Patsy Ramsey

[BBB167893]

I’m familiar with the argument that the Ramseys used the note as some sort of distraction – look over there!

It gives them the whole world as suspects.

This explanation only makes sense if the body had been disposed of. As it is, the discovery of the body in the house turns suspicions towards the Ramseys, and the situation is worsened by the realization that the note was written in the house and with materials from the house. This explanation, on several grounds, is absurd and nonsensical. But, maybe they did it anyway; right?

Makes you wonder if the original plan was to point at an insider.

 

[BBB167893]

I bolded the part that sticks to me the most: The ransom note explains the body, and makes it look like a kidnapping gone very, very wrong. So *IF* RDI, JonBenet is killed in the home. What do they do? They can't call the police because it's obvious someone inside the home did it if she were to just up and die in the middle of the night. They have to point fingers elsewhere and make it look like an outsider. The easiest way to do this? Ransom note.

Yeah, that's the point here. Without the note, there's nothing to point outside. All you have is a dead girl in her home with sexual injuries. Ask Ron White who he would have looked at.

I don't believe the Ramsey's wanted to dispose of the body. I made another post about it here today but I'll reiterate it here as well: they wanted the body for proper burial, disposing of it in nature would rid them of this -- and expose her to elements, and could possibly be traced back to them. Plus, what if someone saw one of their cars leaving in the dead of the night?

Again, I agree.

 

[BBB167893]

Unfortunately there are no simple RDI explanations. All of them are by necessity complex,

No, not really.

 

[BBB167893]

It's been questioned why leave the note on the stairs.... I thought I've read here that the housekeeper had left them a note on the stairs before. I tried to Google for that information but couldn't find anything.

Actually, it was the housekeeper who said Patsy would leave important things (a purse was mentioned) in that spot.

 

[BBB167893]

I was sarcastic, RDI make their point that the killer in his ransom gave "motherly" advice to John to have a good rest before long trip for ransom- JB exchange. I asked them if they think motherly advice was for real , WHAT to exchange and WHO will call to direct driving ? Why killer would be so "motherly" to John about long trip and several lines below not so motherly in describing JB`s beheading ?

They , RDI, answered something about Lazarus. That the killer believed it was still possible. To revive and exchange JB for money.
I`m lost with RDI reasoning.

Lost with YOUR INTERPRETATION of it, you mean!

 

[inspector rex]

Actually, it was the housekeeper who said Patsy would leave important things (a purse was mentioned) in that spot.

I think she also said Patsy asked her for sexual advice LOL.

 

[BBB167893]

Wait a minute. The note was written after the killing, staged for distraction of the police, is this correct?

Yes, that's what the FBI told the police.

 

[BBB167893]

I think she also said Patsy asked her for sexual advice LOL.

Your point?

It tracks: the note was left in a spot where Patsy was known to leave things.

 

[Anti-K]

Like I said, he's Patient Zero, and his theory is most well-known. I guess it's a sign of progress that IDI is breaking from him. (I sure did!)



But wouldn't JB be fighting to pull the garrote away unless she'd already been knocked unconscious?



But to what purpose?

She would not struggle if the head blow came first.

BTW, it should be easy to subdue a child as long as you don’t care what harm is done in the act. THIS MAY BE GRAPHIC TO SOME _ WARNING. In the basement, knock victim to the ground, face first. Sit on victim, legs to either side. Knees over shoulders. Victim’s arms pinned beneath victim, or beneath your lower legs. Even with an alert, struggling victim beneath you, you could still create the garrote and use it.

But, in all likelihood jbr had already been rendered incapable of resistance.
.

To what purpose? The sexual assault at or near point of death? We don’t know. Opinions vary. However, we do know that the killer covered up this aspect of the crime. Perhaps even going so far as to stage it as a kidnapping.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

It gives them the whole world as suspects.



Makes you wonder if the original plan was to point at an insider.

They would know investigation into insiders would lead nowhere, so, pointing towards an insider would be tantamount to pointing at themselves as they are the ultimate insiders.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Yeah, that's the point here. Without the note, there's nothing to point outside. All you have is a dead girl in her home with sexual injuries. Ask Ron White who he would have looked at.



Again, I agree.

Except the note pointed inside because it appears to have been written in the home, and it was written with materials from the home. Indeed, several aspects of the crime point inside the home. For instance, the paint brush handle unnecessarily incorporated into the murder weapon.

Interestingly, these things pointing towards the home are also things that point away from an intruder. If a Ramsey could be inspired to commit acts hoping to point investigators away from themselves, an intruder could be likewise motivated to do the same. And, the evidence as we know it is more suggestive of the latter than the former.

Let me illustrate this: consider the paintbrush. Three pieces. Three locations (one unknown). One piece connects the murder weapon to the home via a second piece. The remainder of the cord used for the garrote is missing.

If RDI the remainder of the cord is disposed of. Why? The (if RDI) unnecessary breaking and use of the paintbrush connects the murder weapon to the house. Disposing of the remaining cord does what? Any supposed intent of forensic concern is contradicted by the paintbrush. This makes no sense. Any explanation for this will be necessarily complex.

