PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[quixote]

I should know better than to post before my coffee has kicked in, but, here goes:

What is known about the analysis of Mr. Gricar's home computer, the one with the searches about how to destroy hard drives, etc.?? Do we know for a fact that those searches were done while he was actually in his home (i.e. dates/times, etc.)?? Could someone else have done those searches on his computer with the intent of making it seem as if Mr. Gricar had conducted them (i.e. broken into the home)?? Was the computer in the same home that Patty lived in?? Could she have used the computer?? While I don't think people feel she had anything to do with Mr. Gricar's disappearance, could she have perhaps been involved??

I'm not completely sure where I'm going with this, just thinking out loud without caffeine.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I should know better than to post before my coffee has kicked in, but, here goes:

What is known about the analysis of Mr. Gricar's home computer, the one with the searches about how to destroy hard drives, etc.?? Do we know for a fact that those searches were done while he was actually in his home (i.e. dates/times, etc.)?? Could someone else have done those searches on his computer with the intent of making it seem as if Mr. Gricar had conducted them (i.e. broken into the home)?? Was the computer in the same home that Patty lived in?? Could she have used the computer?? While I don't think people feel she had anything to do with Mr. Gricar's disappearance, could she have perhaps been involved??

I'm not completely sure where I'm going with this, just thinking out loud without caffeine.

LE has been clear that RFG did the searches, not that they were "done on his computer." It's a guess on my part, but they might have the times of the searches and can link them up with when RFG was there. He might have been responding to e-mail at the same time, which would be recorded.

The searches, and even RFG tossing the drive, are not nefarious. He had asked people, including people not on staff, how to get rid of the data on a drive. This just seem like a logical extension.

 

[abstr]

I can't get the J. Luna link out of my head. I think it might be more drug related, rather than to the Penn State debacle. I do not totally discount it though.

If he just wanted to leave...he had the means to say, hey, I want a new life....I've known many people who left families with young kids and said I just want to start new. He had no ties other than Patty. Maybe I am way off.

 

[abstr]

I am sure this has been answered before but....can't a hard drive be broken up by a hammer or something? If you wanted to really destroy it?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am sure this has been answered before but....can't a hard drive be broken up by a hammer or something? If you wanted to really destroy it?

I tried Driving a 16 penny nail through mine; the nail bent. After slamming it on a concrete floor repeatedly (like 20 times), it didn't break.

Lord Chatterly, I think, also looked at it, and we both reached the same conclusion; it is very difficult to destroy a hard drive. There are examples of companies getting data off a drive after it was run over by a bus.

 

[abstr]

I tried Driving a 16 penny nail through mine; the nail bent. After slamming it on a concrete floor repeatedly (like 20 times), it didn't break.

Lord Chatterly, I think, also looked at it, and we both reached the same conclusion; it is very difficult to destroy a hard drive. There are examples of companies getting data off a drive after it was run over by a bus.

Thank You, I guess I always donated computers after just wiping files and never gave it much thought.
And, I have a joke about Lord Chatterly...but maybe I should just not go there! :great:

 

[quixote]

I guess another question would be, "Why destroy the files??" As an elected public official, doing work to prosecute bad guys, shouldn't relevant information about cases continue to exist for those who succeeded him?? I believe a current GOP Presidential candidate is taking some heat over hard drive issues right now. I suppose the work issued laptop could have had some personal information on it, and Mr. Gricar could have backed up relevant work information to put on his desktop computer in his office (I assume he had one), but it seems odd for someone to destroy important information that might be needed by others who have a responsibility to prosecute criminals.

 

[abstr]

I guess another question would be, "Why destroy the files??" As an elected public official, doing work to prosecute bad guys, shouldn't relevant information about cases continue to exist for those who succeeded him?? I believe a current GOP Presidential candidate is taking some heat over hard drive issues right now. I suppose the work issued laptop could have had some personal information on it, and Mr. Gricar could have backed up relevant work information to put on his desktop computer in his office (I assume he had one), but it seems odd for someone to destroy important information that might be needed by others who have a responsibility to prosecute criminals.

A reason to never use a work computer for personal stuff.......

