Partially Wrapped Gifts

[rashomon]

Why did Fleet White not see JonBenet when he unlatched the door that morning?

Imo FW couldn't see her because he didn't step inside the room. The windowless room was pitch black and the body lay to the left of the door.
When Fleet later watched John exclaim "Oh my God" before he had switched on the light and before he had stepped into the room, he knew instantly that something was VERY wrong.

I think JonBenet's body was already in the wine cellar before the police arrived. I can't imagine John going down there at 10 am and moving the body from another place into that room with the police aready milling about in the Ramsey home. This would have been far too risky imo.

 

[Blondieskatz]

IMO John wouldn't have ever even know about the size 12 panties if PR hadn't told him about them. How many husbands know what their wives buy as Christmas gifts, much less where they are and if they're wrapped or not. I know mine wouldn't and JR was busy with work and out of town a lot.So, common sense points us to PR as being the director of the panties.

I think that if JR had committed this crime all the staging wouldn't have been done and who knows he "probably" wouldn't have involved PR being the business man that he was and used to solving problems. :twocents:

 

[JMO8778]

trixie
Sure I try not to. Patsy is supposed to have stated in some interview that she sometimes latched the wc door and did it that xmas to hide the gifts from the children. This may be an urban legend or it may be true, Either way the childrens gifts had been opened on xmas-day, so apart from Burke's gifts what else was there to hide? That room was used as a store room nothing else, patsy stated in another interview that xmas trees etc were stored there, and hinted at another room, referred to as the back-room for her main xmas-business.

But John gets factored in here too, he is on record stating he and Patsy removed the xmas-gifts from the basement e.g.
DOI, page2:


Then there are his trips to the plane with xmas-gift, all retrieved from the basement.

Also
DOI, page2: John Ramsey gets hidden bike from Barnhill neighbor
DOI, page242: Patsy gets My Twinn doll from basement laundry area

sure,but in DOI,the R's used their book to try and account for evidence,so we don't really know who did what in retrieving the gifts.For all we know,they could have been somewhere else.or only one of them could have put the gifts under the tree.
they could just be trying to account for any of their own forensic evidence in the basement by saying they retrieved gifts from there earlier.

 

[JMO8778]

On that note,one thing I wanted to point out,(and maybe this should be in a thread of it's own),but I think it was FFJ that I was reading about 'Santa' Bill McReynolds,and I wanted to point out that,as far as "Santa" coming to pay JB a 'secret visit' after Christmas,well,it was JR who was calling himself 'Santa'.
In DOI,when he was talking about Patsy's bike,he said "and Santa had one more thing to do....".Hmm,is that a slip as to who the 'secret Santa' really was?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
some questions:

- All of JonBenet's size 4-6 underwear had a days of the week on them too. Why didn't the stager just grab a Wednesday pair from her drawer?

- And if it was John who redressed JonBenet in the size 12s, how would he know how to find them without Patsy telling him where they were kept?

- Why do you think the acute genital wound was inflicted?

rashomon,

- All of JonBenet's size 4-6 underwear had a days of the week on them too. Why didn't the stager just grab a Wednesday pair from her drawer?

If you reckon the days of the week are important to the stager then one of two possible scenarios arise:

1. The stager looked for a size 4-6 Wednesday pair failed to find a pair so settled for a size-12 Wednesday pair.

2. The stager did not want to look for a size 4-6 Wednesday pair specifically in JonBenet's bedroom/bathroom, so either found or knew about the size-12 Wednesday bloomingdales.

And if it was John who redressed JonBenet in the size 12s, how would he know how to find them without Patsy telling him where they were kept?

If they were an xmas-gift as everyone seems to think then having already been involved in playing Santa and loading the plane, I guess he might know about the size-12's. Alternately he searched some drawers and found them in his room somewhere?

Why do you think the acute genital wound was inflicted?

That depends on your theory it may be a prior sexual assault gone wrong, or staging to mask chronic molestation. But it seems counterproductive to stage a sexual assault then hide it all with urine-stained longjohns and oversized underwear thats shows the Coroner she has been wiped down.

imo that John did one part of the staging and Patsy another better explains the evidence otherwise the PDI falls apart on the size-12's and the longjohns.


.

 

[UKGuy]

On that note,one thing I wanted to point out,(and maybe this should be in a thread of it's own),but I think it was FFJ that I was reading about 'Santa' Bill McReynolds,and I wanted to point out that,as far as "Santa" coming to pay JB a 'secret visit' after Christmas,well,it was JR who was calling himself 'Santa'.
In DOI,when he was talking about Patsy's bike,he said "and Santa had one more thing to do....".Hmm,is that a slip as to who the 'secret Santa' really was?

JMO8778,
Yes good observation, that makes more sense than Bill McReynolds since how was he going to be inside the Ramsey house?

 

[UKGuy]

Imo FW couldn't see her because he didn't step inside the room. The windowless room was pitch black and the body lay to the left of the door.
When Fleet later watched John exclaim "Oh my God" before he had switched on the light and before he had stepped into the room, he knew instantly that something was VERY wrong.

I think JonBenet's body was already in the wine cellar before the police arrived. I can't imagine John going down there at 10 am and moving the body from another place into that room with the police aready milling about in the Ramsey home. This would have been far too risky imo.

rashomon,
I tend to agree with you, although its not impossible she was moved, since John vanished for a period in the morning. If JonBenet was only being moved within the basement then it is something he could do, there was no police milling around, only officer Arndt upstairs.