However, if IDI, the remainder of the cord is never on site. The killer brings only what he deemed necessary and used the entire length of cord brought with him. Perhaps, the same with the tape. He uses the paintbrush handle – breaking it and leaving one piece for investigators to find – because it connects the murder weapon to the house, and therefore away from himself. This makes sense. It’s a simple explanation.

Now, consider the missing end of the paintbrush handle – the tip. Let’s assume it was use for the sexual assault. It is missing. Why is this piece missing while two other pieces are left behind?

If we consider that the sexual aspect of this crime was covered up – area wiped, victim redressed; composed, covered, kidnapping elements – then disposing of the tip becomes just another aspect of that.

The RDI explanation here is, once again, of necessity complex. For example, covering up the sexual aspect of the crime contradicts the intent of committing the sexual assault to cover up prior abuse. An IDI explanation is very simple – he wanted to cover up the sexual aspect of the crime.

I guess I got carried away with this post; sorry for the length. I have more to say – of course!!!
next post.
...

AK

 

[inspector rex]

Your point?

It tracks: the note was left in a spot where Patsy was known to leave things.

So she said. But did Patsy agree? Why would Patsy leave things on the stairs for the cleaner? Wouldn't there be more appropriate places to leave things in like the kitchen for example?

 

[Anti-K]

Yeah, that's the point here. Without the note, there's nothing to point outside. All you have is a dead girl in her home with sexual injuries. Ask Ron White who he would have looked at.



Again, I agree.

"Without the note all you have is a dead with girl with sexual injuries."

Maybe not.

I love the What If There Had Been No Note counterfactual. I know a few want us to play this out as if the crime scene would remain the same if we remove the note, but this is nonsensical. If we remove the note we remove the intent to fake a kidnapping. Gone are the wrist ligatures, gone is the tape. No more victim in the basement. No more unnecessarily created self-incriminating evidence (ransom note, note pad, pen; paint brush).

Do we still have the sexual assault at or near point of death? Maybe; but, maybe not.

If we are to realistically play out this counterfactual we have to go back to the initial incident. The point of contingency. If RDI, then that point is the head blow. This is where we start.

We have a child, victim of a massive head blow. Now what? (hint: fake an accident, call an ambulance. call your lawyers, get outta dodge)
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

No, not really.

The challenge then is to produce ONE simple RDI theory that makes sense of the evidence. ONE. Thomas didn’t do it: Kolar didn’t do it. YOU can’t do it (don’t worry, neither can anyone else).
...

AK

 

[Tricia]

The challenge then is to produce ONE simple RDI theory that makes sense of the evidence. ONE. Thomas didn’t do it: Kolar didn’t do it. YOU can’t do it (don’t worry, neither can anyone else).
...

AK

Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

 

[Anti-K]

Anti-K, this whole forum has example after example after example that an intruder did not commit this crime.

No one can show one scintilla of evidence of an intruder.

As owner, I do my best to stay out of actual discussions about a crime.

The JBR case is the one expection.

Websleuths is a leader in true crime information as well as discussion. People come here to get information. It is imperative we deal with the facts. Not fantasy.

All I ask for are facts and a logical connecting of the dots. Logic and facts.

When I get time I will be going through the forum to make sure the JonBenet Ramsey forum is being held up to the high standards just like all our other forums on Websleuths.

The days of allowing anyone to post anything because it's part of their "theory" are gone. Facts and logic. Very simple.

Well, I’d hate to be banned, but I don’t really have much control over that.

Anyway...

I was asking for one SIMPLE RDI explanation that makes sense of the evidence. Whether or not a scintilla of intruder evidence exists has nothing to do with that.

TBH, and with respect, I think that if you consider any and ALL of my posts critically you will find that I do use facts and that I do logically connect the dots.

Perhaps you wish for an RDI only forum. I respect that and actually would support and defend that – even if banned. It is your house. You make the rules. No one has to like them. I would accept a ban without anger or complaint.
...

AK

 

[icedtea4me]

They would know investigation into insiders would lead nowhere, so, pointing towards an insider would be tantamount to pointing at themselves as they are the ultimate insiders.
...

AK

Yes, they are the ultimate insiders. Being the people who they were, don't you think they'd have a deep-down need to confess?

 

[elannia]

So she said. But did Patsy agree? Why would Patsy leave things on the stairs for the cleaner? Wouldn't there be more appropriate places to leave things in like the kitchen for example?

Yes, PR admitted during interviews that SHE would leave things in the stairs for LHP(the housekeeper), like her purse for example, PR would leave it on the staircase for the housekeeper to clean it out, you can go to acandyrose and read LHP's interview about it there

 

[Tawny]

I think we may be forgetting that JR himself said "it was an inside job".

 

[inspector rex]

Yes, PR admitted during interviews that SHE would leave things in the stairs for LHP(the housekeeper), like her purse for example, PR would leave it on the staircase for the housekeeper to clean it out, you can go to acandyrose and read LHP's interview about it there

I've done a quick search of Patsy's interviews and can't find where she agreed that she left things on the spiral stairs for the housekeeper to clean out.
Can you please direct me to the correct interview?