GUILTY PA - Woman raped on train as bystanders record, Philadelphia, 13 Oct 2021

[Lyanna]

Doubtful, unless someone took active/knowing steps to, say, assist in restraining the victim. There’s no duty to intervene or even report it, statutorily or otherwise, to my knowledge. JMO.

Ugh - there should be some way to charge them.

 

[mickey2942]

RSBM
But would you have taken your phone out to take video? I'm hoping you would have called the police, maybe even after getting off the train

Definitely, we would have called 911. And, I would add, that while this seems to be an isolated incident, there has been an escalation in violence in many areas over the last 18 months. It has made us decide that leisure travel is really not something we plan to do much any longer.

 

[Angleterre]

I know Knox ... I was almost physically ill when I read it. How can they sleep at night?

This is despicable and the rapist needs to be caught ASAP and incarcerated but in addition those who stood by and did nothing to intervene but invaded her privacy by recording this , need to be identified and charged with assisting an offender or even at a push, joint enterprise! I have no words - what has happened to our society? I grieve for what standards, common decency and respect are now lost ……

 

[PhoebeTries]

Definitely, we would have called 911. And, I would add, that while this seems to be an isolated incident, there has been an escalation in violence in many areas over the last 18 months. It has made us decide that leisure travel is really not something we plan to do much any longer.

I understand that 100%, as sad as it is. I really can't blame anyone for not intervening. We've had local official TV campaigns telling us to not intervene but call the police. You never know if the perp is carrying a weapon and you're their next victim.
But to read this torture was going on for forty minutes and emergency services were not contacted is baffling.

 

[PrairieWind]

Could they be charged with accessory or aiding and abetting?

I don't know what they could be charged with. Videoing a sex act without permission? IDK. Or sharing that video perhaps. But they will just claim they did it for evidence.

 

[PrairieWind]

Hardly surprising, it is almost impossible to get someone deported.

As for why no one intervened, if I had been on that train, with my disabled spouse, my primary goal is safety for him, and myself. At my age, I couldn't have done much, except probably get attacked as well. Sadly. And, I think that the current situation in our society, is that the entire situation could have been turned around, with me as a "Karen", attacking a man on the train. CYA.

I don't think anyone would expect elderly or disable to intervene. But I'm sure you would have called 911, which NONE of these people did. But even just yelling at the rapist, "hey you, STOP!" over and over might have gotten other people to do the same and then instigate more action. But just sitting there, staring at the floor or videoing the event, that is just pathetic. If just ONE person had done something, I bet others would have helped.

 

[Shamrock1]

Ugh - there should be some way to charge them.

Maybe for the recording, but even that gets iffy IMO.

Given the 20+ stops, I wonder if some riders thought they were witnessing a few minutes of consensual activity between “crazy homeless people” or two of the many, many heroin addicts in that area. I just can’t fathom anyone ignoring a woman in distress*, but it looks like I’m very naive to say that.

As for interfering or at least calling 911, well, we can’t even get priests, rabbis, police officers, and corrections staff to report crimes against vulnerable people - and they’re statutorily mandated to do so.

* Please no twisting of my words. I’m not suggesting the victim didn’t “do enough” or even presuming that “real” victims always scream - most of us here should know that many victims freeze.

 

[mickey2942]

Maybe for the recording, but even that gets iffy IMO.

Given the 20+ stops, I wonder if some riders thought they were witnessing a few minutes of consensual activity between “crazy homeless people” or two of the many, many heroin addicts in that area. I just can’t fathom anyone ignoring a woman in distress*, but it looks like I’m very naive to say that.

As for interfering or at least calling 911, well, we can’t even get priests, rabbis, police officers, and corrections staff to report crimes against vulnerable people - and they’re statutorily mandated to do so.

* Please no twisting of my words. I’m not suggesting the victim didn’t “do enough” or even presuming that “real” victims always scream - most of us here should know that many victims freeze.

I also wonder if the victim was disabled, my DD often took public transportation, and knew most of the people who were "regulars" on her route. I believe that they were sort of "friends" and looked out for her.