 

[UKGuy]

IMO John wouldn't have ever even know about the size 12 panties if PR hadn't told him about them. How many husbands know what their wives buy as Christmas gifts, much less where they are and if they're wrapped or not. I know mine wouldn't and JR was busy with work and out of town a lot.So, common sense points us to PR as being the director of the panties.

I think that if JR had committed this crime all the staging wouldn't have been done and who knows he "probably" wouldn't have involved PR being the business man that he was and used to solving problems. :twocents:

Blondieskatz,
There is no way that Patsy placed those size-12's onto JonBenet then failed to fabricate some backup story so implicating herself and her family in a homicide staging, because the size-12's told the coroner JonBenet had been wiped down, and everyone else they were staging as no intruder needs to redress the victim in clean underwear and remove the remaining pairs.

Its either John or Burke who would do this, so to hide that something illegal had taken place, a staged sexually motivated homicide does not require the vicitm to be cleaned up and redressed. Naked and visibly violated would have been perfect staging.


.

 

[UKGuy]

sure,but in DOI,the R's used their book to try and account for evidence,so we don't really know who did what in retrieving the gifts.For all we know,they could have been somewhere else.or only one of them could have put the gifts under the tree.
they could just be trying to account for any of their own forensic evidence in the basement by saying they retrieved gifts from there earlier.

JMO8778,
Well the xmas-gifts would still be in the plane, and I cannot see Patsy doing that . And either John is attempting to account for evidence or he did play Santa, both seem credible.

Not unless the missing vhs tape would show otherwise?


.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
Well the xmas-gifts would still be in the plane, and I cannot see Patsy doing that . And either John is attempting to account for evidence or he did play Santa, both seem credible.

Not unless the missing vhs tape would show otherwise?


.

I mean the Christmas morning family gifts they said they both retrieved from the basement to put under the tree...perhaps they just said they both did it,in order to account for any evidence from themselves being found down there?
The only thing I can see JR putting on the plane is the gifts that were going to MI.The size 12 underwear wouldn't have been going there.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
Yes good observation, that makes more sense than Bill McReynolds since how was he going to be inside the Ramsey house?

wasn't JR questioned about a santa suit found in the basement? I have a reason for asking,if anyone happens to know.thx.

 

[UKGuy]

wasn't JR questioned about a santa suit found in the basement? I have a reason for asking,if anyone happens to know.thx.

JMO8778,
Not certain about John but Patsy was questioned by Trip Demuth. From memory a Santa Suit was taken into evidence?

7 TRIP DEMUTH: Did you have any Santa suits?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I had Santas. I did have a
9 Santa suit. I stuffed the Santa sometimes.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Where was that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: That should have been back in
12 the Christmas room back, you know, in the shower back
13 in there.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: If you walked past the laundry
15 room, the shower to the storage room is at the end of
16 that hallway, the room it would be in.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right there would be kind of a
18 beard, but I don't know it was made out of cotton. It
19 was kind of more like synthetic.
20 TRIP DEMUTH: That was -- the Santa suit was
21 never in the window sill.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge.

.

 

[coloradokares]

wasn't JR questioned about a santa suit found in the basement? I have a reason for asking,if anyone happens to know.thx.

Yes there was a Santa Suit there and I do remember if I am correct about his being questioned regarding it. I Swear I saw a picture or rather a partial picture of it.

 

[JMO8778]

thx to both of you,and my thought is that the 'secret santa' visit was to be from JR (or,maybe it did happen???...). ...as far as JB recognizing 'santa',well...what if he didn't say anything,and it was in the dark basement? she was told ahead of time to expect a visit from 'santa'.

 

[coloradokares]

thx to both of you,and my thought is that the 'secret santa' visit was to be from JR (or,maybe it did happen???...). ...as far as JB recognizing 'santa',well...what if he didn't say anything,and it was in the dark basement? she was told ahead of time to expect a visit from 'santa'.

What I do know is I dont for one second think That Santa suit belonged to McSanta. I am pretty sure he had his own!!:waitasec:

 

[trixie]

Why did he ask if the Santa suit was ever in the window sill? Anybody ever heard anything about that?

 

[JMO8778]

What I do know is I dont for one second think That Santa suit belonged to McSanta. I am pretty sure he had his own!!:waitasec:

I totally agree.
perhaps JR let the cat out of the bag when he referred to himself as santa?

 

[JMO8778]

Why did he ask if the Santa suit was ever in the window sill? Anybody ever heard anything about that?

I don't know. odd isn't it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Why did he ask if the Santa suit was ever in the window sill? Anybody ever heard anything about that?

I never saw that before either. You know, every question Trip DeMuth asks gives something away. Asking her if the Santa suit was ever in the window sill is inferring to her that they found fibers from that Santa suit in the window sill. I had not ever heard that they did.

 

[philamena]

SNIP
It isn't surprised to see that when shown crime scene photos and asked by LE to explain the "partially wrapped" gifts in the wineceller that she would offer her explanation of what they were, why they were there and why they were "partially wrapped". Why would we believe any of it? Why believe they were BR's birthday gifts just because she said so.

:clap: :clap: :clap: