PA PA - Richard Petrone 35 & Danielle Imbo 34, Philadelphia, 19 Feb 2005 #2

[dmvpenn]

I cant explain it rationally but I feel very strongly in my heart the truth of this one will come out and justice will prevail.
I just feel it with a certainty.
I dont feel that way about most of them.

I have to be honest, I am losing optimism. I know we believe we know who done it an ran... but as I have said before, the law's langauge is rather paculiar. And jury's are faced with having to assemble evidence and face making hard judgements. IF this finally goes to trial, I hope the evidence, circumstantial or not, proves guilt.

I wonder what percetage of case in the US win withoug the bodies. Anyway have access to learning that statistic?

 

[kemo]

dmvpenn,
Are you holding out on us. You suggest that there is some kind of evidence out there. From what I know, there is nothing but a not so nice ex-husband with a pretty good alibi. He appears to have no particular motive except for being the "ex-husband". Apparently, some folks have come forward with "information" but this happens anytime there is a large reward or a lot of media attention. Has any of disapearance of a loved one is far worse than a death because of the lack of closure and the "cloud of suspician" that can hang over the victims and others connected to the case. I have seen other situations where sites that are set up to help "solve" a crime are manipulated to point suspicion in a particular direction. I fear this is happening here.

The ex-wife of an aqaintance of mine was murdered. He was never charged but rumours, mostly from his ex-wife's family ruined his business, underminded his relationship with his children and pretty much forced the whole town to take sides.
After 15 years, DNA revealed that she was a victim of a still at large serial killer.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I wonder what percetage of case in the US win withoug the bodies. Anyway have access to learning that statistic?

I'll try to do a web search to see if I can find something on this but I don't know off-hand. I do know that prosecutors would obviously much rather have a body but at the same time, more and more are being prosecuted and prosecuted successfully. One such case is Jessica O'Grady. Her case is here on WS. Two more currently being prosecuted without bodies (also here on WS) are Brooke Wilberger and Debbie Hawk. In those cases, though, LE does have physical evidence and in Brooke's case, witness testimony.

 

[dmvpenn]

well see and that is critical. I am not saying there is NO evidence. There surely is motive, there surely are aspects of the dots that prove poop stinks when you smell it. But, we need a few humans to admit knowlege to clear up any uncertainty. It is almost better to wait then to bring it to trial and not have a prosecution. Still, after 3 plus years, 100k reward, that is some serious clamming up.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Still, after 3 plus years, 100k reward, that is some serious clamming up.

And that would indicate to me two possibilities:

1) No one knows anything or

2) The people responsible are so powerful, intimidating and/or dangerous that even though someone might know something, no one is willing to speak.

 

[kline]

I played the CD yesterday and kept replaying...darkness on the edge of down.

I love them all but thats the album that introduced me to Bruce so will always be my favorite.

 

[kline]

well see and that is critical. I am not saying there is NO evidence. There surely is motive, there surely are aspects of the dots that prove poop stinks when you smell it. But, we need a few humans to admit knowlege to clear up any uncertainty. It is almost better to wait then to bring it to trial and not have a prosecution. Still, after 3 plus years, 100k reward, that is some serious clamming up.

Thats where the Rub is,its one thing to know something in your gut another to get an indictment.
No bodies has got to be a real sticking point for any prosecuter.
You can see why waiting for someone to talk would appear to be the more attractive option perhaps.
One of the most incomprehensible things about this case to me is the sheer amount of planing before hand to absolutely disappear two people and a truck.It seems like it would almost have to require more then one person.
And if you just want someone out of the way for whatever reason and have the means to have others do your bidding why not just make it appear to be a botched car jacking/robbery?
And why the truck?
Would it have been that big of a forensic problem for someone? I cant think of single other reason.
I didnt know them DMV, but for pete's sake what could either Danielle or Richard have possibly done to anybody to warrant an operation like that?
It just doesnt make sense at all.
It seems like someone would have to have some extreme emotional juice towards one or both of them to set something like this in motion much less what had to be an enormous amount of preparation.
Another thing if I was going to clip Danielle I sure would find a time when she wasnt with someone like Richard who looked like he could handle himself.
Im sure youve went over everyone of these questions a million times yourself.
Its sure a maddening mystery as well as a tragedy.
But nonetheless,unless this mastermind had the witherall to kill everyone involved with the dissappearence(which seems unlikely) someone knows and someone is going to find themselves in a jam down the road where info about this case may look like a good bargaining chip.
Right now perhaps it may just be a case of"That Reward Money will do me no good if Im dead or I have to spend it on attourneys to keep out of the joint for my involvement." It could well be that the only ones with any knowledge are those with the most to lose if it comes out.
But that could change.Thats what im hoping for.
Stay strong DMV.Were always here when you get tired of waiting for progress.
P.s. have you ever heard Bruces' live version of 'Trapped'?I love that one too

