Packng Popcorn found in room with body

[LovelyPigeon]

The packing peanuts found in the 'wine cellar' were apparently identical to the ones found in the window well. Those were not 'brand new' but had 'aged' somewhat from exposure to the elements.

 

[BBB167893]

Right, but that still proves nothing. You've got a window well with them and a window lying open for months. Wind plays a big factor. Could have blown in any time. Not only that, but they were all shoved into the corners, not where the "intruder" supposedly came through, which he did without leaving ANY disturbance. A look at the photo confirms that, not to mention that no dirt or leaves were in the room. Lou Smit caused MAJOR disturbances when he did his presentation. THAT, above all, is what convinced me that there was no intruder.

(Ironic, isn't it?)

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Smit believes the crime scene photos show disturbance in the window well. I agree. He also believes that trace material from the window well, trace that was found in the small room a distance away, and around some corners from the broken window indicate that those items were probably moved by transference on the intruder's clothing and shoes.

When Smit and others experimented at the house, and entered the basement window to demonstrate it could easily be done, disturbance was also created in the window well.

In addition, Smit said that some of the packing peanuts clung to his clothing by static electricity when he came through the window, and that's how he theorizes the packing peanut from the window well ended up in the windowless room where JonBenét's body was found: it came in with the intruder who killed her.

"Proof" is usually in the interpretation of potential evidence, and I think "ironic" probably is also an interpretation. Smit's forensic interpretations have been invaluable in his long & successful career as a law enforcement detective.

 

[BBB167893]

Smit believes the crime scene photos show disturbance in the window well. I agree. He also believes that trace material from the window well, trace that was found in the small room a distance away, and around some corners from the broken window indicate that those items were probably moved by transference on the intruder's clothing and shoes.

When Smit and others experimented at the house, and entered the basement window to demonstrate it could easily be done, disturbance was also created in the window well.

In addition, Smit said that some of the packing peanuts clung to his clothing by static electricity when he came through the window, and that's how he theorizes the packing peanut from the window well ended up in the windowless room where JonBenét's body was found: it came in with the intruder who killed her.

"Proof" is usually in the interpretation of potential evidence, and I think "ironic" probably is also an interpretation. Smit's forensic interpretations have been invaluable in his long & successful career as a law enforcement detective.

Anyone looking at that window well can clearly see that no one came through it.

http://gemart.8m.com/ramsey/window/index.html

At a later date, Lou Smit would actually prove Thomas right when he personally climbed through the window on the Today Show as America watched him drag his butt over the same sill Thomas says proves nobody entered the house through that window. After dropping into the window well, Smit did a virtual "break-dance" getting into the position required to climb into the window. Not only did Smit prove Thomas statements about the window sill not being touched, but the crime scene photos show no evidence whatsoever of the type of disturbance Smit created with his floundering movements at the bottom of the well.

The photo below in an enlarged section showing only the window sill. Here we can really see what Thomas is talking about as the sill not only contains a large amount of dirt and debris, but in the dirt can be seen the tiny circles left by the drops from the last rain. The Ramsey murder was committed on Christmas day. The temperature was 9 degrees with patches of snow on the ground. There was no rain on the night of the crime or probably weeks before it.

Nobody left hand or foot prints in the window well like Lou Smit did when he positioned himself to go through the window.
Nobody disturbed the dirt on the window sill as they entered through the window, sliding their backside across the sill.
Nobody could possibly exit the basement by boosting themselves up from the suitcase and not disturb the dirt on the window sill.
Nobody could possibly navigate that basement without turning on the lights or using a portable light source.
The lights were not found to be on the next morning as they would have been if someone left out the window.
Neighbors reported seeing a light on in the house, but no person reported seeing the basement lights on.
The evidence is backwards. The suitcase couldn't have been used to climb in since it wouldn't have been there. And the flashlight that the intruder would have needed to find his way out was left in the kitchen.
The photos of the window well show the wind swirled the leaves and debris into the corners of the well. That same wind could have easily blown debris into the basement through the window that John Ramsey admits he broke months before the crime and never fixed.

 

[tumble]

Smit believes the crime scene photos show disturbance in the window well. I agree. He also believes that trace material from the window well, trace that was found in the small room a distance away, and around some corners from the broken window indicate that those items were probably moved by transference on the intruder's clothing and shoes.

When Smit and others experimented at the house, and entered the basement window to demonstrate it could easily be done, disturbance was also created in the window well.

In addition, Smit said that some of the packing peanuts clung to his clothing by static electricity when he came through the window, and that's how he theorizes the packing peanut from the window well ended up in the windowless room where JonBenét's body was found: it came in with the intruder who killed her.

"Proof" is usually in the interpretation of potential evidence, and I think "ironic" probably is also an interpretation. Smit's forensic interpretations have been invaluable in his long & successful career as a law enforcement detective.

