Paint tote

[Holdontoyourhat]

If you are talking about the RN sample...She mixed the two because she started out writing in cursive...but they stopped her and told her not to. She didn't do that on her own...she was told how to write.

Are you kidding me? LE asked PR to write like the RN author, after she had seen the RN??

 

[Ames]

Are you kidding me? LE asked PR to write like the RN author, after she had seen the RN??

Nope, not kidding...she started out writing in cursive...and they told her to stop, because the RN wasn't written in cursive...they needed to be able to compare her handwriting. If she had of written in cursive...but, the RN wasn't written in cursive...how could they have been able to compare the two? Notice at the top of her sample RN...it says...Mr. Ramsey...in cursive..but, then it starts again, using regular letters. Isn't that called manuscript? Duhhh...I can't remember.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Nope, not kidding...she started out writing in cursive...and they told her to stop, because the RN wasn't written in cursive...they needed to be able to compare her handwriting. If she had of written in cursive...but, the RN wasn't written in cursive...how could they have been able to compare the two? Notice at the top of her sample RN...it says...Mr. Ramsey...in cursive..but, then it starts again, using regular letters. Isn't that called manuscript? Duhhh...I can't remember.

Wellll, I dont know if thats 'leading the witness'. Consider an innocent person who never stepped foot in Colorado, and never wrote in block letters. Asking that person to stop and write RN words in RN style, when they don't normally write those words that way, seems an attempt to manufacture evidence that doesn't exist.

In other words, investigators should have asked PR to write her choice of words, and used those for comparison. Asking her to write specific words in specific ways seems like loading the dice. I'm not sure thats right.

 

[JMO8778]

Wellll, I dont know if thats 'leading the witness'. Consider an innocent person who never stepped foot in Colorado, and never wrote in block letters. Asking that person to stop and write RN words in RN style, when they don't normally write those words that way, seems an attempt to manufacture evidence that doesn't exist.

nooo...isn't that the standard way it's done? If indeed she didn't write it,then there would be no problem.

[ In other words, investigators should have asked PR to write her choice of words, and used those for comparison.

are you kidding??? in that case,she would have avoided words in the RN...and they needed a comparison.It wouldn't be very professional to let her choose the words..that's like letting a suspect choose which evidence he/she wants to be admitted into court.

Asking her to write specific words in specific ways seems like loading the dice. I'm not sure thats right.

well,if she truly couldn't write that way,then what would be the problem in asking her to try to write in similar fashion?
..but,truth is,24 out of 26 exemplars MATCHED the RN.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

nooo...isn't that the standard way it's done? If indeed she didn't write it,then there would be no problem.



are you kidding??? in that case,she would have avoided words in the RN...and they needed a comparison.It wouldn't be very professional to let her choose the words..that's like letting a suspect choose which evidence he/she wants to be admitted into court.

well,if she truly couldn't write that way,then what would be the problem in asking her to try to write in similar fashion?
..but,truth is,24 out of 26 exemplars MATCHED the RN.

If 24 of 26 exemplars matched, then why wasn't she arrested?

Besides, imagine asking a defendant to speak the words the victim heard, exactly as the victim heard them, and speak the words in the same tone the victim heard them. Have the defendant practice speaking the words the correct way. Have the defendant listen to an actual tape recording of the words. Aren't you dressing up the defendant to be guilty? Sorry, I'm not going with you on that one, you're on your own.

 

[Ames]

If 24 of 26 exemplars matched, then why wasn't she arrested?

Besides, imagine asking a defendant to speak the words the victim heard, exactly as the victim heard them, and speak the words in the same tone the victim heard them. Have the defendant practice speaking the words the correct way. Have the defendant listen to an actual tape recording of the words. Aren't you dressing up the defendant to be guilty? Sorry, I'm not going with you on that one, you're on your own.

Hold, they had to have the exact words for comparison sake. What good would it do, for her to have been able to choose the words? They had to see if she spaced them out the same way, etc. It makes sense for them to have done it this way. Like for example, in the RN...one of the words...daughter..is split into...like this...dau ghter. If Patsy was given a choice of words, she could have written ANYTHING...like..."I like to go shopping". Well, how is that going to help them compare anything??

