Panorama Tonight 9pm

[gord]

Ori




Sorry about that. The bundleman or JT.

The alabi timelineas the McCanns want us to beleive stands , that is why it would be important for them to "brief" JT. The fact that GM or Wilkins did not see her or the bundle man will not change anyones mind if they beleive JT is being honest.

I see

It still begs the question why on earth JT would lie and risk all to give the Mccanns an alibi - unless they are all in it together and then we are back at the conspiracy theory that there are multiple people involved in her death - which is the only logical answer at to why JT would lie to the police and lie in front of a camera .

She does sound convincing - but that is down to the police to try and get to the bottom of this . - which unfortunatly is looking doubtfull

 

[Trino]

In response to myself (!!)- I would also like to add that even if they were friends with him it makes the whole senario even more ludicrous IMO. So not only have (Kate, gerry?) convinced 7 people to cover up a childs murder, but also the prime minister?! It sounds like the plot of a bad TV movie to me!

Agree. Maybe a couple of friends would go along with a pact, but seven people risking their careers and their lives, plus a PM, is pretty far-fetched.

But, I also have difficulty believing Madeline was abducted. No real evidence. No ransom. As for Bundleman, who would casually walk when abducting a child? And, if Murat was involved, where's the evidence to arrest him?

To summarize, what's left to believe?

 

[emery]

Agree. Maybe a couple of friends would go along with a pact, but seven people risking their careers and their lives, plus a PM, is pretty far-fetched.

But, I also have difficulty believing Madeline was abducted. No real evidence. No ransom. As for Bundleman, who would casually walk when abducting a child? And, if Murat was involved, where's the evidence to arrest him?

To summarize, what's left to believe?

I think a child abductor would walk casually, particularly if the child had been effectively subdued -- i.e., drugged, knocked unconcious. He would want to look like a father carrying his sleeping child. That would be the best way to get the child out of there without raising any suspicions.

 

[gord]

Agree. Maybe a couple of friends would go along with a pact, but seven people risking their careers and their lives, plus a PM, is pretty far-fetched.

But, I also have difficulty believing Madeline was abducted. No real evidence. No ransom. As for Bundleman, who would casually walk when abducting a child? And, if Murat was involved, where's the evidence to arrest him?

To summarize, what's left to believe?

thats the thing - if we had some real evidence then the guilty parties would be at least charged by now .

The evidence that the PJ thought they had against the Mccanns now seems to be crumbling - if it ever was there - and the abduction seems to have left even less - a sighting by Tanner - if you believe her .

The case needs a break big time - something needs to happen that will give the police a chance either way

The worst outcome is that this is just going to drag on for ever more without some closure whatever way

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Agree. Maybe a couple of friends would go along with a pact, but seven people risking their careers and their lives, plus a PM, is pretty far-fetched.

But, I also have difficulty believing Madeline was abducted. No real evidence. No ransom. As for Bundleman, who would casually walk when abducting a child? And, if Murat was involved, where's the evidence to arrest him?

To summarize, what's left to believe?

EXACTLLY!, and as Gord says, on the main road...which was lit well enough for JT to tell what color the "pajamas" where...(not to mention the bundlemans clothes). If I where a kidnapper, I'd take dark alleys and side streets to escape, (or better yet, a get away car that was stolen, then ditched later)

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I think a child abductor would walk casually, particularly if the child had been effectively subdued -- i.e., drugged, knocked unconcious. He would want to look like a father carrying his sleeping child. That would be the best way to get the child out of there without raising any suspicions.

That's an interesting thought. According to the Tapas 9 they where checking their kids constantly. Gerry thinks the abductor was in the apt. last time he checked...so you think the abductor casually strolled down the main drag with Maddie, knowing her parents and their friends where checking every few minutes? What kind of lunatic kidnapper does that? If he was that careless, Maddie would have been found by morning.