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I guess another question would be, "Why destroy the files??" As an elected public official, doing work to prosecute bad guys, shouldn't relevant information about cases continue to exist for those who succeeded him?? I believe a current GOP Presidential candidate is taking some heat over hard drive issues right now. I suppose the work issued laptop could have had some personal information on it, and Mr. Gricar could have backed up relevant work information to put on his desktop computer in his office (I assume he had one), but it seems odd for someone to destroy important information that might be needed by others who have a responsibility to prosecute criminals.

He used it as a home computer for about a year, so he probably had some personal stuff on it. Personal e-mail, family photos, financial data. I could understand him wanting to destroy the drive, for completely non-nefarious purposes.

 

[abstr]

He used it as a home computer for about a year, so he probably had some personal stuff on it. Personal e-mail, family photos, financial data. I could understand him wanting to destroy the drive, for completely non-nefarious purposes.

I agree....but I guess I feel like he wasn't financially worried...why not get a personal laptop? I use mine for both but it because I would feel the ouch from spending 500 bucks...can 't imagine he would

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I agree....but I guess I feel like he wasn't financially worried...why not get a personal laptop? I use mine for both but it because I would feel the ouch from spending 500 bucks...can 't imagine he would

This one cost more than $500, I think.

He did get a desktop in late 2004 or early 2005. I can understand him not buying one before that. Why buy one when you get the use of one for free?

 

[quixote]

He did get a desktop in late 2004 or early 2005. I can understand him not buying one before that. Why buy one when you get the use of one for free?

A good and valid point. On the other hand, a professional as disciplined as Mr. Gricar is portrayed to be, would be aware that it would be prudent to keep personal and professional matters separated. Still, the human species is a complicated one, and sometimes, even for very professional people, convenience may trump professionalism.

 

[abstr]

This one cost more than $500, I think.

He did get a desktop in late 2004 or early 2005. I can understand him not buying one before that. Why buy one when you get the use of one for free?

If you are doing something nefarious I would think you would.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

A grand jury gathers evidence, i.e. it calls people to testify before it. RFG could have applied to a judge to empanel one. I don't know of any case where he used a grand jury, however.



Tony did not go to PSU. Tony's brother did attend; he graduated prior to 1998. One ex-wife is a tenured professor at PSU, but has no association with the athletic department. They had divorced at least 6 years prior to 1998. His daughter did not attend PSU.

A lot of people in the area have an association with PSU, either working there or going there. Approximately 2% of the population of Pennsylvania is either a student at or an alumnus of PSU. About 36% of Centre County's population either is a student there or works there. When you factor in alumni, a few retired employees, and a few people that didn't complete their degrees, it might break the 50% mark.

Thanks, JJ, I understand HOW the grand jury works, I have been on one . As much as I have believed that Mr. Gricar was on the up and up, after reading SO many things about him the last few days, I am beginning to question my own beliefs about him.

The truth is, Mr. Gricar had PLENTY of evidence to "empanel" that grand jury, and refused to. Why did he go thru all of the trouble of the "sting" and then not follow through? Was Detective Zacaggni involved in this at all?


Anyone remember the psychic that spent so much time with the Det. in this case? She is now claiming her visions were "spot on"...I wonder what the Gricar's think of this?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A good and valid point. On the other hand, a professional as disciplined as Mr. Gricar is portrayed to be, would be aware that it would be prudent to keep personal and professional matters separated. Still, the human species is a complicated one, and sometimes, even for very professional people, convenience may trump professionalism.

He had made inquiries about destroying the data about a year before he disappeared, so he had time. One thing I would be looking for is if he ordered a replacement drive or searched for one on the Internet. They were not too expensive (less than $200, I think).

I think it was a case of convenience.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, JJ, I understand HOW the grand jury works, I have been on one . As much as I have believed that Mr. Gricar was on the up and up, after reading SO many things about him the last few days, I am beginning to question my own beliefs about him.

The truth is, Mr. Gricar had PLENTY of evidence to "empanel" that grand jury, and refused to. Why did he go thru all of the trouble of the "sting" and then not follow through? Was Detective Zacaggni involved in this at all?