 

[kemo]

Kline, Your obsevations pretty much dovetails with mine although our conclusions may differ. This would be one convaluted professional "hit". Way too complex, particularly making the truck disappear. That little touch seems to add so much risk and expense while serving no purpose.

A second thing to consider is that, if this was a "hit" it had to have occured between the time they left the bar and the time they reached the bridge because the camera did not record then crossing either bridge. It is possible that someone "staged" an accident and abducted them when they stopped to exchange insurance info, but on the street of a big city, after midnight, with little traffic but high level of police patrol? It would not have been done there.

This leaves an abduction at the piont they got to the parked truck. Think of what it would take to abduct two people including a big guy like Richard. Two people with big guns clearly displayed perhaps; but it would cause a scene. Then, after they delt with victims, they would have to return to the scene of the crime and retrieve the truck and deal with it. (why not just leave it there?) The obvious way to do it would have been to just gun them down on the street and make it look like a random street crime.

I agree with you that if this is a hit, the truck is the weak link. I can't see any way of getting rid of the truck without bringing in other guys with no particular stake in the murder; no stake that wouldn't be worth $100K.

I still think there is a body of water near some highway in the greater Philly area that holds the answer to this mystery.

P.S. I am operating on the assumption that they did not cross the river to NJ. Their truck would certainly stand out on a secrity camera. What I have read suggests the LE assumes they did not cross the bridge. What about EAZY-PASS (or what ever it is call out there)? Richard commuted every day to NJ so he must have had one. Is there a toll gate eastbound on those bridges?.That should settle the issue.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

It is possible that someone "staged" an accident and abducted them when they stopped to exchange insurance info, but on the street of a big city, after midnight, with little traffic but high level of police patrol? It would not have been done there.

I lived in the city for 26 years and have visited there so many times since moving that I can't even count. There are many, many, many, many times that I've driven the streets of Philadelphia, after midnight, without ever seeing a single police car. It is far more usual to see no police cars than to see one, at least in my experiences in the city. So I'm in complete disagreement on the "high level of police patrol". I've found the complete opposite to be true.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I agree with you that if this is a hit, the truck is the weak link. I can't see any way of getting rid of the truck without bringing in other guys with no particular stake in the murder; no stake that wouldn't be worth $100K.

I think that this would completely depend on who committed the crime and the crowd with whom they run. Organized crime, for example, would have the resources and connections to make something like this happen.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

What I have read suggests the LE assumes they did not cross the bridge. What about EAZY-PASS (or what ever it is call out there)? Richard commuted every day to NJ so he must have had one. Is there a toll gate eastbound on those bridges?.That should settle the issue.

I would certainly hope (and believe) that the EZ Pass possibility has been investigated years ago. Regardless, we can't assume that Richard "must have had one". Even if it seems logical, it simply can't be assumed so I'm thinking that LE would have looked into this long ago.

 

[dmvpenn]

I love trapped KLINE. One of my favs.


I have been over those questions a million times.
there are crazies out there. The permuatations on the motives of different characters is endless. and I am too tired to write another word tonight.

 

[dmvpenn]

I would certainly hope (and believe) that the EZ Pass possibility has been investigated years ago. Regardless, we can't assume that Richard "must have had one". Even if it seems logical, it simply can't be assumed so I'm thinking that LE would have looked into this long ago.