 

[Rino]

I see

It still begs the question why on earth JT would lie and risk all to give the Mccanns an alibi - unless they are all in it together and then we are back at the conspiracy theory that there are multiple people involved in her death - which is the only logical answer at to why JT would lie to the police and lie in front of a camera .

She does sound convincing - but that is down to the police to try and get to the bottom of this . - which unfortunatly is looking doubtfull

Well JT lying for the McCanns does not need to implicate the rest of the Tapas 9. If she is lying I have no idea what her motive is at this point.

The rest of them have only been questioned as far as I recall about the timing of the McCanns being at dinner. And their times are not all gelling with the McCanns. If they beleive the McCanns are being truthful, why would they come forth with anything to dispute it? If indeed most of them are in the dark, too, then they have nothing to offer and no reasons to lie. I personally don't believe it is a giant Tapas 9 conspiracy, just a few - maybe, but for sure the McCanns.

As Trino said, what's left to beleive??

 

[lovebites]

Agree. Maybe a couple of friends would go along with a pact, but seven people risking their careers and their lives, plus a PM, is pretty far-fetched.

But, I also have difficulty believing Madeline was abducted. No real evidence. No ransom. As for Bundleman, who would casually walk when abducting a child? And, if Murat was involved, where's the evidence to arrest him?

To summarize, what's left to believe?

Perhaps the McCann's were responsible for Maddie's death and what JT saw outside was simply a father carrying his child.

 

[Texana]

Perhaps the McCann's were responsible for Maddie's death and what JT saw outside was simply a father carrying his child.

Bingo.

 

[gord]

Perhaps the McCann's were responsible for Maddie's death and what JT saw outside was simply a father carrying his child.

then why hasnt that father come forward - if it was a holiday maker they would have seen all the publicity

 

[Dr. Creepin]

Panorama’s ‘The Mystery of Madeleine McCann’ was not what I expected it to be, more McCann apologists savaging the Portuguese investigation. Rather, it was fairly impartial but slightly sceptical of this “badly told story, full of holes.” However, Kate and Gerry McCann’s phoney performance for the camera allows you to reach your own conclusions, regardless of what the media tries to convey and certain anomalies cannot easily be explained away.

Gerry set the scene at apartment 5A, a quiet corner, shrouded in darkness, obscured by trees, where on all the previous nights, he never encountered anyone when checking the children. So, there is no evidence that he did but if they were sedated, he wouldn’t need to check and inconsistencies in the Tapas 9 statements indicate they didn’t. Kate claims on the night of May 3rd several members of the party were “bobbing back and forward” at regular intervals.

This left a very small ‘window of opportunity’ after Gerry took his turn around 9:00pm, for the ‘Predator’ to swoop in and out unnoticed with a passive child, while her father stood outside talking to a friend. Gerry and Jeremy Wilkins did not see the abductor, but Jane Tanner insists she did, although no-one saw her. Dr. Oldfield visited the McCann’s children at 9:30pm, without going into the room and assuming all was well, returned to the bar.

By that time, the McCann’s entourage were the only holidaymakers left at the Tapas Bar, all other responsible parents had returned to the hotel. Kate said, “When you’re with a large group of friends, you’re into each other, we were having such a good time.” They were too engaged in their own interaction to observe what was going on around them. The couple believe they were being watched, unawares. Soon Gerry would be howling, “it’s a disaster!"

When Kate took her one and only turn to check her children at 10:00pm she found Madeleine was missing and “they’ve taken her!” A neighbour heard her sobbing at 10:30pm, repeating, “We’ve let her down.” It was a further ten minutes before local police were alerted. Kate’s mother was asked what state her daughter was in and after a long pause, when you expected her to say, “totally devastated or inconsolable” she commented, “Em...distressed, obviously

The McCann’s got over it quickly and their religious faith has also given them an ability to remain quite cheerful, jovial and chirpy. Well, “it’s not like there is text book about it, what to do when your daughter is abducted “ quipped Kate. No, but I’m sure she could write one sharing her experience on how not to cry or show emotion. The McCann’s could also offer advice on contacting dignitaries, launching funds or websites and organising campaigns.