 

[PhoebeTries]

Daily Mail stated the victim had had some drinks after work and was on her way home. She said no loudly multiple times. Thankfully, the article also stated the victim doesn't have any memories of the attack (for now...). The story has been put together by watching CCTV from the train combined with the witness report of the SEPTA employee that walked in on the assault.

 

[PhoebeTries]

Also, police arrived within three minutes after being called. Three minutes. She endured 40 minutes of assault. She could have been spared so much trauma.

 

[Shamrock1]

Daily Mail stated the victim had had some drinks after work and was on her way home. She said no loudly multiple times. Thankfully, the article also stated the victim doesn't have any memories of the attack (for now...). The story has been put together by watching CCTV from the train combined with the witness report of the SEPTA employee that walked in on the assault.

I really, really hope this doesn’t turn into “well, what did she expect?!” victim-blaming circus. Every person should be able to go through her day, sober or not, without being attacked. (And someone who chooses public transportation over getting behind the wheel after a few drinks gets a high-five from me). JMO.

 

[PhoebeTries]

I really, really hope this doesn’t turn into “well, what did she expect?!” victim-blaming circus. Every person should be able to go through her day, sober or not, without being attacked. (And someone who chooses public transportation over getting behind the wheel after a few drinks gets a high-five from me). JMO.

I agree on all points you make!

 

[Armalita]

Me too Kaley. I can't even imagine standing by and not doing anything to help her.

No way on this green earth would I stand by and let something like this happen to anyone. How can the people that did sleep at night. Our society is becoming evil and this is proof. Sad

 

[PrairieWind]

Also, police arrived within three minutes after being called. Three minutes. She endured 40 minutes of assault. She could have been spared so much trauma.

Exactly!!! Police were there within minutes after they were called. Anyone of those other passengers could have saved her with just a simple 911 call.

 

[airportwoman]

I understand that 100%, as sad as it is. I really can't blame anyone for not intervening. We've had local official TV campaigns telling us to not intervene but call the police. You never know if the perp is carrying a weapon and you're their next victim.
But to read this torture was going on for forty minutes and emergency services were not contacted is baffling.

Or if there were accomplices.

I happened to hear this yesterday. It's worth a read, but even more worth a listen.

Don't just watch: How bystanders can safely intervene in a violent situation

 

[mickey2942]

Ngoy v. Doll, No. 3:18cv1584 | Casetext Search + Citator

I found his Immigration Case. Interesting, his foundation is that being held was against his "Constitional Rights". I wonder what the charges were that were deemed "minor".

 

[LadyL]

all they had to do was push an emergency button
or call 911
I'm sick to my stomach

 

[Filly]

The City of Brotherly Love.....

Brotherly shove.

 

[Filly]

It's the El. I ride it to appointments to Jeff. If I told you stuff I see in broad daylight you wouldn't believe me.

No way would I intervene. I'd get off the next stop and call 911. Meanwhile there had to be people getting on and off at different stops.

The Superintendent Of Police from Upper Darby said this poor woman is brave and helping them.

JMO nobody that took video will be arrested.

Rules of th El. Don't sit on the inside seat. Almost always sit with your back to wall or glass. Stand if you think anything is sketchy so you can jump off the next stop.

Best option is what we deem the "Leave me the F alone" seat. A single seat set back by the conductors booth.

Prayers for this young woman. It's so sad. We've all taken the El at night after being out with work friends.

Thanks for starting this thread. I wanted to, but I'm unable to link.

 

[Filly]

Exactly!!! Police were there within minutes after they were called. Anyone of those other passengers could have saved her with just a simple 911 call.

Three minutes to him getting off at 69th Street. They didn't stop the El.

If this horrific creep assaulted this poor lady for 40 minutes they had to get on at Bridge Street. The el is a quick and convenient way to get from East to West.

We have way over four hundred homicides as of now. A person a day gets shot and dies.So anyone would be cautious to intervene. All they needed was one person licensed to carry to stop that monster. Nope the people packing have dirty guns.