The speculation is he crossed the bridge. But what do the Feds know?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I'm so sorry for your frustration, DMV. I can never possibly imagine that anguish that you've been experiencing for the past 3 years or the anguish that you all continue to experience on a daily basis. I send you my love and my prayers and hope that it is enough to even slightly brighten even the smallest moment of a day here and there to know that many of us are here with you, sticking it out as long as need be.

 

[fmw63]

And that would indicate to me two possibilities:

1) No one knows anything or

2) The people responsible are so powerful, intimidating and/or dangerous that even though someone might know something, no one is willing to speak.

My guess is that there are so few people who DO know something, that if anything gets out, the other(s) will know who squealed.:chicken:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

That's a very good point, fmw. That might be exactly what the problem is.

Philadelphia and the surrounding region is no stranger to organized crime. The longer this case goes on with no one coming forward, the more I'm convinced that they're involved.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

And I am not sure why you think this thread and the information on it can solve the case. I keep asking that one with no one really making it clear how.

I don't know any statistics at all but I suspect that LE does read message boards when they hit dead ends during investigations. There's always the chance that someone might mention something that LE never thought of or knew about and the chance that someone directly involved with the crime, the suspect or the victims will post and perhaps slip with information that might be helpful to LE.

Does anyone know of any examples of cases that were at least pointed in a new direction from information obtained on message boards? (From LE's perspective, I mean.)

 

[dmvpenn]

Dont blame you abit
You could go round and round forever the variations of'What coulda happened' are infinite.
Im still confident we'll know what did happen exactly someday.
FWIW I wouldnt debate with anyone anyway,the Feds said they see it as murder for hire. What more does anyone need?
You dont have to defend your position to anyone DMV.
Besides I would be willing to bet your POI and the Fed's are the same person.
I just thought of another lesser known favorite of mine:'Downbound Train'
Probably my favorite track on 'Born In The USA'and probably the only one that wasnt a hit single.Shows what I know.

time will tell...
did you watch the bruce vidio on Richies website?

 

[fran]

I don't know any statistics at all but I suspect that LE does read message boards when they hit dead ends during investigations. There's always the chance that someone might mention something that LE never thought of or knew about and the chance that someone directly involved with the crime, the suspect or the victims will post and perhaps slip with information that might be helpful to LE.

Does anyone know of any examples of cases that were at least pointed in a new direction from information obtained on message boards? (From LE's perspective, I mean.)

During the trial for Danielle VanDam's killer, a message board poster brought a matter to the attention of the pros that ended up being a key piece of evidence that helped convict the murderer. Up to that point, the evidence was being used by the pros, but the defense came up with a 'reasonable' explanation for one of the victim's hair's being where it was located.

There was evidence of Danielle being present in the perps motor home. The defense claimed something about the perp had caught some neighbor kids in the vehicle previously, so a strand of Danielle's hair located in the motor home, could have been from her presence previously. However, it was earlier stated that Danielle had had her hair cut just that day or the day before. The poster mentioned they should measure the length of the hair. IF it was the longer, then it was not from when Danielle disappeared.

The hair turned out to be the length Danielle had just had it cut to. This meant Danielle was in the perp's motor home the very night she was kidnapped, raped, and murdered.

Convicted of first degree murder, presently on DR in California, David Westerfield.

There was also information posted on the internet that was helpful to the pros of Scott Peterson. It's a long story, but the two posters responsible for the information were called to Modesto as witnesses (they took relevant pictures of cement bags (like I said, long story)). The two posters ended up not having to actually testify as there was a conference in the judge's chambers with the witnesses and the pros and defense (Mark Geragos). With the proof of the pictures, the pros decided not to call the two witnesses as the defense agreed to stipulate the items into (pros) evidence. Those pictures were the {proof} needed to show the defense explanation of the cement debicle, NOT reasonable.

Convicted of first and second degree murder, presently on DR in California, Scott Peterson.

JMHO
fran

 

[dmvpenn]

Interesting!