Jon Corner’s video diary showed what they wanted us to see, namely, lots of footage inside the car boot which Gerry packed, wearing surgical gloves, full of posters which he proudly boasted were “made in conjunction with J.K. Rowling for distribution” on a pointless trip to Huelva, of all places. But this supposedly provides evidence they were not hiding anything. Gerry says he is desensitised to common pictures of Madeleine. He’s not the only one...

He mentioned the fact that the twins did not wake that night and it made him wonder “whether substances were used to keep them asleep” implicating the kidnapper, but since Gerry’s blog states; “Sean and Amelie did manage to squeeze in a hair cut” three weeks after the crime, that would remove any traces, so we will never know! He said, “It’s still hard to think it’s us, that it actually happened to us.” His lost daughter seems like a side issue to him.

Philomena McCann told how Kate reacted with disgust when a lawyer offered her a deal if she pleaded guilty to manslaughter. As Kate screamed, “No, no!” Philomena could hear her tone, her anger... “you could feel it.” Temper, temper Kate! Carlos Anjos says the McCann’s and their clique of friends are not assisting in the pursuit of truth and a bureaucratic delay is holding up the investigation. Will justice be done? Panorama left me a little encouraged.

 

[Barnaby]

Panorama’s ‘The Mystery of Madeleine McCann’ was not what I expected it to be, more McCann apologists savaging the Portuguese investigation. Rather, it was fairly impartial but slightly sceptical of this “badly told story, full of holes.” However, Kate and Gerry McCann’s phoney performance for the camera allows you to reach your own conclusions, regardless of what the media tries to convey and certain anomalies cannot easily be explained away.

Gerry set the scene at apartment 5A, a quiet corner, shrouded in darkness, obscured by trees, where on all the previous nights, he never encountered anyone when checking the children. So, there is no evidence that he did but if they were sedated, he wouldn’t need to check and inconsistencies in the Tapas 9 statements indicate they didn’t. Kate claims on the night of May 3rd several members of the party were “bobbing back and forward” at regular intervals.

This left a very small ‘window of opportunity’ after Gerry took his turn around 9:00pm, for the ‘Predator’ to swoop in and out unnoticed with a passive child, while her father stood outside talking to a friend. Gerry and Jeremy Wilkins did not see the abductor, but Jane Tanner insists she did, although no-one saw her. Dr. Oldfield visited the McCann’s children at 9:30pm, without going into the room and assuming all was well, returned to the bar.

By that time, the McCann’s entourage were the only holidaymakers left at the Tapas Bar, all other responsible parents had returned to the hotel. Kate said, “When you’re with a large group of friends, you’re into each other, we were having such a good time.” They were too engaged in their own interaction to observe what was going on around them. The couple believe they were being watched, unawares. Soon Gerry would be howling, “it’s a disaster!"

When Kate took her one and only turn to check her children at 10:00pm she found Madeleine was missing and “they’ve taken her!” A neighbour heard her sobbing at 10:30pm, repeating, “We’ve let her down.” It was a further ten minutes before local police were alerted. Kate’s mother was asked what state her daughter was in and after a long pause, when you expected her to say, “totally devastated or inconsolable” she commented, “Em...distressed, obviously

The McCann’s got over it quickly and their religious faith has also given them an ability to remain quite cheerful, jovial and chirpy. Well, “it’s not like there is text book about it, what to do when your daughter is abducted “ quipped Kate. No, but I’m sure she could write one sharing her experience on how not to cry or show emotion. The McCann’s could also offer advice on contacting dignitaries, launching funds or websites and organising campaigns.