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hold, they had to have the exact words for comparison sake. What good would it do, for her to have been able to choose the words? They had to see if she spaced them out the same way, etc. It makes sense for them to have done it this way. Like for example, in the RN...one of the words...daughter..is split into...like this...dau ghter. If Patsy was given a choice of words, she could have written ANYTHING...like..."I like to go shopping". Well, how is that going to help them compare anything??

CDE's take two different documents that already exist, and determine through handwriting analysis if their authors are the same person. Thats what they do for the courts, usually for forgery.

You're saying that only under controlled laboratory conditions where the subject is being told what to write and how to write it is the only way to make a comparison. Thats flat wrong, and I'm not surprised RDI, desperate to get PR to look guilty, is OK with that.

I'm saying the practice of controlling the actual words, style, and even the hand the subject uses to write with should be thrown out, as it amounts to loading the dice.

 

[Ames]

CDE's take two different documents that already exist, and determine through handwriting analysis if their authors are the same person. Thats what they do for the courts, usually for forgery.

You're saying that only under controlled laboratory conditions where the subject is being told what to write and how to write it is the only way to make a comparison. Thats flat wrong, and I'm not surprised RDI, desperate to get PR to look guilty, is OK with that.

I'm saying the practice of controlling the actual words, style, and even the hand the subject uses to write with should be thrown out, as it amounts to loading the dice.

So what...if she is NOT GUILTY..then who cares if its loading the dice? They asked her to write it with her left hand, just in case the RN author wrote the RN with their left hand. Hold...what good would it do to look at documents that already exist...although...they DID do that too, when it is apparent that the RN was written in disquised handwriting. They obviously needed to compare word for word...period for period....etc.

And btw..we are not talking about FORGERY here...we are talking about a crime that is FAR MORE worse. If Patsy was accused of forging a document, then YEAH..they should just accept existing documents to compare...but, this was not the case here.

 

[JMO8778]

RDI, desperate to get PR to look guilty, is OK with that.

..exactly what would any of us have to gain from being 'desperate to get PR to look guilty??' NOTHING.She did that to herself,by her words and by her actions,as well as by the forensic evidence she left behind.All WE want is justice for JB...is that bad???

I'm saying the practice of controlling the actual words, style, and even the hand the subject uses to write with should be thrown out, as it amounts to loading the dice.

why,does it reveal the truth about Patzy?
I'm going to continue to misspell her name,just to prove how easy it is to do.

 

[JMO8778]

If 24 of 26 exemplars matched, then why wasn't she arrested?

we've rehashed that one enough.are you pretending not to be able to read?

Besides, imagine asking a defendant to speak the words the victim heard, exactly as the victim heard them, and speak the words in the same tone the victim heard them. Have the defendant practice speaking the words the correct way. Have the defendant listen to an actual tape recording of the words. Aren't you dressing up the defendant to be guilty? Sorry, I'm not going with you on that one, you're on your own.

SPEAKING is different from writing...and besides,Patzy wasn't given practice writing sessions for the note.And NO,'dressing up to be guilty' is not a fact;either the suspect can or can't say the words the same way.When LE does line-ups,don't they sometimes ask the suspects to say a word or a line or two that the victim heard,just for comparison???

 

[BBB167893]

PR alluding to middle eastern terrorists is just something you're reading into the RN that isn't really there.

Whatever you say, cowboy.

I also never thought middle eastern terrorists were ever involved in a kidnapping or murder plot of JBR. I don't think the Rn comes from that part of the world, politically or educationally.

Then what's left? The IRA? Baader-Meinhof? Red Army Faction?

The odds that PR and the author of the RN would make their q's in a similar way is not known. Thats just one letter. There's 26 letters in the alphabet. As a layman, it seems to me that some of the 26 letters of two different writers are going to match while others don't. To get a match, ALL letters have to match, not 3 or 4 or 12.

Some QDEs put it as low as 10. One, I know of, anyway.

Oh, but I forgot PR used her left hand and deliberately disguised her writing, which accounts for the differences.

According to Ted Widmer, YES!

Too bad thats just a RDI claim. PR would HAVE to have written the RN left-handed to account for all the differences.

