

[Kiln Wood]

With this one, I need the levity.



Not just them, but everyone close to RFG. They may know something without knowing they know it. There might be a "helper" among them.



MM didn't know about it, and called in the AG. I give him praise for that.



She go so much wrong with me that it was hilarious. It, unfortunately, build me into type of supposed expert on RFG, with "inside information." Mostly, my source is Google.

Further, JKA apparently never asked anyone to check the alumni directory, in the middle of the highest concentration of alumni on the planet. There are three unmarried males with the initials J. J. that live in Philadelphia, that were at Penn State in the mid 1980's and are members of the alumni association. It wasn't too hard to figure out.

The problem was everyone else with a Penn State connection could see how easy was to figure it out as well.

The real reason, my secret, that I hid my identity from everyone is that I'm so bloody boring.

BBM

JJ, absolutely, positively NOT!!!!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Amendola talks about a plea deal: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_exclusive_jerry_s.html

 

[SeekingJana]

There are many ways to look at this. First of all, it's apparently so massively bad that Sandusky doesn't want it to go to court.
I can see why not.

OTOH, I would guess that most of the young men are healing and to have to testify in even a closed court and be subjected to defense cross- examination is a type of rape all over again. It's definitely THEIR call, IMO. The survivors' wishes should come first and foremost, and I'm sure they will.

IF Jerry Sandusky 1) PAYS RETRIBUTION TO EVERY SURVIVOR and 2) SERVES TIME IN REGULAR PRISON then I can see it being better for the abuse survivors. And really-- We know so many awful details from the GJ report. I can't read or listen to anything more graphic.

The only thing that bothers me about this is that Sandusky, if not put on trial, will never have to testify about the 1998 investigation, thus closing the door to questioning about Ray Gricar. Thus ending ANY investigation into his disappearance based upon Sandusky's possible testimony about him....
Caveat- I do not think he harmed Ray Gricar or had him harmed. No one else, even among those who knew a lot more for a lot longer, is missing.

 

[TallCoolOne]

BBM

JJ, absolutely, positively NOT!!!!!

What you said!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The only thing that bothers me about this is that Sandusky, if not put on trial, will never have to testify about the 1998 investigation, thus closing the door to questioning about Ray Gricar. Thus ending ANY investigation into his disappearance based upon Sandusky's possible testimony about him....
Caveat- I do not think he harmed Ray Gricar or had him harmed. No one else, even among those who knew a lot more for a lot longer, is missing.

He can still be questioned about it.

I found this disturbing:

Victim Six: In 1998, police cleared Sandusky of wrongdoing after a boy told his mother he’d taken a shower with the coach during a tour of the football building. That should be enough evidence that there was no crime, Amendola said.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_exclusive_jerry_s.html

No, it is evidence of RFG's massive collapse of judgment. I am very troubled now by those who tried to defend that decision instead of admitting there was a problem with it.