Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

[Reader]

Just an FYI. TODAY will be interviewing Jay Paterno this am.

wm

Paterno: Late Coach's Son Talks Father's Legacy On 'The Today Show' (VIDEO)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/paterno-late-coachs-son-t_n_1228113.html

 

[Reader]

And this is what has been most disturbing to me. People are so eager to blame Paterno that it appears as if JS is getting a pass. Paterno did not found the Second Mile so that Sandusky would have access to his victims. Jerry Sandusky is the pedophile who has been abusing young boys for years, and he is by far the most to blame, and I hope we aren't losing sight of that.

Nope, no one here seems to be giving Sandusky a pass at all...I for one personally hold him responsible for all the crimes against children that he allegedly committed and sincerely hope he is convicted and goes to prison.

However, I also hold Paterno responsible for what he did or did not do to stop those crimes. Maybe he didn't found Second Mile but he allowed JS to promote it with his team, attend meetings and games with children and use the facilities after he retired. Even after 2002.

This is a two-dimensional situation.

 

[Reader]

Ed Rendell: On balance, Paterno was a fine man

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...ce__Paterno_was_a_fine_man.html#ixzz1kQR9BvFw


.........But I also wrote and still firmly believe that Joe's mistake does not negate all the good he did - for Penn State, for its football program, for college football, for so many charities like the Salvation Army, and most of all for the young men who played for him. Had he died during the Penn game, he should have been recognized there because he was a Pennsylvania icon who did so much for college sports..........

We all would want to be judged on the totality of how we lived our lives.

For me it's a clear call - Joe Paterno the coach, Joe Paterno the husband, Joe Paterno the father, Joe Paterno the mentor, the teacher and the person lived a terrific life. When his story is finally written, his mistake must be accounted for, but his balance sheet will say he was a truly fine human being.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There are lot of people who are complicit and worse than Joe Paterno, like Dottie Sandusky, Mike McQueary, The Second Mile, and public schools. I think Jerry Sandusky secretly hated Paterno for many reasons ranging from jealousy because he felt overshadowed by him.

I'd strike McQueary from the list. He was a teaching assistant at the time, without any clout and he reported it, like he was suppose to. When the guy who is head of the campus police comes to you and says everything is okay, you are suppose to believe it. Had he walked into Spanier's office in 2002, the response would have been "Mike who?"

 

[J. J. in Phila]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-faculty-plans-no-confidence-vote-on-trustees

Penn State faculty plans no-confidence vote on trustees

It failed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And this is what has been most disturbing to me. People are so eager to blame Paterno that it appears as if JS is getting a pass. Paterno did not found the Second Mile so that Sandusky would have access to his victims. Jerry Sandusky is the pedophile who has been abusing young boys for years, and he is by far the most to blame, and I hope we aren't losing sight of that.

This! I think there was a clear failure of Paterno's part, but it was not as great a failure that the failure of others. It does not absolve him, but let's keep it in perspective.

 

[BigCat]

This! I think there was a clear failure of Paterno's part, but it was not as great a failure that the failure of others. It does not absolve him, but let's keep it in perspective.

If the perspective is a narrow and legalistic one, you are correct. However, IMO, history will not be kind to Mr Paterno.

 

[Tipstaff]

It appears that the PR move regarding Paterno is to go forward as if the Sandusky situation doesn't exist.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If the perspective is a narrow and legalistic one, you are correct.

From a legal perspective, Paterno acted appropriately, according to the AG.

From a narrow perspective, had the people he reported the 2002 incident to simply preformed their legal duties, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

However, IMO, history will not be kind to Mr Paterno.

As you say that, he has gotten the praise of the former governor, his wife got a condolence call from the President of the United States, and the flags of the state fly at half mast in his honor. My judgment is probably harsher than history's will be.

 

[al66pine]

From the Huffington Post link ~8 posts upthread:

"...Speaking to Matt Lauer, Jay Paterno described his father as 'such a strong individual'
who was focused on building Penn State and making sure any victims of the sex abuse scandal received justice.
'There was never a situation where he sat around and felt bad for himself...' " [BBM]


Back in 2002 JoePa techncally fulfilled legal reqmt to report JerSan's shower 'incident' up the line.

But what action did JoePa take after that to make sure the victims received justice?
In my mind, his waiting until 2011 when he was interviewed (called to GrJury?) does not count
toward making sure the victims received justice.


Help pls, someone fill me in.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

From the Huffington Post link ~8 posts upthread:

"...Speaking to Matt Lauer, Jay Paterno described his father as 'such a strong individual'
who was focused on building Penn State and making sure any victims of the sex abuse scandal received justice.
'There was never a situation where he sat around and felt bad for himself...' " [BBM]


Back in 2002 JoePa techncally fulfilled legal reqmt to report JerSan's shower 'incident' up the line.

But what action did JoePa take after that to make sure the victims received justice?
In my mind, his waiting until 2011 when he was interviewed (called to GrJury?) does not count
toward making sure the victims received justice.


Help pls, someone fill me in.

He only knew of the 2002 incident. He turned it over to Schultz (he knew about the 1998 incident).