Now you're talking my language.

Wellll, I dont know if thats 'leading the witness'. Consider an innocent person who never stepped foot in Colorado, and never wrote in block letters. Asking that person to stop and write RN words in RN style, when they don't normally write those words that way, seems an attempt to manufacture evidence that doesn't exist.

In other words, investigators should have asked PR to write her choice of words, and used those for comparison. Asking her to write specific words in specific ways seems like loading the dice. I'm not sure thats right.

Unfortunately, Holdon, that IS SOP, from what I've found. That "london letter" that they had her write? Same for everyone. You can argue whether of not it's dirty pool or not. After all, handwriting analysis still isn't a science. But don't give us a bunch of dog-doo about how it's a big plot to snare an innocent patsy, no pun intended.

If 24 of 26 exemplars matched, then why wasn't she arrested?

We've been over that.

You're saying that only under controlled laboratory conditions where the subject is being told what to write and how to write it is the only way to make a comparison. Thats flat wrong, and I'm not surprised RDI, desperate to get PR to look guilty, is OK with that.

Give me a break!

..exactly what would any of us have to gain from being 'desperate to get PR to look guilty??' NOTHING.She did that to herself,by her words and by her actions,as well as by the forensic evidence she left behind.All WE want is justice for JB...is that bad???

You tell him! This isn't Stalin's Russia.

 

[DeeDee249]

If 24 of 26 exemplars matched, then why wasn't she arrested?

Besides, imagine asking a defendant to speak the words the victim heard, exactly as the victim heard them, and speak the words in the same tone the victim heard them. Have the defendant practice speaking the words the correct way. Have the defendant listen to an actual tape recording of the words. Aren't you dressing up the defendant to be guilty? Sorry, I'm not going with you on that one, you're on your own.

She wasn't arrested because the DA wouldn't allow it.

It is standard procedure to have ANYONE asked to give a writing sample to be matched to writing that is considered crime evidence (like a ransom note) to give that sample in the style that the evidence was written in. This wasn't just done for PR, but any suspect would be asked to do the same. Why look at a cursive sample when the RN was printed? And vice versa.

 

[Ames]

She wasn't arrested because the DA wouldn't allow it.

It is standard procedure to have ANYONE asked to give a writing sample to be matched to writing that is considered crime evidence (like a ransom note) to give that sample in the style that the evidence was written in. This wasn't just done for PR, but any suspect would be asked to do the same. Why look at a cursive sample when the RN was printed? And vice versa.

Exactly!...I have been over this with Holdon...until I am blue in the face.

 

[DeeDee249]

Exactly!...I have been over this with Holdon...until I am blue in the face.

We all have, Ames. I think he just likes to get that reaction from us.

 

[Ames]

We all have, Ames. I think he just likes to get that reaction from us.

I know. He is in a class...ALL BY HIMSELF.

 

[coloradokares]

I know. He is in a class...ALL BY HIMSELF.

What I can say is this , if we are taking a vote of being in a class All by himself I have at least 3-4 other hats Id like to toss into the ring with Holdons and vote which drove me the craziest!!:crazy:

 

[Ames]

What I can say is this , if we are taking a vote of being in a class All by himself I have at least 3-4 other hats Id like to toss into the ring with Holdons and vote which drove me the craziest!!:crazy:

LOL...you are right...how soon I forget. One of which drove ME the craziest...I am guessing it was the same one that drove you there too.

 

[DeeDee249]

Holdon is stubborn and ignores due diligence on this case, but I don't get a sense of malevolence from him. He is more like a boil on the "posterior" of the case.

 

[Ames]

Holdon is stubborn and ignores due diligence on this case, but I don't get a sense of malevolence from him. He is more like a boil on the "posterior" of the case.

LOL...yeah, I think that he is harmless. Wish someone would "POP" him though and make him go away. I get so stinking tired of going over the same thing....over and over and over.....

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Then what's left? The IRA? Baader-Meinhof? Red Army Faction?

"...small foreign faction"
"...but not the country that it serves"
"You're not the only fat cat..."
"Victory!"

These are all anti-capitalist and/or 'revolutionary' remarks. If that makes them left then they're left (if the shoe fits...).