DZ was not involved. Det. Schreffler felt that there was enough evidence to file on some charges; he was also the one who set up the "sting," with RFG's permission. The retired chief in Selinsgrove said the same thing you did about a grand jury. http://dailyitem.com/0111_letters/x1713520916/Missed-chances/print I've said the same thing before.

I'd still say RFG was on the "up and up," at least for now, and a DA does have the discretion not to charge. This was, at least, colossally bad judgment on RFG's part, but that does not imply any impropriety. I will say it was not typical and completely anomalous.

I was hoping that RFG maybe just missed a newly adopted statute, but Det. Schreffler comments were damning to that theory.

Anyone remember the psychic that spent so much time with the Det. in this case? She is now claiming her visions were "spot on"...I wonder what the Gricar's think of this?

I honestly don't think they know.

 

[SeekingJana]

I just saw a very disturbing biography on John Dupont of Philadelphia.. His obsession with your wrestlers.. His private facilities for the young men... And of course, his enormous fortune..
And a coach named Shultz who was murdered in 1998.

Any chance that Dupont was involved with Sandusky in any way?

I hate to say it, but it seems like NAMBLA might as well be headquartered in PA. Jeez.

 

[justathought]

I'm confused on the file. Is there a 98-page file? Where is it? I thought I understood from the show there was. But J.J.'s post that it's not in the office...if that's what JJ said....I must have missed that if that's what they said on the Dateline show. Does it not exist? Is it in storage? Is the page count different than 98-pages? (Yes, LE/DA's etc. will play those sort of semantic games.) I just don't get why a file on a case of this nature...even if not prosecuted wouldn't be archived if needed for future reference because cases of this nature are so difficult to prosecute.

One thing I'm picking up from various comments from the interview about Sarah (the reporter) and others...is that there were onging rumors about
Sandusky......so why wouldn't whoever had it want to keep that file for CYA...as several folks knew there was an investigation in 1998. A reporter inquiry was sure to come.

I'm not so sure that Gricar wasn't murdered beccuse he knew more was coming out on this and was having meetings...maybe not well thought out as to his demise would be enough to keep the story underwraps but that sort of erroneous thinking happens. On the other hand, maybe there was a big pay off that he took advantage of to walk away. I am convinced the sleeping excessivley was not depression...it was a way of avoiding interacting with Patty...to keep what was going on with either his actions on a case against Sandusky (he didn't have to worry about reelection) or his planning to disappear to himself...no slip ups.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I just saw a very disturbing biography on John Dupont of Philadelphia.. His obsession with your wrestlers.. His private facilities for the young men... And of course, his enormous fortune..
And a coach named Shultz who was murdered in 1998.

Any chance that Dupont was involved with Sandusky in any way?

I hate to say it, but it seems like NAMBLA might as well be headquartered in PA. Jeez.

No, mercifully. Dupont had severe mental issues.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm confused on the file. Is there a 98-page file? Where is it? I thought I understood from the show there was. But J.J.'s post that it's not in the office...if that's what JJ said....I must have missed that if that's what they said on the Dateline show. Does it not exist? Is it in storage? Is the page count different than 98-pages? (Yes, LE/DA's etc. will play those sort of semantic games.) I just don't get why a file on a case of this nature...even if not prosecuted wouldn't be archived if needed for future reference because cases of this nature are so difficult to prosecute.

There is a University Police file, reported at around 100 pages. There is no file in the DA's Office on what RFG did. Madeira said that it was not unusual not to have a file at the DA's Office.

Det. Schreffler said he was not surprised when called before the GJ.

I'm not so sure that Gricar wasn't murdered beccuse he knew more was coming out on this and was having meetings...maybe not well thought out as to his demise would be enough to keep the story underwraps but that sort of erroneous thinking happens. On the other hand, maybe there was a big pay off that he took advantage of to walk away. I am convinced the sleeping excessivley was not depression...it was a way of avoiding interacting with Patty...to keep what was going on with either his actions on a case against Sandusky (he didn't have to worry about reelection) or his planning to disappear to himself...no slip ups.

The Sandusky stuff lowers neither walkaway or murder. It might open some very uncomfortable murder scenarios.

He was acting oddly with the rest of the staff, according to JKA.