Jon Corner’s video diary showed what they wanted us to see, namely, lots of footage inside the car boot which Gerry packed, wearing surgical gloves, full of posters which he proudly boasted were “made in conjunction with J.K. Rowling for distribution” on a pointless trip to Huelva, of all places. But this supposedly provides evidence they were not hiding anything. Gerry says he is desensitised to common pictures of Madeleine. He’s not the only one...

He mentioned the fact that the twins did not wake that night and it made him wonder “whether substances were used to keep them asleep” implicating the kidnapper, but since Gerry’s blog states; “Sean and Amelie did manage to squeeze in a hair cut” three weeks after the crime, that would remove any traces, so we will never know! He said, “It’s still hard to think it’s us, that it actually happened to us.” His lost daughter seems like a side issue to him.

Philomena McCann told how Kate reacted with disgust when a lawyer offered her a deal if she pleaded guilty to manslaughter. As Kate screamed, “No, no!” Philomena could hear her tone, her anger... “you could feel it.” Temper, temper Kate! Carlos Anjos says the McCann’s and their clique of friends are not assisting in the pursuit of truth and a bureaucratic delay is holding up the investigation. Will justice be done? Panorama left me a little encouraged.

OH Dr. Creepin I wish I could feel encouraged, I feel that these blaggards may just get away with it but hope that PJ have the intuition that you & I have & will pursue these vile individuals to conviction!

 

[Texana]

"Sean and Amelie managed to squeeze in a haircut" that sounds as if the twins make their own agendas! Interesting that they found time for that.

I agree, Barnaby, I still have hope. We must be realistic but at the same time, not give up hope.

 

[CaliKid]

So if Gerry was so surprised by the twins sleeping through the commotion on the 3rd and suspected the "kidnapper" might have drugged them, why did he resist suggestions to have them checked out by a doctor?

 

[Gatinho]

Gerry's remark on the Panorama programme is significant because when the allegations originally surfaced - the twins slept through the whole night of 3 May - it was said that this was perfectly normal and that they were always heavy sleepers. A lot of people backed this up by saying a lot of people could sleep through like that but it seems that he found it odd. Of course if there is no abductor then it has to be one of them.

 

[gord]

So if Gerry was so surprised by the twins sleeping through the commotion on the 3rd and suspected the "kidnapper" might have drugged them, why did he resist suggestions to have them checked out by a doctor?

I did read that they have had the twins all tested back in the Uk for any sort of drugs / long term abuse and that they were both found out to be clear

We disscussed it here at length some time ago - again it was a newspaper report I think so its accuracy is not 100%

 

[daffodil]

Yes how terrible of them getting the twins hair cut,far better they should have let it grow and grow until they resembled miniature "cousin its" from the Addams family LOL

 

[gord]

herte is the report on the twins being drug tested - it is at least attributed to their lawyer - but again is just a press report

As first reported in Daily Mail sister paper Evening Standard, her two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie have also been tested to show they were never given sedatives by Mrs McCann or her husband Gerry.


In an exclusive interview, Edward Smethurst, the lawyer coordinating the McCanns' defence, said: "Hair grows by about a centimetre a month so if you have eight centimetres of hair, you can test for drugs going back eight months.
"With the appropriate, fully-accredited experts, hair samples were taken from Sean, Amelie and Kate and the conclusion was no evidence of sedatives or drugs were found.
"There were various stories circulating that Kate might somehow be unstable and might be depressed and whatever else, but the tests demonstrate that the kind of drugs she might be on did not show up." The tests were done in September, shortly after the McCanns were named official suspects by Portuguese police.

full article here

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=495913&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

 

[Dr. Creepin]

Since I heard the PJ are being prevented from accessing the financial, medical and phone records of the McCann's and forensic results are blocked by bureaucracy, I am feeling less encouraged, more disheartened, disillusioned and sickened. It stinks of a cover-up.

 

[Texana]

I don't get the blocking of the phone records, either. If the McCanns are innocent then why not release the phone records?

If they're not sure, then why not release the phone records?