 

[Trident]

From a legal perspective, Paterno acted appropriately, according to the AG.

From a narrow perspective, had the people he reported the 2002 incident to simply preformed their legal duties, we wouldn't be having this conversation.




As you say that, he has gotten the praise of the former governor, his wife got a condolence call from the President of the United States, and the flags of the state fly at half mast in his honor. My judgment is probably harsher than history's will be.

I wonder what the judgment of the victims will be.

A call from the President? Flags at half mast? All this for a FOOTBALL coach. :furious: Just goes to show where our priorities lie and why this country is in such a mess. Truly, we are a civilization at sundown.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder what the judgment of the victims will be.

A call from the President? Flags at half mast? All this for a FOOTBALL coach. :furious: Just goes to show where our priorities lie and why this country is in such a mess. Truly, we are a civilization at sundown.

Paterno was more than a football coach. His name isn't on the library because he won games.

In the 2002 incident, the judgment might end up being "not guilty." That one will come down on if the jury thinks McQueary is both honest and accurate. Some of the charges are much weaker; in 2000, there are no direct witnesses, no physical evidence, and no victim.

2007 is stronger; 1998, which wasn't rape, is stronger.

 

[scapa]

And this is what has been most disturbing to me. People are so eager to blame Paterno that it appears as if JS is getting a pass. Paterno did not found the Second Mile so that Sandusky would have access to his victims. Jerry Sandusky is the pedophile who has been abusing young boys for years, and he is by far the most to blame, and I hope we aren't losing sight of that.

Agreed. And with respect to Reader's post above concerning whether the mad dog or its owner is more responsible JS is no mad dog. He is a man driven to abuse boys and without compunctions as how to satisfy that drive. We know he was cunning, manipulative and brazen and I think it is unlikely that he was EVER on Paterno's leash so far as his child-abuse went.

In fact, for JS, having to "step down" from his coaching duties was, I suspect, a blessing in disguise. More leisure time and retention of privileges meant all kinds of extra opportunities for this predator.

And the parallels to high tragedy, Greek or otherwise, are disingenuous. The tragic hero's flaw is one of character and not of circumstance, and I don't see that Paterno's hubris was the decisive factor in his not going further than he did to get JS arrested. Ignorance or impatience, maybe -- but hubris? Really? How? The flaw brings the tragic hero to her/his death/destruction, and we are horrified and sorry for him/her, but the point is not that the end invalidates the life but quite the opposite: it throws the life into uncomfortable relief.

Audiences went to tragedies to be moved, and morally improved, by the their cathartic experiences (if you believe A), or at least to appreciate the well-wrought aesthetic unities. They did not go to jeer or snipe. I too wish the guy had moved faster, further and more decisively. But even knowing as little as I do about the man and the program, I see no way in which he is prime mover in this debacle, nor do I see that he "aided and abetted" a chronic abuser. These are Sandusky's crimes, and his alone. Should JP bear some blame for his relative inaction, lack of followup and so on? Certainly. Is he "just as bad or worse than JS?" Certainly not.

scapa out

 

[StellarsJay]

If Joe wanted justice for the victims, back in mid-December, when it was possible to predict that through sickness or death he might not be able to testify at the trials, could he have made a formal statement (deposition?) where the defendant's lawyers could have asked questions and that statement be admissable to the coming trials, possibly after he was dead?
I can see why no one might have wanted to ask for this, but coldn't he have volunteered? That would mean putting the kids ahead of Curley and Schultz...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If Joe wanted justice for the victims, back in mid-December, when it was possible to predict that through sickness or death he might not be able to testify at the trials, could he have made a formal statement (deposition?) where the defendant's lawyers could have asked questions and that statement be admissable to the coming trials, possibly after he was dead?
I can see why no one might have wanted to ask for this, but coldn't he have volunteered? That would mean putting the kids ahead of Curley and Schultz...

I'm not certain that would have been admissible, or any more admissible. Also remember that his testimony only dealt with what MM told him, what he told Curley and Schultz, and what they told him. When it comes to Sandusky, I'm not sure he would have been a witness. At best, he could have testified that MM told him something, but didn't give the details.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The heresay rule in PA would permit testimony from someone who has died to be entered:

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/225/chapter8/chap8toc.html

 

[wfgodot]

Deadspin correctly takes a very good writer to task:

A Plea To Joe Posnanski: Stop Writing Mealy-Mouthed Nonsense About Joe Paterno

 

[Tipstaff]

Deadspin correctly takes a very good writer to task:

A Plea To Joe Posnanski: Stop Writing Mealy-Mouthed Nonsense About Joe Paterno

Great link and super article. TY

Pretty much sums up that the play by play is to ignore what went on at Penn State if allowed--- but the call for accountability is coming.

Within days we will begin to read more article's like this. Paterno just didn't get this information recently...he knew for more than a decade.

 

[Reader]

It appears that the PR move regarding Paterno is to go forward as if the Sandusky situation doesn't exist.

That was the reason for the Ed Rendell article I posted above....to show how the resetting of the argument has already begun....certainly not that I agree with it.