What is interesting about the pieces of debris that found their way into the winecellar is that for this to have any significance the intruder would have to go straight into the winecellar.
Why would he do that?

He would ofcouse go up into the living areas first.
No debris was found up in the living quarters.

Thinking that the debris in the winecellar has any significance shows just how some think, they don't put the events together just picks and choses.

Or do you actually suggest that the popcorn and leaf were hanging on to the intruder until he finally got to the winecellar and during his activities upstairs he didn't drop one piece of it?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I don't know that the intruder would have to "go straight into the wine cellar" after entering the window. I don't know that he would "of course go up into the living areas first", either.

Smit's intruder theory includes several possibilities and plenty of time that allow for the material from the window well to be 'tracked' into the basement, dropped from shoe or clothing, then picked up again later onto shoe and/or clothing and transfered into the wine cellar.

Also, JBR was brought down into the basement, put on the floor in the 'boiler room' area near the wine cellar door, then moved into the wine cellar after she was dead. Material 'tracked in' by the intruder could have been picked up even by JBR's clothing or the blanket that eventually covered her, and deposited that way near where her body was found.

There's more than one way it could have happened.

 

[ellen13]

Well those darned things do stick to everything. After I unpack my special purchases that use those doo-dads, I find them stuck to my clothes and try to shake them off my hands.

I just hate those things. :razz:

you know whats really cool is the companies that pack the popcorn in plastic bags and then buffer the gift with the plastic filled bags around them so when you open the gift, you have these neat bags to dispose of instead of a million pieces of the popcorn. have any of you seen those??

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Anyone looking at that window well can clearly see that no one came through it.

Lou Smit and I both definitely disagree with you on that.

 

[BBB167893]

Can't help that. You can't change the picture.

 

[tumble]

I don't know that the intruder would have to "go straight into the wine cellar" after entering the window. I don't know that he would "of course go up into the living areas first", either.

Smit's intruder theory includes several possibilities and plenty of time that allow for the material from the window well to be 'tracked' into the basement, dropped from shoe or clothing, then picked up again later onto shoe and/or clothing and transfered into the wine cellar.

Also, JBR was brought down into the basement, put on the floor in the 'boiler room' area near the wine cellar door, then moved into the wine cellar after she was dead. Material 'tracked in' by the intruder could have been picked up even by JBR's clothing or the blanket that eventually covered her, and deposited that way near where her body was found.

There's more than one way it could have happened.

I mean, either there were material on the carpet before the intruder got there. In that case the tracing of material become a non issue.

If material from the window sill were supposted to end up into the wine cellar we sure would expect some debris upstairs also, woudn't we?

Some suggest he spend hours in the house. Surely saying the material traced to the winecellar and not upstairs becomes pretty weak.

 

[BBB167893]

"If material from the window sill were supposted to end up into the wine cellar we sure would expect some debris upstairs also, woudn't we?"

And there wasn't any! There was no dirt under the window!

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Why should we expect debris from the window well upstairs? It's a long way for the trace to carry on shoes and clothing, while the basement floor isn't a long way from the basement window.

OTOH, there may be debris, soil, fibers, and hair unexplained on the 1st or even 2nd floor. I don't begin to believe that we know all the trace evidence that was found.

No dirt from the window well found under the broken basement window? I don't think that's true. Certainly it's not what Smit contends: Leaves and debris: Leaves and debris from the window well were observed on the basement floor directly below the open window.

There were shards of glass from the broken window found under the window on the basement floor and on the top of the suitcase under the window. Smit believes those could have been gotten there when the intruder went through the window.

 

[azwriter]

When I was single, I had problems with a peeping tom and a "secret admirer" who used to send me letters and leave me messages on my answering machine with French phrases, so I would sleep with a hanger and can of hairpray next to my bed. I figured that AquaNet Super Hold could do some serious damage.

Shelayne, was that a wooden or wire hanger? Remember what Joan Crowford said "No more wire hangers."
Azwriter

 

[azwriter]

So true, they also blow around so easily because they are so light.

But in this case there were not only found on the basement room floor they were also found outside of the window below it and I can't quite figure how they would have been taken up and out that window if they are from the Ramseys.

Maybe, the packing popcorn outside the window didn't come directly from the popcorn in the basement. Perhaps it was part of some dumped in the trash can outside, fell on to the grown and was blown to the window well location. Happens at my house often. I put it in the recycler and somehow it ends up near the pool or in the back of the house.
Tricky little pellets they are.

 

[tumble]

Why should we expect debris from the window well upstairs? It's a long way for the trace to carry on shoes and clothing, while the basement floor isn't a long way from the basement window.
QUOTE]

It's an even longer way to the winecellar if the perp didn't go there first thing, and why would he?

 

[BBB167893]

"The housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann Pugh, is on record as stating she knew nothing about any broken window and has flatly contradicted Patsy's claim that both of them cleaned up the glass."

Maybe someone broke it that day? I mean from the inside.